Moral dilemma- Trainers- What would you do?

Would you use a good trainer but with poor care of their own horses?

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teddyt

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Would you use a trainer that you thought was really good, they helped you get the horse going well and improved your riding BUT you knew that at home they didnt take the best of care with their horses (i.e. dubious management)?
 
No I wouldn't. But I am person with all sorts of Morals and I do my utter best to stick to them...

How bad is bad though! Not the same way you would do things, or bad bad!!

xx
 
I probably would, unless it was really bad management. e.g. starving horses, violence towards horses, etc.. If it just wasn't up to my own standards, then I would continue to use. But there is a point where I would draw the line. If they had been convicted of some related offence in the past, if it was a long time ago and they had improved, I would still use. If it was recent, probably not.
 
I wouldn't A) from a moral point of view and B) because I believe that somewhere along the line the two things would cross over and I would be put in a position where I was unhappy about something I was being asked to do with my horse or that was being done to my horse..if that makes any sense at all!!
 
Examples of dubious management- stabled horses left for a very long time without food, dirty water, horses not turned out for months, no such thing as worming, one saddle fits all. Nothing to ring WHW about but welfare issues all the same.

But as a trainer- effective, helpful, horse improves, rider learns.
 
My instructor is also a dealer and although her horses are well fed, well ridden and healthy her standards are lower then my own. This is because she is running a business and everything she spends on the horse comes out of her profit. It is things like, I would put a bale of shavings down so i had a lovely white fluffy bed but she would only put shavings down when they really needed them. Different standards but definitely still looked after.

If my instructor didn’t feed her horses and they all looked poor and neglected then no i wouldn’t carry on using her.
 
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teddyt said:
Examples of dubious management- stabled horses left for a very long time without food, dirty water, horses not turned out for months, no such thing as worming, one saddle fits all. Nothing to ring WHW about but welfare issues all the same.

But as a trainer- effective, helpful, horse improves, rider learns.
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No way !!! why would anyone want to condone that sort of thing by giving them bussiness???
 
stabled horses left for a very long time without food: Define time. I'm happy for a horse to stand in without anything for several hours if it's a fat bloater.

dirty water, My horse prefers day old water - to fresh.

horses not turned out for months, But presumably well exercised?

no such thing as worming, Do they worm by count?

one saddle fits all. For many people this is a norm, and not necessarily and evil. It may well fit.

Do the horses look well and happy??
 
When my horse was sent to a trainer to back I was horrified when I first visited to find him standing in his own pi@@ and dirty shavings and my friend said get him out of there now. But I didn't cos the trainer was well respected and knew his stuff. I was paying a lot of money and just had a quiet word with the grooms and asked that my horse be kept cleaner and I never found him dirty again.

They may well have only cleaned him out when I visited i'll never know but none of the horses looked in a bad way. I wouldn't do it again though if I'm honest.
 
amymay said:
stabled horses left for a very long time without food: Define time. I'm happy for a horse to stand in without anything for several hours if it's a fat bloater.

dirty water, My horse prefers day old water - to fresh.

horses not turned out for months, But presumably well exercised?

no such thing as worming, Do they worm by count?

one saddle fits all. For many people this is a norm, and not necessarily and evil. It may well fit.

Do the horses look well and happy??
Click to expand...

Horses are left at 5pm and not seen to until approx 9.30 next day. So hay has often run out at midnight, hence no food for 91/2 hours. Water all gone or full of straw by the morning. No, horses not necessarily well exercised, many are youngsters and dont leave the stable for days, they dont even have a horse walker. No worm counts. The saddles do not fit! Even if the norm it doesnt make it ok imo. Some horses look ok, none look particularly great. No hat racks but most just a bit 'cra**y' and depressed looking.

I really dislike all of the above and dont want to support a business that keeps horses in such a way. But with a limited choice of decent trainers its a bit of a dilemma. I was travelling 90 mins each way to have lessons but i havnt got the time to do this on a regular basis so need to look for someone else. I dont think i am going to have lessons with him because i really care about welfare, just wondered what others opinions are.
 
teddyt said:
Horses are left at 5pm and not seen to until approx 9.30 next day. So hay has often run out at midnight, hence no food for 91/2 hours. Water all gone or full of straw by the morning. No, horses not necessarily well exercised, many are youngsters and dont leave the stable for days, they dont even have a horse walker. No worm counts. The saddles do not fit! Even if the norm it doesnt make it ok imo. Some horses look ok, none look particularly great. No hat racks but most just a bit 'cra**y' and depressed looking.

I really dislike all of the above and dont want to support a business that keeps horses in such a way. But with a limited choice of decent trainers its a bit of a dilemma. I was travelling 90 mins each way to have lessons but i havnt got the time to do this on a regular basis so need to look for someone else. I dont think i am going to have lessons with him because i really care about welfare, just wondered what others opinions are.
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In that case, no I wouldn't use them - I understand where you're comming from totally (and was just playing devils advocate).
 
Nothing you have described is criminal, but just not as we would keep our own horses. I find many "professionals" who look at their horses as working machines are not that bothered if the horse has ad lib hay (they feed it their daily allowance - if they eat it by 9pm then tough), if he kicks straw into his water then tough, no turnout for days etc etc and a lot have a 40 yr old stubben that "seems to fit everything". Describes a lot of riding schools actually.

If he were beating them on a daily basis, starving them (as in no food/water), leaving sick horses without medical attention etc then I would have stronger feelings. Otherwise I would view it as having riding lessons at most of the riding schools I have ever seen in the UK.
 
Personally I wouldn't, but then nowadays I am very specific about how the trainers work with their own horses. There are 2 in the local area that I'd use, and one of the biggest concerns of these trainers is correct day-to-day management, including saddlery, dentistry etc. to ensure that the horse can use itself to the full potential when it's ridden. I love going to watch when their trainer comes up to teach, because it turns into a fantastic 'forum', with trainers and students ending up staying all day and discussing what everyone's been doing and learning.

It's personal choice, though. If you have limited choice in trainers I can understand that you need to keep training with someone, as everything starts to go backwards if you aren't learning and being challenged- been there and done that before meeting the trainers I mentioned above.
 
The livery yard I keep my horse at has a riding school, and certainly doesn't fit the above description! The horses have to earn their keep, certainly, but they each have their own set of tack, always have access to water and food (unless great big fatties that need to go on a diet!), and aren't worked excessively. I wouldn't have lessons or keep my horse anywhere that treated their animals as described. I do appreciate that it's difficult when you have few options, but I wouldn't like to go there regularly and see the horses being kept in sub-standard conditions.
 
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