Monty Roberts - educated opinions needed

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Natassia

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Some of you might have seen my post about my horse from the other day, basically he's fairly timid, has been passed around quite a lot in 7 years (I've had him 3 months and have no intention of passing him on) and has some habits (generally headshy, pulling back) that I need to sort out. I really don't think the answer is to be firm with him, I don't believe in any violent methods whatsoever but I'm not a total natural horsemanship devotee either.
Its worrying me a lot because he's getting worse rather than better. For the first few weeks after I got him he was very well mannered, almost to the point of submission. But in the last 3-4 weeks he's been being naughty, especially when I put his bridle on, he's fine once I've got it on. He won't stand still when tied up for long, he is headshy to the point when sometimes I have difficulty putting his headcollar on in the stable.
So something really needs to be done, and I'm interested in Monty Roberts techniques, they seem more realistoc than parelli, but what do you all think of them?
 
I like his ideas, they are alot more gentle than the Parelli. I have been shown the join up by a pro, and I must say, I agreed with and understood all of the concepts and saw why they worked.
I say its worth a go, his methods are gentil and do not use as much force as the Parelli.
I like the Kelly Marks books too.
I would give it a go, hope this helps
Izzi
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I would say your horse is not at all timid. In fact it sounds as though he is planning on being the dominant one in your relationship.
 
(might get shot down in a minute)....but I am a MR fan, read all books, seen demos I like and agree with what I see. In training my young horse (from untouched to backed) I've combined and employed MH technique things, common sence and a firm hand (lol not literally)!! (ps, not a fan a P, but then I don't actually know much about it).
 
I've found that mostly its just the joinup bit in monty roberts method thats different, rest of its just common sence. i.e. teach horse to lead properly before trying to load it etc. I've been to demos and have a few books (none of which i've read all the way through) and i've seen it work miricles but its all about what works for you and your horse.

p.s. kelly marks was taught by monty roberts so no wonder you like them both!
 
I have read the Monty Roberts books, own the Kelly Marks books etc. I never got on with the Parelli - the "games" system just confused me. I think its mostly common sense, and a little bit of something different. I have broken in two horses and Im planning on getting another one in the next year or two to break in... I was thinking that I might train the next one using NH techniques rather than traditional, just for the experience of a different approach. Why not try it? You know what they say. if you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always got!

good luck! Just make sure that the balence of the relationship with your horse is weighted in your favour!
 
I think Monty Roberts is ace. Kelly Marks books are realy easy to read, and more importantly to use practicaly. She breaks the exercises down into managable chunks. Worked wonders on our companion pony and a scatty TB. If you are realy stuck go on the natural horsemanship page and find you nearest associate. I had one out to work with us, he was realy helpfull and not at all pushy, he is always eager to offer advice by phone or e-mail.

As others have said, a lot of it is common sense, no gimmicks or miracle cures, its just when you are having problems common sense goes out of the window
 
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I would say your horse is not at all timid. In fact it sounds as though he is planning on being the dominant one in your relationship.

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Exactly what I was about to say. The horse has figured out that the poster is a soft-touch and realises that he can get away with things; and if he continues to get away with them, he will probably get worse.

You do need to be firm with him, no I'm not talking about hitting or screaming, just by being assertive and giving him clear signals as to what you expect from him.
 
i've got a few kelly marks books and i have to say my approach to my horse has changed and she has never gone better when ridden, behaved better on the ground and our bond is brilliant. i highly reccomend them. they are just mainly common sense but really help you to see horses in a different light - if like me you're becoming disheartened and feel your ruining your horse!
 
Are you sure it's not something you're doing, OP? It's just that you say 'in the last 3-4 weeks'. Check that you're not banging the bit on his teeth, or 'annoying' him in some way. Some horses are quite tolerant with being fiddled with, but it does stand out to me that he's started doing this some time AFTER you bought him. Whatever route you choose (MR/Parelli/NH...), if it does turn out that it's you, you'll be right back at square one the moment you get home. Does everyone on the yard have the same problem/have you asked someone to watch you tack up?
 
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I would say your horse is not at all timid. In fact it sounds as though he is planning on being the dominant one in your relationship.

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Got to agree.

He may be sensative about certain things - I have one like that - but not timid.

Sticking his head in the air is evasion, not headshy-ness, I would suggest.

Firm but patient handling perhaps????
 
Don't and never will understand the concept of "sending the horse away and then join up". Why send the horse away? The horse will "join up" with you without being given the stress of making it canter round and round and round until it's so exhausted that it will agree to anything........ Someone once said the only thing a round pen is good for is growing tomatoes in it. They confuse the horse, they have no escape.
What you need is time. What your horse needs is time. There are no "quick fixes" with horses and at best that's what "horse whisperers" offer. If you want sound, clear advice ask a behavioural scientist - they will take you down the most sympathetic route and get to the root cause of your horses behaviour. The added benefit is that you're not ripped off in the process.
Behavioural scientists have the qualifications to back up what they've learnt and don't make huge profits on "demo's" and "shows" nor on videos etc.
 
You say your horse has been 'passed around'
It is going to take time for him to settle and trust you
Just be consistent but firm in your routine, the way you ask him to move over, pick up feet etc
We bought a young horse from Ireland--he was tacked up each time we visited the dealers yard, discovered he was 'ear-shy' and had to take bridle to bits for weeks to tack up, but you do get there. He is still Mr Suspicious at times but had a great competition career. So patience will be rewarded. Good luck
 
OK here's an educated opinion for you:

Monty Roberts is a very good visual training system for the owner. So many people have very bad body language and don't realise this is causing a problem.

It doesn't mean you have to follow their training systems to the letter or buy every dvd / book going.

However both parelli and MR have got things right with the ground handling. Get rid of soft flat headcollars and short ropes, their aids are unclear to the horse.

Yes its common sense, but how many so called common sense people do 'stupid things'? When loading I always used to look at the horse, but now I realise if I just walk in and don't look back the horse is much more likely to walk in behind!
 
Sorry but what you are describing definitely isn't join-up, lol! Your description of it sounds more like a power-struck eejit who thinks that by chasing a horse round a round pen until it's exhausted is what join-up is ..... well it isn't and you clearly don't know anything about join-up if this is your comprehension of it.
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It's funny really, as I'd say that Monty is one of the easiest people to understand; he clearly shows and tells how to do even simple things like join-up, and it amazes me just how many people can't even understand such a basic thing as this.
 
Couldn't have said it better myself Tia!
If itd done 'properly' it's a very useful exercise. Both MR and Parelli have positive aspects if you take what you need from them.
 
I think horse training is quite simple - for example, why does your horse not like being bridled? Why does he not stand still when tied up - and why is he headshy?
Having worked out the answer to the above, (by a process of trial and error) you can then reshape his training by positively rewarding the good behaviours (which you make easy and pleasant for him) and ignoring or if dangerous, reprimanding your horse for the undesired behaviours.
It takes a bit of time, and patience - and you do have to be consistent in your use of voice, body language, etc...but you'll get there in the end.
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Can I suggest you forget the labels and look for a good recommended trainer in your area? You might find somone who is "Monty" or "Parelli trained (in which case check their claimed qualifications), or you might just be pointed in the direction of a good horseperson who can take a look at you and your horse together.
It's not as straightforward as Monty or Parelli, there are a lot of natural-style trainer who have nothing to do with either - if that's the sort of approach you are looking for. But maybe let people know where you are and see if you can get some good first-hand recommendations.
 
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