Mongol Derby

pistolpete

pistolpete

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Anyone else following the progress on Facebook? Erik Cooper is event manager and gives great little live reports several times a day. Loving it! I’d like to go to do a riding holiday out there not the Derby!
 
I am! Always been fascinated, then attended a talk for our local EGB group from a lovely couple who both completed riding together a few years ago. It sounded like a really hard challenge, including facing the sort of local food served up, sleeping in your clothes, riding while suffering from cystitis ... not for the faint hearted!
I do think that some of the photos I have seen show pony and rider combinations that don't look like happy ones. They are tough little beasties to be sure, but that doesn't mean they should be abused. I know that they are vetted etc, and only do one stage each, but even so.
 
I love it. Its a true test of horsemanship and a celebration of a marginalised culture. Might give it a go myself one day

equestrianists.com

Mongol Derby 2025 – Day 2 – The huntswoman becomes the hunted - The Equestrianists

The clock has stopped on Day 2 on the 2025 Mongol Derby, and the tension on the steppe has soared along with the mercury. Jockeys at the head of the race have been locked in a fierce battle of wills for poll position coming into Day 3, but it's Kami Bitting (KBI) who has emerged
equestrianists.com equestrianists.com

Got to make it political by dropping in that MP though @Tiddlypom , can't miss that opportunity ;)
 
No not at all, it just made me laugh that its a conversation about a great expedition in the wilderness and you dredged up some article about a random MP you don't like (I have no idea who he is)
 
It's crazy money to do that one and the gaucho derby. I hope a decent amount of money goes to those who provide the horses without who it would be impossible to do.
 
I'm really not sure the Mongol Derby showcases a marginalized culture tbh! None of the riders are Mongolian though the skilled horse wranglers and owners are. The ride is a GPS navigated one too and that's not really culturally Mongolian, nor is the tack used (though Mongolian horse folk absolutely see the benefits of western tack!). It's a rich thrill seekers challenge, set in Mongolia really. I think it's a bit similar to Himalayan mountaineering where the Sherpas have huge amounts of skill and influence but are not viewed or presented as the key players. Mongolia as a country and culture is epic, the Derby is as a sucker fish to a shark..

I used to like the idea, now I'm definitely not keen!
 
emilylou said:
ghastly

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why ghastly? none of those horses look any more unhappy than many of the ones in top class dressage, in fact most look happier. None of the bridles look harsh, the reins are relatively loose, those horses will be neck reining. Why is this worse than a lot of the stuff like showjumping and dressage that we applaud here.
 
I mean, what is the problem really? A country with a small economy and not much global exposure gets a showcase of their amazing country, culture and history, an injection of cash from a bunch of rich foreigners who want to challenge themselves and have fun, probably piquing the interest of many people in visiting the country and stimulating the tourist industry over there as a whole.
It seems very well run with stringent vet checks, weight limits, distance limits and restrictions on where you can stop for horse welfare reasons, western tack which is better for welfare and well monitored throughout.
We can debate the terrain but these horses are accustomed to it and run wild over the Mongolian mountains (yes, even the stony bits) so won’t meet anything they haven’t encountered before.

And we get to sit at home and either feel inspired or morally superior.
 
Orangina said:
I don't necessarily have a problem with the event in itself but some of the riders (mostly the men) are very clearly way beyond 20% of the horse's weight and that does bother me.
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The weight limit including all kit is 85kg (I think!) I’m not sure how that measures up in relation to the horses weight but there are solid weight restrictions the riders must meet if they are to compete.
 
emilylou said:
I mean, what is the problem really? A country with a small economy and not much global exposure gets a showcase of their amazing country, culture and history, an injection of cash from a bunch of rich foreigners who want to challenge themselves and have fun, probably piquing the interest of many people in visiting the country and stimulating the tourist industry over there as a whole.
It seems very well run with stringent vet checks, weight limits, distance limits and restrictions on where you can stop for horse welfare reasons, western tack which is better for welfare and well monitored throughout.
We can debate the terrain but these horses are accustomed to it and run wild over the Mongolian mountains (yes, even the stony bits) so won’t meet anything they haven’t encountered before.

And we get to sit at home and either feel inspired or morally superior.
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Well yes...but we have prior knowledge of how this kind of imported adventure tourism can impact on local communities and Mongolia does have an established and more ethical tourist industry that does relate directly to Mongolian culture. It's not about moral superiority at all but about trying to learn from past mistakes. The Derby is a limited event but it is not about Mongolia really and I don't think we need to engage in any kind of saviour complex - the Derby is its own circus; Mongolia is an excellent venue for it tis all. I'm not really in favour because I think it's a shame that this, rather than other good things to do with Mongolia (such as the Great Gobi and other projects) are in the media; it just seems a bit cheap and nasty to me these days though previously I was intrigued by the event.
 
emilylou said:
The weight limit including all kit is 85kg (I think!) I’m not sure how that measures up in relation to the horses weight but there are solid weight restrictions the riders must meet if they are to compete.
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That weight limit is far too heavy, that's my point. These ponies look 14.2hh at the very max. I also saw an image of a male today who i do not believe was anywhere near that weight limit never mind with the additional tack and equipment (and before anyone comments ,he was just extremely tall, not overweight but a standard built man and I truly struggle to believe he would weigh in at 85kg)

Editing to add, for an event requiring this much endurance (40km from each horse) the weight limit should be much less , we really should be moving to 15% for normal activities, perhaps less for something like this.
 
emilylou said:
I mean, what is the problem really? A country with a small economy and not much global exposure gets a showcase of their amazing country, culture and history, an injection of cash from a bunch of rich foreigners who want to challenge themselves and have fun, probably piquing the interest of many people in visiting the country and stimulating the tourist industry over there as a whole.
It seems very well run with stringent vet checks, weight limits, distance limits and restrictions on where you can stop for horse welfare reasons, western tack which is better for welfare and well monitored throughout.
We can debate the terrain but these horses are accustomed to it and run wild over the Mongolian mountains (yes, even the stony bits) so won’t meet anything they haven’t encountered before.

And we get to sit at home and either feel inspired or morally superior.
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your picture is of the gaucho derby which are Criollos. You are talking about Mongolia above. These are 2 very different breeds of horses. I know little about Mongolian horses only Criollos.

Sitting at home I don't feel morally superior I just feel very very old and very disappointed I am too old to ever be fit enough to do the gaucho derby.

Orangina said:
That weight limit is far too heavy, that's my point. These ponies look 14.2hh at the very max. I also saw an image of a male today who i do not believe was anywhere near that weight limit never mind with the additional tack and equipment (and before anyone comments ,he was just extremely tall, not overweight but a standard built man and I truly struggle to believe he would weigh in at 85kg)
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I can't speak for the Mongolian Derby but a Criollo is probably 14.2 - 15hh and weight around 475kg (give or take) 475 x 20% = 95 475 x 15% = 71
 
paddy555 said:
your picture is of the gaucho derby which are Criollos. You are talking about Mongolia above. These are 2 very different breeds of horses. I know little about Mongolian horses only Criollos.

Sitting at home I don't feel morally superior I just feel very very old and very disappointed I am too old to ever be fit enough to do the gaucho derby.


I can't speak for the Mongolian Derby but a Criollo is probably 14.2 - 15hh and weight around 475kg (give or take) 475 x 20% = 95 475 x 15% = 71
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Sorry I have no awareness of what horses they use for the gaucho Derby but that is a generous weight estimate for a 14.2hh according to all the sources I have checked, I know my own 14.3hh native only weighs 405kg.
Also posts historically on here where someone has stated their 14.2 Welsh cob (arguably most likely stockier than the Mongolian horses) weighed only 410kg on a weight bridge
 
Orangina said:
Sorry I have no awareness of what horses they use for the gaucho Derby but that is a generous weight estimate for a 14.2hh according to all the sources I have checked, I know my own 14.3hh native only weighs 405kg.
Also posts historically on here where someone has stated their 14.2 Welsh cob (arguably most likely stockier than the Mongolian horses) weighed only 410kg on a weight bridge
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I think 450/475 is probably reasonable for a Criollo. Obviously depends on the horse and stage of fitness .
I expect the Mongolian Horses weigh quite a bit less than that. I think they are a fair bit smaller.
 
I think the mongol ponies are 12-14hh but seems quite variable. Some of them look absolutely tiny, I do wonder if they have selection criteria for them (eg on height/bone) and if they don't perhaps they should because one thing I really dislike about it is images like this
2048.jpg
(Bob long 2019 winner )
Who is clearly much too big for the animal he is riding

But equally how would the mongol people react to us imposing our standards on them (albeit scientifically validated!) when I can't imagine they have anything similar.

I do also wonder about the mouthpieces on the bits, but i don't think MD is any crueller than some things horses are asked to do in the western world. I can't watch FEI dressage anymore, it is awful.(Though I will caveat this by saying I was too sh1t a rider to ever do either lol!)

But those ponies are indisputedly absolutely awesome little creatures.
 
I have a friend there who is known for her competitive nature, ( she is never unsporting or unfair on her horses!) she is a very strong character and I see she has dropped down to the Adventure event - non competitive. It must be very tough indeed!
 
The photos from the Gaucho derby look incredible, those wonderful Criollos (and the scenery); the mongol derby is the one that doens't make for 'great photos' not least because the ponies tend to be smaller, limited tack and schooling, but unfortuntely that's part of the challenge of it all isn't it?
 
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ester said:
Who are they showcasing to? Is it known about in non equestrian circles?
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I think it is. Remember seeing Conde Nest (of luxury travel fame) do a feature on it. It's up there with other bonkers adventures that people want to tick off.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
I think the mongol ponies are 12-14hh but seems quite variable. Some of them look absolutely tiny, I do wonder if they have selection criteria for them (eg on height/bone) and if they don't perhaps they should because one thing I really dislike about it is images like this
View attachment 164509
(Bob long 2019 winner )
Who is clearly much too big for the animal he is riding

But equally how would the mongol people react to us imposing our standards on them (albeit scientifically validated!) when I can't imagine they have anything similar.

I do also wonder about the mouthpieces on the bits, but i don't think MD is any crueller than some things horses are asked to do in the western world. I can't watch FEI dressage anymore, it is awful.(Though I will caveat this by saying I was too sh1t a rider to ever do either lol!)

But those ponies are indisputedly absolutely awesome little creatures.
Click to expand...
Is there even a bit in this pony’s mouth? Looks happy enough, whatever!
 
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