Monty Roberts

Mule

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 October 2016
Messages
7,665
That sounds awful:(
I think the videos may have been removed from youtube. It was truly horrible. the horse was beaten on the face and IIRC also while it lay on the ground. I agree that just insisting that your way is better is likely to get peoples backs up but I have to say I understand why Monty received a lot of criticism for just sitting there watching while it unfolded.
 

Tiddlypom

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
17,949
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
The Monty of 30 years ago kept going on about how inhumane the traditional methods of breaking horses were, and how enlightened his were. It caused a lot of muttering in the audience, as over here the traditional methods, when well done, are not stressful for the horse, and certainly don’t involve violence.
 

littleshetland

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 January 2014
Messages
1,106
Location
The wild west.
I saw him a few times back in the nineties, but did feel that in this country he was preaching to the converted somewhat. As per the above post, traditional methods here in the UK, when done properly work very nicely with no cruelty or stress involved. What did bother me was the message he was sending endorsed rushing the horse. I got the impression people were going to go home, start their 3 yr olds off in the morning, and take them out for hack in the afternoon..(you get my drift!) Also, he's always claimed that he 'invented' this join up system. I remember hearing an account from a native american indian claiming that his people had been using this method for many years...which to me has a ring of truth about it.
 
Joined
3 May 2007
Messages
16,642
Location
Weathertop
the other thing that pees me off about him is how anti-lunging he is-now poor lunging is poor but then so is poor loose schooling and poor two-rein lunging. and what is lunging if not a highly stylised form of join up? with the added benefit of doing your horse good when done properly.
he reinvented the wheel for large sects of the US horse world that didnt have any horse experienced when buying (where we are at now over here) and/or were scared of handling them and want them dead broke. I am not denigrating the whole of the US equestrian world-I met many wonderful riders and horsepeople over there but has to be said, none of them were 'natural horseman' practitioners.
 

Kaylum

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 May 2010
Messages
4,711
The mule we had went for training considering nobody had handled him for years we were making good progress with him as he was a rescue. Somehow they heard about him and said they could help and retrain him (bearing in mind this was many many years ago). He went for training and then was used in one of the demos but it was one of their trainers. So he goes into the demo all 9hh of him. Puts him in the round pen, turns his back on her, kicks her in the stomach, rolls and prats about and the audience loved it. The woman could not wait to give him back.
 

TPO

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2008
Messages
7,977
Location
A ray of sunshine 🌞
That's what's always concerned me - some people go to an MR demo, them immediately think join up is an answer for everything and a shortcut to solving issues....
I was at an ROR demo and the head honcho there was telling the audience how she had been called as a professional witness for an RSPCA case. Basically the owner had been to see MR and then went home and "joined up" her horse to death... she didnt see the tells so kept circling the horse, while she had breaks, and left the horse with no food or water as it "refused" to join up before going back out to chase it some more.

That was approx 2004/5 I went to the ROR demo in Lancashire but I don't know any other details about the case.

Just shows that you cant legislate for absolutely thick as shit people and how easy it is for people to miss the tells that should be rewarded with a release
 

Annagain

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 December 2008
Messages
13,771
I went to a Monty demo locally about 25 years ago and was impressed but I've not seen him live since then. An acquaintance took her 'problem' horse as a demo horse that night. She was close to being PTS as she was so bad but after that demo - and Monty working with her the next day she never had any trouble with her again. I saw them out hacking regularly over the next 10-12 years.

I also know the rider who fell off that pony in the demo and know they worked with her for a couple of days after that night and she was far better away from all the crowds and atmosphere. From videos I've seen I think things are done a bit quickly in demos but I know there's work behind the scenes too - yes that's not entirely honest with the audience but a lot of it is done the day after the demos and a lot of it is done for the benefit of the horse.

The rider in that video, when she's not doing demos with Monty, operates as a certified MR instructor and she is excellent. It's certainly not all done that quickly in real life. She worked with a friend's horse who would not load. He's a sensitive soul and his 1st ever journey was as a 5 year old from the only home he'd ever known (leaving his mum and two half siblings behind ) to his new life 3 1/2 hours away. The whole thing traumatised him massively and the association was made with the horsebox so he would start shaking even if he just saw it. Despite owning horses for 40+ years my friend could not crack it at all and it took 3 days of working with him (no more than 40 mins a day) to get him walking on happily, with no physical pressure used at all. Whether it's hype or not there are people who genuinely need help and training to manage their horses and I've seen much worse practice in the horse world. In fact with this particular horse, my friend was using what she learned to load him at an event a couple of weeks later. He didn't go on straight away and she was letting him have a moment to process it when someone walked past and cracked him hard on the backside with a whip with no warning, sending the poor thing into a bit of a meltdown. The air was blue and I don't think that person will try that again!
 

Tiddlypom

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
17,949
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
I got the impression people were going to go home, start their 3 yr olds off in the morning, and take them out for hack in the afternoon..(you get my drift!)
Afer we got back home, the farrier told me to ‘Get on and ride it!’ Err, no, I regarded it as a one off and turned him back out til the Spring when he turned 4. That’s when the fun started, though, as I sent him away to my then trainer to be backed. For some reason, they decided that seeing as he had coped so well at the Monty session that he would be ready to get straight on without doing all of the usual preliminaries. Oops. The rider bit dust for a fortnight as the late chestnut git launched her into orbit on a regular basis. ‘He has the most violent buck of any horse we’ve ever known’ they said. To their credit, they stuck at it and he came back home pretty much fully reformed. He would only launch me once a year on average, and I kept him til he was PTS aged 25.
 

HazuraJane

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 April 2017
Messages
214
I dont find this. "Cowboys" have access to thousands of horses and many who are more or less feral. They have ample opportunity to see horse behaviour in herds first hand.

I'd pick a good "cowboy" over many of the trainers in offer these days
I didn't say 'cowboy' I said 'cowboying.' There's a difference. Cowboying refers to over-the-top insistence on submission. Apologies to any and all cowboys!!! :)
 

Mule

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 October 2016
Messages
7,665
He didn't go on straight away and she was letting him have a moment to process it when someone walked past and cracked him hard on the backside with a whip with no warning, sending the poor thing into a bit of a meltdown. The air was blue and I don't think that person will try that again!
I always think it's so weird when random people join in with loading. It's great if someone offers to help but marching in and taking over is very odd.
 

Red-1

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 February 2013
Messages
14,197
Location
Currently living a second childhood!
i think Andrew Mclean is wonderful and definitely stands out among horse trainers in this part of the world.
I agree, and his wife too, whom I had lessons from for some years. Last year I didn't as I could not make the clinic - that hurt though as I had to stump up for two lessons at £93 each, which is fair enough but it makes me reluctant to book again!!! If I had just lost half then I would have been raring to go again.

With Andrew I think you have to be a rider though, he progresses fast but within the horses' limits, but if it were a novice or nervous rider I don't think it would go so well. One clinic I watched I was glad not to be on a couple of the horses as they were doing behaviour that would have made me want to back off rather than continue. He was right, they both ended up doing really well, but I am not so sure I could have got them through it.

With my own horse my lesson with Andrew and the many lessons with Manu were fantastic.
 

eahotson

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 June 2003
Messages
3,312
Location
merseyside
that in itself is the problem. Why are ownership courses not available anymore? Horsemanship can be taught without the price tag. You don’t need a life surrounded by horses to be a horseman or to have
where are the instructors like we used to have that would say plain to your face nope not ready yet?

People are ballsy enough to go buy horses now without the slightest clue how to look after it but not ballsy enough to admit they dont have a clue what they are doing.

maybe I’m just too old school. I don’t like gimmicks and quick fixes. Spent too many years fixing those issues to be glamoured By big talk and a round pen
Where do you go for these horsemanship classes.Riding school clients are often told they are intermediate riders when they are anything but and no one teaches even quite basic stuff such as getting your horse to stand while being mounted etc.
 

Mule

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 October 2016
Messages
7,665
Where do you go for these horsemanship classes.Riding school clients are often told they are intermediate riders when they are anything but and no one teaches even quite basic stuff such as getting your horse to stand while being mounted etc.
Riding clubs sometimes organise stable management talks. I think it would be a good idea if it was possible to do a part-time BHS stage 1. It seems like something that there would be a demand for.
 

Rowreach

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 May 2007
Messages
14,405
Location
Northern Ireland
Riding clubs sometimes organise stable management talks. I think it would be a good idea if it was possible to do a part-time BHS stage 1. It seems like something that there would be a demand for.
They exist. They used to be called BHS Horse Owners' Certificates and they are now BHS Challenge Certificates - basic horse care training.
 

JFTDWS

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 November 2010
Messages
20,885
They exist. They used to be called BHS Horse Owners' Certificates and they are now BHS Challenge Certificates - basic horse care training.
Yup - my mother did one when I got my first pony as a kid. People just need the gumption to go and educate themselves so they can be responsible for their animal.
 
Top