Monty Roberts

meandmyself said:
Have you seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QujoEMaNc2U

War Horse was based on the books he wrote. :no: Here I was all the time thinking it was written by Michael Morpurgo!
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What a load of rubbish!

This is what I mean about the stories changing.

He also claimed that he was the the trainer in the Horse Whisperer but that is also rubbish.

He is out to rescue the world!
 
When someone comes out with a so called new method of training that gives good results, everyone is impressed and heaps praise on him, then there are a few problems, and people turn against him. Maybe he does get carried away with his own importance, or just maybe it's sour grapes from jealous people. We'll probably never know the truth of such things. As has been wisely said before, take what is relevant and helpful to your own personal needs, and ignore the rest. Go with your heart and not what is the 'in thing' right now, just because it's the latest fad. In my personal opinion, anything that encourages people to train their horses in a kind way, rather than being abusive or using cruel methods and gadgets, can only be a good thing
 
Superhot said:
In my personal opinion, anything that encourages people to train their horses in a kind way, rather than being abusive or using cruel methods and gadgets, can only be a good thing
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Hear, hear!

Also as has been said good horsemanship is not new or confined to MR or any horse trainer for that matter but many of us are/were not good horsemen/women we all have had to learn. There is still a lot of horse bashing instead of training going on in this world. There is something to be learned everywhere even if it's what you don't want to do.
 
His past western ridden career was fantastic, he won almost everything there was to win.

As a general horseman I think he is great, marketing/showman side of him I do not like as much.

In general he has influenced and helped a hell of a lot of people/horses for the better, so a thumbs up for me.
 
What worries me about this, is that people see join up and a dually as a magic cure for everything..

I'm sure Kelly Marks once said that join up should only need to be done once or twice with a horse, yet I've seen people doing join up 7 days a week, week in week out, sadly they don't understand the principals behind this...
 
Alyth said:
He's getting more and more ridiculous....and whoever allowed a small kid to spend months on his own in the US desert area observing horses??? I'm sure he never did this as he said!! And as for join up....yes it works but then he promptly puts a bit in the horses mouth and starts long reining him......at least Parelli takes it step by step and starts at the beginning!!!!
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I firmly believe that if you run a horse to near exhaustion in the round pen, you can do anything to it. Doesn't mean that it's good training... or any training at all.
 
fizzer said:
His past western ridden career was fantastic, he won almost everything there was to win.

As a general horseman I think he is great, marketing/showman side of him I do not like as much.

In general he has influenced and helped a hell of a lot of people/horses for the better, so a thumbs up for me.
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Says he!

At one session he stated that he had been a pro bull rider and won the World Championship more than once - that is an out and out lie. He was never on the pro circuit and word was that he never had the bottle to ride bulls.

I do like his attitude towards horses and have used Join Up many times with untrusting horses, but I will not go to his clinics to be lied to.

Where he grew up there were no wild horses and in the UK version of his book, he went out with two friends and they brought the horses back - in the US version it was different friends and the distance they would have had to have brought them was over a thousand miles.
I know these distances were covered way back before WW1 but not since as there is to much traffic on the roads.
 
do think there is a level of delusion in his history but if one horse has had a kinder and more thought provoking life because of his tales then it is all worth it there are still too many hash and bash people in the horse world including sadly those that think smacking a horse in the head with a carrot stick is appropriate. He may well be tugging on a dually but he isnt whacking it with increasing pressure around the head with a stick I have never seen him strike out at a horse. I am not a follower by the way I like to see everyones methods and chose the ones I like. I am very open minded about any scheme and training system the only ones I wouldnt have anything to do with involve sticks whacked around the head
I suffer from insomnia so have seen all the current group trainers sitting all night watching horse and country
 
The problem with MR is that he is a proven liar and fantasy plays a huge part in everything he does.

He hasn't invented anything.

I don't like how he trains.

I don't like anything about him.
 
I went to a show of his once and he is good in some ways, but a lot of it is just timing, knowing when to push and when to back off. He is no better than the old boy who used to break my parents youngsters in about 35 years ago.
 
I used to think he was great Until I took my fairly unhandled horse to one of his demos as a potential horse for him to work on (he was not chosen as he was too unhandled and the horse they did choose are their unhandled horse was anything but!). I do not like him (or his sidekick) very much now, and seeing behind the scenes defintely openned my eyes to the whole thing. I agree, smoke and mirrors. And their advice with what to do with my horse certainly would not come under the horsemanship!

However I Do use the Dually on my horse and it works but I expect any controller headcollor would, horse is smart and knows when it is in. I think as with any training methods there are bits you choose to use and bit you wouldnt use.
 
Kamikaze said:
However I Do use the Dually on my horse and it works but I expect any controller headcollor would, horse is smart and knows when it is in. I think as with any training methods there are bits you choose to use and bit you wouldnt use.
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Ditch the dually then and use your controller. :D :rolleyes:
 
Am not a fan of 'Natural horsemanship', it was dead fashionable a few years ago when I bought my cob and a lot of my fellow liveries used to spend hours and hours chasing their horses around the arena playing 'games' etc, joining up, spending a fortune on halters and stick things etc. Also, there seemed to be a lot or demonstrations around with people in cowboy hats riding their horses without tack, which seemed to be a bit pointless and quite honestly a bit boring. Their fans also seemed to treat it like another discipline - along with showjumping, eventing and dressage there is natural horsemanship!

I never claim to be an equine expert, but watching it all, its goold old fashioned common sense horsemanship, and a couple of old nagsmen I have been lucky enough to have made the acquaintance of in my short period of horse ownership have demonstrated quite admirably, that its just that! I have read MR's book though, and it was quite interesting, but apart from that, am not interested.
 
I'm not a fan of sticking lables on things, but most folk don't know what you're talking about unless you do.

'Natural Horsemanship', no such thing really, it's 'horsemanship.' Its not new, or fashionable either, its what was done before what is now termed 'traditional' which is in fact 'military', techniques were pushed by the pony club and BHS since the majority of horses and horsemen were lost in the wars.

Roberts is no advert for horsemanship of any description. What he does, whatever it is, it's not natural, nor is it very intelligent.
 
Monty came from a macho background where horses needed to be backed and ready to earn their keep quickly and I think it was this aspect that he wanted to change. He wanted people to understand the horses viewpoint.
Now, times have changed and the market is full of inexperienced horse owners with one or two horses without the knowledge that someone who works with hundreds of horses acquires along the way.

His 'sending away' method is probably one of the most abused bits of training. Novice owners without a sense of timing and being able to read the horse are the last people who should be giving it a go. There's a lot of confused and bemused horses out there.

However, if the dually saves one horse from uneducated hands grabbing a chifney, then I can forgive him a lot.

I'm not a fan of his American style of showmanship and I don't rate Kelly Marks much either, but on balance, I'm quite fond of Monty, he's a hard worker, a good horseman and a good storyteller.
 
horserider said:
Monty came from a macho background where horses needed to be backed and ready to earn their keep quickly and I think it was this aspect that he wanted to change. He wanted people to understand the horses viewpoint.
Now, times have changed and the market is full of inexperienced horse owners with one or two horses without the knowledge that someone who works with hundreds of horses acquires along the way.

His 'sending away' method is probably one of the most abused bits of training. Novice owners without a sense of timing and being able to read the horse are the last people who should be giving it a go. There's a lot of confused and bemused horses out there.

However, if the dually saves one horse from uneducated hands grabbing a chifney, then I can forgive him a lot.

I'm not a fan of his American style of showmanship and I don't rate Kelly Marks much either, but on balance, I'm quite fond of Monty, he's a hard worker, a good horseman and a good storyteller.
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/\/\/\/\/\ I agree with everything above /\/\/\/\/\
I just think if more people became fans of his, there would be a lot less bargy, or even downright dangerous horses in inexperienced hands.
He is another teacher/trainer - that's all, and someone who we could take advice from, along with many other trainers whom we can learn from.
 
Pale Rider said:
I'm not a fan of sticking lables on things, but most folk don't know what you're talking about unless you do.

'Natural Horsemanship', no such thing really, it's 'horsemanship.' Its not new, or fashionable either, its what was done before what is now termed 'traditional' which is in fact 'military', techniques were pushed by the pony club and BHS since the majority of horses and horsemen were lost in the wars.

Roberts is no advert for horsemanship of any description. What he does, whatever it is, it's not natural, nor is it very intelligent.
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Needs LIKE button.
 
The trouble with sticking labels on things is that sometimes you have to peel them off again - and we all know what a pita that can be.
 
Anyone who uses gadgets such as buckstoppers on young horses at the start of their ridden education in the name of "science" is always going to have a big question mark in my mind.
 
I went to one of his demos a couple of months ago.

It was bloody expensive for a ticket and there was a lot of merchandise there which instantly made me think it was all a marketing gimmick.

However, I watched him work with 4 horses and he did do very well with all of them, I was sceptical though with each horse wondering 'WAS that horse REALLY unhandled previous to this?!' etc, but he seemed kind and I did like the majority of the methods that I saw.

Only other thing I didn't like apart from all the merchandise was his stories and the way he told them, I found it all a bit 'yanky' and was cringing.

But overall, yes I do like him, however like a lot of people have said, a lot of it is just common sense.
 
He tells the stories and makes the audience laugh to distract them from the fact he is yanking almost constantly on the dually.
 
Ladyinred said:
He tells the stories and makes the audience laugh to distract them from the fact he is yanking almost constantly on the dually.
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agree with this - watch a video with the sound turned down, or try to "tune out" what he is saying at a demo ... without distracting the audience with his own "interpretation" of what the horse is thinking - which often makes the audience laugh - his methods are shown to be crude and not as kind as some would like to believe.
 
Not impressed with MR less so with Kelly Marks who has even less of the people skills.
He certainly has the ability to charm some people .
I do wonder when he is no longer fronting it how well it will do with KM at the helm (He is in his mid 70's after all)
I don't like the way there is a refussal to discuss methods and use of certain 'devices' buckstopper being one of them and a closing of ranks by the devotees when his methods are challenged or questioned.
Almost a 'cult' response
Not a fan of the dually or the roundpen which do nothing to work with the horse in a gentle way .
The horse has no escape in the rounpen and the dually is jabbed on the nose far too firmly for my liking.
 
horselib said:
Not impressed with MR less so with Kelly Marks who has even less of the people skills.
He certainly has the ability to charm some people .
I do wonder when he is no longer fronting it how well it will do with KM at the helm (He is in his mid 70's after all)
I don't like the way there is a refussal to discuss methods and use of certain 'devices' buckstopper being one of them and a closing of ranks by the devotees when his methods are challenged or questioned.
Almost a 'cult' response
Not a fan of the dually or the roundpen which do nothing to work with the horse in a gentle way .
The horse has no escape in the rounpen and the dually is jabbed on the nose far too firmly for my liking.
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I've seen him use the buckstopper on a horse that no one in their right mind would sit on. His argument was that if it works and stops a horse from doing the rounds of the sales or going for meat, then perhaps its worth it.
I haven't noticed a reluctance of his devotees to debate it, as I recall a couple of very good debates on forums by people who had seen it used at demo's or been helpers.

Maybe they just weren't fanatical devotees.

I suppose the question is, is it a lasting solution and if it is, is it worth it if the horse goes on to be a rideable horse and kept by its owner ?
 
Having watched with dismay someone teaching a yearling thoroughbred to load in a modern 3.5ton lorry I am horrified by the jabbing a chiffney in its mouth I would forgive MR anything if he could have prevented that it was awful.
What are you supposed to do he was a new acquisition I hope it isnt a forerunner to it now being backed and ridden in a school because it is a race bred thoroughbred. It probably came from the recent sales as it had shoes on too
 
I didn't use to agree with monty. However I built a round pen, set monty loose, & chased him around with a piece of old rope (tm). I spoke to monty in his own language, that of bull crap, & we soon achieved join up (tm). Now monty is good as gold. Even though I have to use a very expensive halter, that's actually nothing more than a glorified stallion chain. Monty used to be bargey & bad mannered, but now he is fine provided I give his head a subtle yank with his dually (tm). Nothing to do with applying pressure to his nose, it was all the magic of join up (tm).
 
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