More fireworks today *video* think i need some serious HELP!!

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Catherine123

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I have a nervous 10yo ISH who i have be restarting due to some huge holes in his education and some less than desirable behaviour! For the last few weeks I have been tacking him up and either lunging or long reining him and leaving his saddle on in the stable for a hour or so. He has been going well but after his reaction today im not really sure what to do with him? He is much more impressive when he has more room so really need to nip this in the bud before I get on board again.

Any words of wisdom much appreciated! Very open to suggestions at this point.

I have had his back checked, hes fine.

[youtube]AtCuXzs4baM[/youtube]
 
I dont know much about breaking/retraining but if it was me then i would give him a yummy haynet to munch on while you put the saddle on- so

1. he is distracted
2. he is calmer
3. he associates the saddle with comfort and yummy things!
 
Gosh you put yourself at risk there, if you must do it in the stable put your hat on!!!!! Am never bossy in here, but consider yourself told off by me!!

Gorgeous horse !
 
The work your doing is good.. however if it was me i would do it in a school? Just so theres less chance of him banging your saddle/himself when hes being silly. Even if you had someone to hold him on a lunge line while you did the saddle?

Presuming you've had his back checked and saddle fitted and hes still behaving like this.. maybe start him off with a roller for lunging/long lining and work back up to the saddle? I wouldn't leave him in the stable for an hour with it on but maybe take him out for a walk in hand if you want to do additional work (after lunging etc) and let him have a munch of some grass etc.

Thats all I can think of really! Good luck :)
 
If you could give abit more info ie how long you've had him? what you've been doing with him? Have you actually managed to ride him etc that kind of thing.
What were you doing with his leg just before he started broncing?

Have you had the saddle checked for fit?

There could still be issues with his back, how is to touch his stomach area etc?
 
Oh and thought id add- i personally wouldn't reccomend it in the stable- have to remember they are flight animals and if they panic and can't escape it is very stressfull! you may end up making the problem worse as he links saddle and panic together
 
Ok, I have a few thoughts, and the first is the least polite, so I'll get it out of the way.

1. You know he reacts to the saddle, so why is he not tied up? TBH, that's an accident waiting to happen - I'd have him tied up or being held and I certainly wouldn't be in there with no hat on and with him loose. You were lucky not to be hurt and you need to be more careful. You also need to secure the stirrups so they don't escalate any panic he is feeling - after you've run them up, then take the loose end and wrap it back through the stirrup.

Phew, ok, onto more practical things.

2. He looks a bit cold-backed rather than nervous, so I certainly wouldn't use a saddle with nothing underneath. What you're getting is actually a pretty typical reaction from a horse not used to feeling the saddle next to him. Have you tried with a wool lined numnah? That would be my first port of call, followed by things like gel pads etc to see if any of those help.

3. You say you've had his back done, has a vet looked at him or just a 'back person'? If this has been going on for a while, a vet who knows a lot about backs would be someone I'd want to visit. I'd also be thinking about whether or not to have him scoped for ulcers, as it is the tightening which seems to trigger it.

4. How about having the saddle thoroughly checked - both for fit and to check it's sound and there are no loose tacks etc - has this been done, and have you had a second opinion?

He honestly doesn't look nervous, he looks completely relaxed and then as though something triggers the bucking once the girth is tightened.
 
As the previous posters have said ^^^^

But also, JanetGeorge (member on here) is brilliant with these sorts of things. I suggest you message her, and take her advice.
Good luck.
 
Lovely horse, sorry to hear you're having problems with him :(

Seems to be very sensitive in the girth area doesn't he?
Is he OK with a roller on?

I'm presuming that the saddle fits him. I had similar violent reactions from my horse when I first got him (ten years ago) due to his saddle being too narrow. It did take months though to gain his confidence even after getting a new saddle...they don't forget quickly.

I echo the other posters' concerns regarding you safety though..please wear a hat :eek:
 
Ditto Spotted Cat on everything. I would also secure saddle with first girth hole and then walk him before even thinking of going up another hole, and then do it gradually. You do NOT need to leg stretch, that set him off for sure.
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
Gosh you put yourself at risk there, if you must do it in the stable put your hat on!!!!! Am never bossy in here, but consider yourself told off by me!!

Gorgeous horse !
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He has never behaved like this in the stable before - will wear hat from now on!

I am a sucker for a handsome face, might go for a plain looking one next time!
 
Weezy said:
Ditto Spotted Cat on everything. I would also secure saddle with first girth hole and then walk him before even thinking of going up another hole, and then do it gradually. You do NOT need to leg stretch, that set him off for sure.
Click to expand...

Actually that's made me think of something else I meant to write - have you had his shoulders looked at? Because it was the leg pulling which set him off - does he do that if you pull his legs forward without a saddle on too?
 
Ok...watched the vid and have to say....you need way more space.....someone is gonna get hurt.

Up until you tried to pick up his leg to stretch it forward (I hate this by the way but that is personal) he was ok.
Stop trying to pick his leg up to stretch it forward!

Also when you did this the strap you have going across the front of the d's seemed to press down on to his withers.....some horses just HATE the whole wither thing....so take it off and try again.
Also, do the tacking up out side on the end of a lunge rope to be safer if possible.
Bryndu:)
 
I must admit i was at a complete loss for words when I saw your video! Why an earth did you attempt to put a saddle on with your horse lose in the stable like that! I have started numerous youngsters and would always have the horse held by a handler and preferably with a bridle on and a lunge line if I had any inkling that they were going to object to the saddle.
Letting him bronc around his stable lose has i'm afraid made the issue much worse as horse learn insatntly from bad experiences as well as good. How is he with a lungeing roller on? If i were you with someone holding your horse with a bridle I would put on a lungeing roller next time. Absolutely no need to put on a take off numerous times as you did with the saddle which only serves to bore the horse making him more likely to react. Just put it on and tighten it slowly with someone at his head reassurring him and keeping him in control. Then take him out and lunge him staright away, keeping his mind engaed with you.
If this is fine i would progress to the saddle and put it on in exactly the same way without fuss and take him out and lunge him. if he broncs on the lunge that is fine just send him forwards until he relaxes. i would do this for a few days until he seems totally fine with it and then start leaning over the saddle with again an experienced person holding on to him, first in the satble and then out in the arena all before getting on. I realise he is an older horse, but you need to treat him like a baby and make it all clear cut to nip this in the bud. hope that helps. Finally I wouldn't leave the saddle on after you have lunged for any length of time. once he has behaved lungeing make a fuss of him and his reward is you untack him, was him off and make him confortable.
 
Spins said:
The work your doing is good.. however if it was me i would do it in a school? Just so theres less chance of him banging your saddle/himself when hes being silly. Even if you had someone to hold him on a lunge line while you did the saddle?

Presuming you've had his back checked and saddle fitted and hes still behaving like this.. maybe start him off with a roller for lunging/long lining and work back up to the saddle? I wouldn't leave him in the stable for an hour with it on but maybe take him out for a walk in hand if you want to do additional work (after lunging etc) and let him have a munch of some grass etc.

Thats all I can think of really! Good luck :)
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I have started with a roller he has been fine until today. It is the girth he is bucking against rather than the saddle.
 
Weezy said:
Ditto Spotted Cat on everything. I would also secure saddle with first girth hole and then walk him before even thinking of going up another hole, and then do it gradually. You do NOT need to leg stretch, that set him off for sure.
Click to expand...

Actually that's made me think of something else I meant to write - have you had his shoulders looked at? Because it was the leg pulling which set him off - does he do that if you pull his legs forward without a saddle on too?
 
SpottedCat said:
Actually that's made me think of something else I meant to write - have you had his shoulders looked at? Because it was the leg pulling which set him off - does he do that if you pull his legs forward without a saddle on too?
Click to expand...

Just about to say the same thing! Also, the liver is in the girth area, has he had any probs with his liver at all? Only asking as my horse used to be an arse when it came to his shoulders being manipulated and I am 99% it was because of his liver probs!

Bit off the wall but thought I would mention it!
 
Weezy said:
Ditto Spotted Cat on everything. I would also secure saddle with first girth hole and then walk him before even thinking of going up another hole, and then do it gradually. You do NOT need to leg stretch, that set him off for sure.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly, he seemed "fine" until you stretched his leg forward.
 
Catherine123 said:
He has never behaved like this in the stable before - will wear hat from now on!

I am a sucker for a handsome face, might go for a plain looking one next time!
Click to expand...

We are all guilty of it, the other day I held the youngster while someone moved some barrells he was so wound up he exploded and leapt on me (probably for a cuddle the big wuss) but I did say afterwards this is a good case of, should have had my hat on even though I was just a spectator!
 
I have had him since september

When i first got him i was riding him but it was like sitting on a bomb as he is so tense and nervous. After a couple of rides something spooked him and he went into bucking fit, then cracked my rib.

What were you doing with his leg just before he started broncing?
I was pulling his leg forward so the skin isnt trapped by the girth.

Ok, I have a few thoughts, and the first is the least polite, so I'll get it out of the way.

You know he reacts to the saddle, so why is he not tied up?
He feels traped if he is tied up and just snaps the string or his rope. I was about to secure the stirrups with another stirrup leather under his belly. The last time he did this I had secured them as you describe and with the force of him bucking (he was outside) they both came out.

Although he may not look like it he is very nervous. When i first got him he would shake if he saw or heard anything whip like.

The saddle is serge lined so doesn't require a saddlecloth.
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
I think leg stretching was from back in the days of string girths and pinching occured then, my vet said not to do it as you can tear the fascia stretching a leg forward when you have a tight girth
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Oh no I understand the logic, I do this myself gently on my ex racer. :) I didn't know about the tearing though?
 
He is a handsome boy!! I'm no saddler and it is a little difficult to tell when he's arching his back but does his saddle rock ? Only asking as it seems to come off his back at the back alot ! If you pressed down at the front does the back come up?
I had a saddle which was Erm made to measure for my girl she went fairly well in it and I took her to a show where she bronced and I managed to jump off she then proceeded to rear vertical !extremely unlike her. I lunged her when I got home and I couldn't believe the saddle bouncing around on her back!!
Just a thought ?
 
Catherine123 said:
I have had him since september

When i first got him i was riding him but it was like sitting on a bomb as he is so tense and nervous. After a couple of rides something spooked him and he went into bucking fit, then cracked my rib.

What were you doing with his leg just before he started broncing?
I was pulling his leg forward so the skin isnt trapped by the girth.

Ok, I have a few thoughts, and the first is the least polite, so I'll get it out of the way.

You know he reacts to the saddle, so why is he not tied up?
He feels traped if he is tied up and just snaps the string or his rope. I was about to secure the stirrups with another stirrup leather under his belly. The last time he did this I had secured them as you describe and with the force of him bucking (he was outside) they both came out.

Although he may not look like it he is very nervous. When i first got him he would shake if he saw or heard anything whip like.

The saddle is serge lined so doesn't require a saddlecloth.
Click to expand...

If you know he is nervous, you definately should have either had him tied up with a quick release for safety or even better have a friend holding him Its almost as if at one point before you stretched his leg and just after you do the girth up he shuts down...

I understand saddle doesn't ''require'' a saddlecloth, but I would definately be using one anyway just to make things that little bit nicer for him. Also as already said, natural flight animals, so a small confined dark space, introducing something you already know he dislikes, is asking for trouble.

I hope you get it sorted before it becomes more dangerous, he seems the lovely type and you obviousley do have his best interests at heart but maybe your not quite thinking it through!

Edit - just a thought about the stirrups, what about taking them completely off, start from the very beginning with it. And also try using a surcingle all the way round him too see if its a reaction to the girth rather than the saddle etc
 
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You need someone holding him then. It just is not safe (for you or him) doing this loose! I disagree about the saddle and serge lining - if he is cold backed then it will make a huge difference having something under it. I really wouldn't secure the stirrups in the way you describe - it's another strap somewhere where he's already made it plain he does not like straps. Why not take them off altogether if you're not riding?

Does he tie up if you're not putting the saddle on? If not, then he really needs to learn that too - before the saddle stuff if you haven't got a helper.

What's the story with him? There may well be a reason he was a 'rescue' and I am presuming wasn't ridden before you got him?
 
ok....so how about the theory about the strap tightening?

I don't think anyone is being intentionally unpleasant....most of us on here are trying to help but not all of us get the writing right!!!

His facial expressions....if you look at the video are absolutely fine until you go to pick up his arm....I wonder.....is it worth getting a Bowen (or some such) person out in case he has a trapped nerve in his shoulder...which may go back to the hacking incident?

Actually if you look again he was fine when you girthed him up...so I dont believe that is the problem...though I was wrong ...once!!!:)

Bryndu
 
If you don't want to tie him (mine aren't either,)how about at least a rope halter and line so you have some control if there is a reaction?:D
 
I agree he looked fairly comfortable (though slightly irritated) until the leg stretch.

However, if he was my horse, I would forget all the saddle stuff for now and really go right back to basics. As in, teaching him to tie up properly and in all manner of different places. Then getting him used to lots of different experiences and situations IN HAND. A horse you can't tie up is dangerous. Forget the riding for now. "Bombproof" train him and get his trust 100%.

Meanwhile have him checked over by a vet. I do wonder whether the leg stretch is triggering something psychological rather than physical, what's his past history?

I don't want to come over all Parelli but I think in his case it's right back to basics... Good luck with him whatever you decide though, he is a very handsome fellow!
 
I had him checked over by a well regarded mctimmoney practioner.

In his defence his first resort is to run away the bucking only happens when he feels trapped. He has had the saddle on everyday for the last couple of weeks without any issues, until today.
 
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