Moral dilemma - would you put down...

I would probably retire him immediately give him another few weeks enjoying a lot of hay and anything bad or he isn't usually allowed and then pts before he struggles to hold his weight and becomes sore. I would personally up his bute to his last few weeks be totally pain free.
Hard decision but don't feel your replacing him- i made this decision this time last year although my boy had been retired a year already.
Hugs to you you know what's best.
 
only you know in your heart of hearts if you feel his quality of life isn't good enough to carry on. As a vet I often have to advise people on this subject but most of them already know when the time is right and dont want their animals to suffer. As others have said, better a week too soon than a day too late. I dread making this decision for my old boy - he is 26 now, has had various ligament problems etc. He goes hacking 3 times a week still but has had a few trips this year including once with me where he went completely down on the road. I am loathe to retire him completely though as he still bounces out on his hacks and whinnies his head off when his friend goes out without him. I think he will miss going out so much he wont enjoy his life anymore :( But I'm sure that time will come at some point and then we'll have to make some tough decisions. This is definitely the hardest bit of owning these magnificent creatures. I cannot bear to see them pottering around, every step a struggle though just because we are keeping them alive so we dont have to make that hard decision. We must be honest with ourselves when they have lost that spring in their step.
 
mrussell said:
When I see him tweak himself and hobble about... or trot up the field 3/10ths lame... I think "yes, its time" and then the next day he streaking about playing with the cobs I think "no, not yet". *sigh* What an awful predicament.
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I would ask you... would you rather say goodbye knowing he still had good days amongst the bad, or when every day is a bad one?

Everyone will answer that question differently because we're all individuals.

I have never felt guilty about ending it when they still have their character and bright eyes. The only one I struggled with and still do is the one where it went too far, but that was the circumstances as opposed to me not being brave enough to make the decision.
 
I think the important thing you need to do is look at it separately from the wanting another horse issue.
I would feel bad if I PTS and felt part of the reason I had done it was because I needed the stable but that is just me. Ask yourself would you still PTS if another horse was not a prospect. If the answer is yes still then it probably time.
I am "lucky" in most of my decisions have been more clear cut the one there was more of a decision to make was my daughters pony and there I sought my vets advice as he knew the pony and had been treating him for quite a while.
 
This is such a hard and personal decision, one we all know we will have to make one day. When i put my old mare down, it was important to me that the decision wasnt taken out of my hands, ie: she couldnt get up in the field or she looked in such poor condition and that i had left it too late. I stongly agree with the previous posts ie better a day early than a day late. A friend of mine left it too late and in the end it was a very traumatic and upsetting time. The day my mare was pts she looked healthy with a shiny coat, and thats how i wanted to remember her. Tough decision, you will know what is the best thing to do..
 
DarkHorseB said:
I think the important thing you need to do is look at it separately from the wanting another horse issue.
I would feel bad if I PTS and felt part of the reason I had done it was because I needed the stable but that is just me. Ask yourself would you still PTS if another horse was not a prospect. If the answer is yes still then it probably time.
I am "lucky" in most of my decisions have been more clear cut the one there was more of a decision to make was my daughters pony and there I sought my vets advice as he knew the pony and had been treating him for quite a while.
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This - make the decision based on nothing else but what is right for this horse.

I have only ever had to make a positive decision to put one animal to sleep but I have to say once it was done I felt only relief and gladness for him that he wasnt in pain anymore.
 
if he's in ANY discomfort now (and 1/2-1 bute a day is only like an aspirin, it is not significant pain relief) then I would give him a few days or a week of extra fuss, carrots and apples, and then pts. I think it's going to be another long hard winter (after a hard summer fgs!) and if he lost condition last winter then it'll be even harder to keep it on this time.
I don't think it's got anything to do with another horse coming tbh, I think from your post it is all about THIS horse, which is how it should be.
As above, better too early...
Final clinchers for me: does he lie down (or is he reluctant to because he knows he'll struggle to get up?), if he does lie down, does he get up easily, fluidly, or with effort?
How does he walk? From behind, does he walk like a horse or like an elephant? (a friend had a very old horse who, I kid you not, walked just like an elephant. utterly bizarre to watch.)
If he is physically compromised enough that he struggles to get up, and/or his walk is adversely affected, I would be 100% content I was making the kind decision to pts while the summer sun is still warm on his back...
 
MagicMelon said:
I dont agree with that, it is of benefit to a horse to have life (unless in pain obviously). My horse has done a tendon very seriously the point its highly unlikely he'll ever be rideable again. There's no way I'll put him down unless he is in pain and cannot be a field ornament. Otherwise, IMO he has given me so much over the years I owe it to him to give him a nice life out in the field. Just because he's not rideable, doesn't mean I should kill him!

OP, really only you can make this decision. Its pointless asking for peoples opinions on here as we dont know the horse. Only you know how he looks to be feeling within himself. Im a firm believer in them telling you when its time.
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This for me. If he is happy (and only you can decide that) then why can't he have a retirement in the field?
 
Having been in this situation myself, I would have him put to sleep before the winter. Our mare was 22 we'd had her for 20 yrs. She had the morning out in the paddock then was PTS.
It is heartbreaking but better to make the decision now than wait until one day he gets down and can't get up again.
 
Thankyou all so much for your kind replies and points of view. I expected a few "selfish bleeder" replies so thankyou for being so kind.

Yes, he can be retired in the field but he needs to be in overnight as hes a sensitive soul and the last time we tried to turn him away, he colic'd repeatedly. He has been retired more or less ( going from hacking and light schooling 4 days a week in 2008 to now just managing a little trot around the lanes of up to 20 mins once a week ). He isnt sound and as I said before, has an unstable fetlock that gives out on him if he does more than amble in straightlines/stand in his stable or field shelter.

When he lies down at night he struggles to get up. Hes in a 16ft stable and he uses all of that space to haul himself up. He then stands holding a hind leg in the air for a minute or so until he bumbles forward to the door.

So yes, he could be retired to the field but my thinking is that its not going to prolong his life to do so, only his existance. I really do think that sometimes he has no life, just an existance, and I wouldnt want to watch those days getting more frequent for him.

We have had a good long look at whats happening to him and have decided to wait another month and see if things get tougher for him. If he starts to drop weight then we may have to rethink. Gosh, this is so hard... :(
 
Based on what you've said about him getting up, and then holding his leg in the air, that would decide me, 100%. I would send him to heaven, sooner much rather than later. Get someone you trust (absolutely 100% obv) to take him if you don't want to do it. It is hard... but we owe them... and tbh the relief after you've done it is so much better than the enduring dread/guilt before.... and I'm speaking as someone who had a young healthy homebred, the hope of my life, put down for a myriad different unfixable reasons. :( :( :(
 
Ditto kerilli that last post says time to go before winter and we have a thread saying something along the lines of horse cannot get up and vet called :( if I had posted that what would you be saying I should do? very hard when its your horse but I would give him the dignity of going before its an emergency cal out however hard it will be for you.
 
If the horse is happy and not in discomfort then I would keep him as a pet but saying that I have the time and room to keep a field ornament. I have one already that I would not PTS as she is happy, if you do not have the facilities to keep him happy then PTS is better than him being passed onto someone who may not treat him in the way he deserves. I would never PTS just to make room for another as I do believe that all animals have the right to live even if they are no longer fit for purpose as long as they have a good qaulity of life.
 
I let Ron go before he met the BEVA guidelines, for me i brlieved the day I found him down in the field unable to get up was a day too late.
He was not 'sound' but was pain free on bute, but he looked really well and that's how I wanted to remember him, not as a skinny, unhappy, pain ravaged horse who became a shadow of his former self.
The deciding part, the phone call to arrange and waiting for the day was the hardest part.
He went early in the morning and although I cried my eyes out for several days and am having a cry as I type this I felt relieved, for me it was the right decision and someone once gave me the best advice... Better a week too early than a day too late.
As an owner the greatest gift we can bestow on a horse is too take life away at the appropriate point.
Winter is usually horrible so why wait till quite possibly the decision is out of your hands.
Big hugs he's lucky to have you xxx
 
It seems to me that you have actually come to a sensible course of action so I'm not going to comment on that. What I would say is that when you make the decision to pts do try to organise it for that day if poss. The waiting around is SO stressful. I've had the last 2 pts by the vet and then cremated, which I know is the most expensive way of doing it but in my experience is the least stressful. They both went very peacefully with my daughter and I standing by, which although awful I found much less harrowing than having them shot. Of course if you had enough land and someone who could bury them that would be even better. I'm afraid it is never going to be anything but traumatic, but at least you know you are doing it for the right reasons. Good luck.
 
Bless you, what a tough decision.
My decision is pretty similar, my mare is not sound, she has periods when she's on 1 bute a day. When she gets up she's careful not to use her affected hindleg and then goes very short on it for a few steps, then she's better.
Summer for her is harder, she has a bit of sweet itch and prefers the winter. She holds her weight well, too well if I'm honest.... :p
She might not be quite so quick on her feet, she's not the field boss anymore but she's bright eyed and pretty determined at times....
For me the right time will be when she loses her spark, for me it's a mental issue not a physical one for her.
However, I've had her for 12 years, she's been retired for 5 1/2 years and she's wanted for nothing, so if she HAD to go tomorrow I would feel I'd done pretty well by her....
I've seen a lot of people withdraw all support from their retired horses, then not surprisingly the horses go downhill and they then put them down with a clear conscience. OP you obviously haven't done that and the flip side of that is that your horse may well have a long and reasonably comfortable retirement. You've already given him far more that many people would have, so whatever decision you make will be the right one for both of you. X
 
What a horrible time for you, I have recently been in your shoes and the personal tourment of shall I shan't I was far worst than my feelings of loss now. The relief of making the decision and my mare now not being in pain is very welcome. I miss her so much and still cry every day but I always promised her I would never keep her alive for my own reasons I would always put her welfare first, I owed her so much for being the most amazing mare that carried me round advanced events and tried so hard. I think when you can separate the personal feelings of loss and grief you will be able to make your decision, reread these threads as if they were someone else's and see how it makes you feel. Being emotionally detatched from your situation I would PTS now whilst he is not in agony and the weather is still ok, i don't think you will regret it, my thoughts are with you.
 
Leg_end said:
Very, very tough one. If you can afford to, and he is totally content being a field ornament then I would struggle to PTS. However, if he is at all unhappy and in pain then I wouldn't hesitate to PTS.
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I'm a bit of a softy and like you have my own place to keep them. I don't have a great deal of grazing but it's enough and is well managed..

It won't hurt a big horse like him to have 2 or 3 bute a day, after all, something else will prob finish him off before his liver fails due to bute..

I wouldn't PTS just yet as I would feel bad about it. However I would watch him very carefully into the winter and would PTS the minute I felt he wasn't coping. Generally after the first few weeks horses don't care if they are being ridden or not.

My retired old girl has a new 'job'. We call her the yard manager, she certainly knows how to keep us all in line!
 
The not being able to get up easily does it for me too I think. Our 27yo is out 24/7 but I try to let him in the stable most days with his rug off in winter, as he just LOVES to roll in straw - which he does with gusto and gets up no probs (our stables are 12x12). He is smaller than your boy though :)
 
kerilli said:
Based on what you've said about him getting up, and then holding his leg in the air, that would decide me, 100%. I would send him to heaven, sooner much rather than later. Get someone you trust (absolutely 100% obv) to take him if you don't want to do it. It is hard... but we owe them... and tbh the relief after you've done it is so much better than the enduring dread/guilt before.... and I'm speaking as someone who had a young healthy homebred, the hope of my life, put down for a myriad different unfixable reasons. :( :( :(
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This ^^
 
I think our main hang-up is that he has pretty much looked like this for the past 2 years. He hasnt been able to pick his left hind up normally (without it going into spasm and coming right out to the side) for the last year. So putting your finger on exactly why he cant just carry on like this is hard. I think if I saw something new about the way he is NOW, it would make it easier for me.

Yesterday I spoke to our neighbour who has known us for 2 years and she pointed out then when she moved in, we were still regularly riding the big fella and although he wasnt jumping or competing, he was still cantering out several times a week and could still canter around the school on both reins. These are things he can no longer do.

Its something we hadnt really noticed. When we look at him we see an old fella in good condition with bright eyes. We see him struggle whenever he puts strain on the left hind but generally, other than looking a bit camped under from time to time, he looks cheerful enough.

Thankyou all so much for listening to me witter on and for your lovely replies. I really dont know what to do for the best. *shakes head sadly*
 
I really don't envy you having to make this decision. My retired boy was unwell last winter and the vet was booked however he came out of the stable like a maniac that morning and jogged accross the yard so I couldn't do it! He has bounced back amazingly and is enjoying retirement with a new companion. However he really looks 100% healthy going into winter with no lameness or stiffness (retired him after numerous soundness issues and colic surgery) so I am hoping he will have a good winter. I think only you can know when its time and It doesn't sound like you are the type of person to let him suffer uneccesarily so don't force yourself to decide now .... give it some time and you will know.
 
The thing is, when you look at them every day, you just don't notice the small changes. Do you think he is enjoying life or enduring it? I think that is the crux of it.
I have a very old pony here at livery and in fact I had this conversation 2 days ago with his lovely owner. The day that bossyboots little old mare (in her 30s but looks about 15, to be fair) does not get up easily, or cannot raise a canter (she can now, easily), she'll go to heaven... but I am happy to arrange it, because I can totally understand it being far more upsetting for the owner, who is so emotionally involved...
Maybe deep down you do know that the best thing to do would be to do it sooner, but you are (totally understandably) shying away from that. Is there anyone you can trust 100% to arrange it all?
I really do feel for you, it is horrible to have hanging over you... but remember, it is hanging over YOU, not the horse, he is oblivious. His quality of life is all that matters... big hugs to you.
 
As far as I am aware you cannot bury a horse on your own land. They are classed as agricultural animals in this sense. I think you will find certain bits probably by law have to be cremated, as for sheep/cattle etc.

In fact where I live, it looked like my dog was going to have to be put down. The vet said if he was put down, he would have to be sent away for cremation, we couldnt bury him at home. Not sure if this was something the local authority had brought in, or if the vet was trying to make more money. Didnt matter in the end, as he suddenly died of natural causes, saving us the problem. He's now installed next to our other dogs!

Ets: found this article which kind of explains the above dog.
http://www.petcrematorium-petcemetery.co.uk/pet-cremation-and-burial-articles/garden-burial
 
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We wouldnt be burying at home... when his day comes, he will be put to sleep, in the back paddock, by Martins who take the body with them. I am quite lucky in that I believe that once youre dead, the body you leave behind is just that; a body. I dont think I could cope if I didnt think that.
 
I would always retire to the field as long as they are happy and pain free. My 26yo cob is basically retired, although she gets pulled out of the field to act as nanny on a short walk hack, but she won't be ridden over the winter. At the moment she's very happy and healthy and I owe it to her after all the years of happiness shes given me to give her a good retirement IMO. I am, however, very lucky that I have my own land.
 
Yes, you can definitely bury on your own land as long as they are not commercial animals e.g. a stud stallion. They also have to buried away a certain distance away from water courses. We checked with DEFRA last year when we had 2 of our horses PTS last year.
 
I don't envy you this decision at all and really feel for you. I've got a 17hh 17yo IDx who has hunted all of his working life and has all of the associated creaks of hard work (spavins, ringbone, coffin joint arthritis as well as shivers which have recently begun to worsen). He is much better in work and he's mentally still up for everything but the body can't cope with what he thinks he wants to do (which is hunt weekly!!). ATM he's enjoying a quieter life with my sharer but I suspect we'll need to re-evaluate the situation in the spring when he turns 18. I don't think he will cope well with retirement because he likes to be busy. His ringbone means he needs to be stabled when the ground is hard so he's not an ideal candidate for chucking out in a field 24/7. He's always been a v good doer but hasn't kept his condition as well as normal this summer (as it's been so cold). I usually don't rug until Nov because he's usually a hot horse but he's been rugged for weeks now.

My feeling is that when I retire mine, he'll get very stiff from lack of work and he'll end up lame if the ground is hard. We will see. Breaks my heart to have to think about it though as I adore that horse!

MR, in your position I think I would PTS before winter sets in. If he's struggling to get up and 3/10 lame on some days, that would do it for me.
 
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