martlin
Well-Known Member
We are all sleepers, thinking about it, I quite like sleeping...
Monet,s Garden treated with homeopathy
- Thread starter pines of rome
- Start date
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
Either that or grammar correctionThe last bastion of the failed argument is always the personal insult
Marydoll
Well-Known Member
martlin
Well-Known Member
Hopefully not in homeopathic quantities, or I have gone bonkersThat'll be the lavender
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
Ahem. I'll think you'll find that it is I who am God. I was the one that pointed out that I regularly force the hand of evolution and therefore must be a god of some variety
That's exactly how I was entitled God in the first place - awkward conversation in bar in London (dragged to singles night by my best mate
)"what do you do?"
"I'm a molecular microbiologist"
"errrr, that's nice... meaning...?"
"I make mutant bacteria"
"why?"
"because i can
""ahh. So you would be God then."
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
Well said, Louise!
You do have to be alert for these infiltrators, with their low post count, and one track viewpoint.
Oh! Not that I mean you, of course.
I am sure you are an objective newbie who just happened to join, and thought you could help us out on this thread.
So, I have a very open mind (sometimes I hear the wind whistling through it) and would like you to show me some peer reviewed journal articles of RCTs that show these unbelievers that homeopathy does work.
Would you mind giving me a link? Or if you give me an author's name and a few clues, I can look it up?
Thanks
S
Lolo
Well-Known Member
This has gone from bonkers to bizarre...
I don't get it though. No one is saying homoeopathy is bad, just false. Loads of things are false and people still like them (Megan Fox, for example). It's just if it does happen to work, you need to open your mind to every other thing you've changed and then properly weigh up why things work. It's not a case of faith or anything, but research.
One thing that amuses me is when people get into similar arguments with me and then find out I'm a Christian... Oh, that amuses me. "How can you believe in science and evolution if you believe in God?". Best one was "But surely you think God will hold the bridge up?". Oh dear
I don't get it though. No one is saying homoeopathy is bad, just false. Loads of things are false and people still like them (Megan Fox, for example). It's just if it does happen to work, you need to open your mind to every other thing you've changed and then properly weigh up why things work. It's not a case of faith or anything, but research.
One thing that amuses me is when people get into similar arguments with me and then find out I'm a Christian... Oh, that amuses me. "How can you believe in science and evolution if you believe in God?". Best one was "But surely you think God will hold the bridge up?". Oh dear
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
Hi Louise140,
Welcome to HHO. Could you possibly show me a link to a study which proves homeopathy is effective and actually works. Thanks
FestiveBoomBoom
Well-Known Member
The British Homeopathic Association website states the following -
"The greater the dilution, the more potent the medicine"
Can a homeopath guru please explain to me how this is possible? How the heck can you dilute something and make it more potent? Surely this a complete contradiction and if this is the fundamental principle underpinning the entire idea behind homeopathy then there is little wonder that it's poo pooed (and that's putting it politely) by so many people.
"The greater the dilution, the more potent the medicine"
Can a homeopath guru please explain to me how this is possible? How the heck can you dilute something and make it more potent? Surely this a complete contradiction and if this is the fundamental principle underpinning the entire idea behind homeopathy then there is little wonder that it's poo pooed (and that's putting it politely) by so many people.
lq22
Well-Known Member
I am by no means a homeopathic guru, however i would think it is rather more dangerous to stand in a filled deep plunge pool than a shallow puddle
martlin
Well-Known Member
I am by no means a homeopathic guru, however i would think it is rather more dangerous to stand in a filled deep plunge pool than a shallow puddle
Not if the puddle is on a dual carriageway, it isn't
rhino
Well-Known Member
It's not the dilution per se which increases (!) the potency, it is the act of succussion, which is the process of 'activating' the 'vital energy' of the diluted substance by striking the vial against an elastic 'body' exactly 10 times.
This process is called dynamisation/potentisation.
It is not the active substance that is important anyway, as it has been proven that homeopathic remedies cannot actually contain any active ingredient. Instead, the belief is that water retains a 'memory' or 'trace' of a substance it may once have come into contact with. Despite science proving that water does not maintain its ordered structure for more than a picosecond or two.
Understand now?
No, nor do I!
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FestiveBoomBoom
Well-Known Member
It's not the dilution per se which increases (!) the potency, it is the act of succussion, which is the process of 'activating' the 'vital energy' of the diluted substance by striking the vial against an elastic 'body' exactly 10 times.
This process is called dynamisation/potentisation.
It is not the active substance that is important anyway, as it has been proven that homeopathic remedies cannot actually contain any active ingredient. Instead, the belief is that water retains a 'memory' or 'trace' of a substance it may once have come into contact with. Despite science proving that water does not maintain its ordered structure for more than a picosecond or two.
Understand now?
Even though it's late and I've had a bit too much wine, that statement might as well have been written in Chinese for all the sense it made
- of course I'm referring to the mumbo jumbo content not the way in which you presented said mumbo jumbo, which was extremely coherent considering it's a load of pap
rhino
Well-Known Member
Even though it's late and I've had a bit too much wine, that statement might as well have been written in Chinese for all the sense it made
Oh dear, I feel sorry for you, your poor little closed minded individual
Or are you a militant invading skeptical denialist, eh?
FestiveBoomBoom
Well-Known Member
Oh dear, I feel sorry for you, your poor little closed minded individual
Or are you a militant invading skeptical denialist, eh?
Rhino, I was agreeing with you! I don't believe in the concepts behind homeopathy hence stating the statement was complete mumbo jumbo!
rhino
Well-Known Member
FestiveBoomBoom
Well-Known Member
Those emoticons mess with my head! It would seem I can't interpret humour on this forum at times! I think that Scientology would have to be the 'religious' equivalent to homeopathy. Wonder of there are any dual believers!?
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
What do you do with it? Do you make it first and then find uses for it, or identify the need for mutations and then do it?
Trinity Fox
Well-Known Member
When I first saw this thread I thought oh how nice something about Monets garden, now I am scared to post.
I am not a hocus pocus hp person, however I have a friend who is who bored me to tears one night and then showed me data about people who were believers in god had a much higher survival rate in all sorts of illness.
I looked in to this a little more and even doctors do confirm this but they seem to put it down to good old human belief, the mind is very strong and this combined with alot of physical giving and care that would tie in with hp care explains improvement in these sort of patients.
People who believe in this sort of thing give more physical care attention and even spend more time with ill humans or animals and all this can help with the recovery of any animal or person.
Having had a parent who was very ill in intensive care and since a horse that needed full time intensive care and having had doctors in the case of my parent and a vet in the case of my horse both saying it was the intensive full time attentive care that had a real impact on their recovery, do you not think this is part of the recovery in these type of cases rather than the medicine the patient is receiving.
I am not a hocus pocus hp person, however I have a friend who is who bored me to tears one night and then showed me data about people who were believers in god had a much higher survival rate in all sorts of illness.
I looked in to this a little more and even doctors do confirm this but they seem to put it down to good old human belief, the mind is very strong and this combined with alot of physical giving and care that would tie in with hp care explains improvement in these sort of patients.
People who believe in this sort of thing give more physical care attention and even spend more time with ill humans or animals and all this can help with the recovery of any animal or person.
Having had a parent who was very ill in intensive care and since a horse that needed full time intensive care and having had doctors in the case of my parent and a vet in the case of my horse both saying it was the intensive full time attentive care that had a real impact on their recovery, do you not think this is part of the recovery in these type of cases rather than the medicine the patient is receiving.
rhino
Well-Known Member
Please don't be scared to post. Your opinion is every bit as valid as anyone elses
Yes, of course belief is important, that is why placebos work. The placebo effect is an incredibly STRONG effect
The attention from family, friends and even 'alternative' practitioners can make a difference, but why? Scientifically we can't prove that, but we can prove it's not down to the effect of the homeopathic remedies themselves; the effect there is purely placebo. A number of my friends choose to use homeopathic treatments. Do I think they are stupid? No, not at all, it is their choice and if they feel it helps, then it helps them, but in my opinion it is their belief that is helping, not the homeopathy itself.
Puppy
Well-Known Member
On a similar note, I've heard of people trying to treat strangles with homeopathy - and needless to say zero success
I know, I know
And of course they ended up with ******* strangles and therefore all the more horses had to be PTS. If I were someone local to them, and they'd risked my own horses' health like that, well I would have been more than furious!
Trinity Fox
Well-Known Member
I was half joking about being scared
only half though, I think it is half the belief that alt people practice and mostly the extra care that their patients are given.
Any patient that is given intensive physical attention and metal stimulation and care that even a hospital cannot give due to financial restraints helps them to recover, I know this from personal experience with a parent in a intensive care ward.
Intensive care of any kind or even if the giver thinks they are giving another type of care does it matter as long as the patient gets better.
only half though, I think it is half the belief that alt people practice and mostly the extra care that their patients are given.Any patient that is given intensive physical attention and metal stimulation and care that even a hospital cannot give due to financial restraints helps them to recover, I know this from personal experience with a parent in a intensive care ward.
Intensive care of any kind or even if the giver thinks they are giving another type of care does it matter as long as the patient gets better.
rhino
Well-Known Member
To the patient, probably not
But at the end of the day someone is making MONEY from sick people, with a 'treatment' that doesn't work, can't work. That's where it gets me...I don't blame the people who take it.
I do blame the people who still insist homeopathy 'works', i.e. has any effect other than placebo and will market it as a treatment, when they claim to have scientific proof...
I wouldn't be impressed at a doctor selling me sugar pills, it is unethical. Why is it any different for 'homeopathists'?
Jesstickle
Well-Known Member
That's exactly how I was entitled God in the first place - awkward conversation in bar in London (dragged to singles night by my best mate
"what do you do?"
"I'm a molecular microbiologist"
"errrr, that's nice... meaning...?"
"I make mutant bacteria"
"why?"
"because i can
"ahh. So you would be God then."
Ah well. We can all be gods then
I know loads of 'em. How exciting. Maybe we can get together and have some kind of party Mt Olympus stylie JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
Oh, I delete specific genes which I think may be important in the ability of the bug to cause disease - then I'd test it in disease models to see if it was less proficient than the normal version. In an ideal worldI would find a lovely weakened mutant which could be used as a vaccine. In this world... well... No comment
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
Ah well. We can all be gods then
I've heard about the sort of parties those Greek gods got up to
I'm in
Vickijay
Well-Known Member
Never seen this before, it's ace
Nope, think this one is more appropriate
[YOUTUBE]bBUc_kATGgg[/YOUTUBE]
I mega <3 tim loads!!
People are right to be sceptical on all those things as they are all rubbish!!!
What a crazy thread!!
Tinsel Trouble
Well-Known Member
Homeopathy although a pseudo-science was used for far longer and has been investigated in detail for hundreds of years.
Asprin is from the Aspen Tree- Native Americans used to eat the bark to stop headaches, Arnica is a herb which we use to treat bruising, cranberries help Urinary Tract Infections. Oranges contain vitamin C... vitamin C is used to treat colds. Devils Claw is in Buteless supplements that we feed to the horses....
I understand that vets are men of science, and the medical advances in the last few decades have been amazing- but I wouldn't rebuke homeopathy's place. I certainly wouldn't chuck a vet off the yard for using it, and I hope that Monet's Garden is able to continue a meaningful life without pain. If Homeopathy was turned to as a last resort than so beit!!
Asprin is from the Aspen Tree- Native Americans used to eat the bark to stop headaches, Arnica is a herb which we use to treat bruising, cranberries help Urinary Tract Infections. Oranges contain vitamin C... vitamin C is used to treat colds. Devils Claw is in Buteless supplements that we feed to the horses....
I understand that vets are men of science, and the medical advances in the last few decades have been amazing- but I wouldn't rebuke homeopathy's place. I certainly wouldn't chuck a vet off the yard for using it, and I hope that Monet's Garden is able to continue a meaningful life without pain. If Homeopathy was turned to as a last resort than so beit!!
martlin
Well-Known Member
That's not homeopathy though, that's natural/herbal remedies
Many modern drugs are synthetic versions of their herbal equivalent.
lq22
Well-Known Member
I hope you're prepared for rhino!
Most medicines are derived from plants hence why the destruction of rainforests is so contentious. By destroying rainforests we could be destroying plants that are present only in that area that could be used to treat/cure diseases that cause problems now or could cause problems in the future.
Vitamin C does not treat colds.
I wouldn't consider it very pain free for the bees involved in making Monet's garden