More hoof pictures!

HufflyPuffly

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We are now 7 weeks shoeless and I think she's doing rather well :).

Near fore:
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The biggest changes are on this one which poss makes sense as this is her poorly leg.

She is still wonky:
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However the new angles look good, her feet are becoming concave, the white line is so much better and her frogs and general back of hoof I think look much healthier!

She had a trimmer out last week who took a little off the toe but left her square'er and left her bars to give her support. He was very pleased with her, said it all looks good and he can see no reason currently to go back to shoes with regards her medio-lateral imbalance. Was really pro choice about shoes as well which was nice, saying if we're struggling then shoes can always be put back on it doesn't have to be set in stone :).

So I was very interested in what my normal farrier would think today when he came to do the other two... It was like talking to a brick wall :(, was hopeful at first when he agreed that feet can do really well when given a break from shoes. Then spoilt it by not liking what the trimmer had done/ not liking how her feet are growing, specifically regarding the wonkiness to the inside edge. Then made it worse by making no sense saying that when the frog atrophies and shrinks this is what is pulling her heel in, which erm is what shoes did :confused3: her frogs are bulking up and widening now shoes are off :confused3:.
This is what he thinks will cause issues:
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I can clearly see the issue with the 'kink' but will see how she goes, maybe she just likes it like that ;) maybe it will correct with longer out of shoes, but his statement about the heels and frogs seemed to contradict what is actually happening (the frogs and heels and windening now)...

Also had a point about how long her toes are, but agreed it would just make her sore to take any off, and side clipped shoes would be the thing to solve it. When I pointed out the lovely new steep angle growing in which would naturally bring her toe in as the old toe is worn away, said it wouldn't stay that way :confused3:? So still doesn't even remotely think what I'm doing is good, despite me saying she was lame in shoes and now sound, he did conceed that sometimes wrong looking feet might be ok if that's what the horse wants. So deflated, thought he'd like what she's doing with her feet but maybe I'm wrong, got the distinct feeling he thought she was only coping as she's in light work but she's now in the most work she's had since she went lame last year so clearly her feet are coping well...

On a side note the other two are pretty much self trimming now :D.
 
So I bet farrier thinks that leverage from the long toe is going to cause the tighter growth to subsequently flair away, even though time after time it has been shown that this doesn't happen :p.

Her central sulcus looks a lot less deep now?
 
I also think the kink is likely just because of the tighter wall growth at the top aka the RHS of this one
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and on this one
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Yes her frogs are doing so much better it's untrue! I stopped thrush treatment a while ago and they've continued to improve along with her white line.

I didn't press why he thought her toes would go long again, was still reeling from the heel frog debate :o. We've had discussions about flair before as Skylla had a decent flair to the inside last time she was trimmed, I said then that I was hopeful that when she's doing more work it would sort itself out, he properly poo-poo'd the idea and said she would probably need to be shod to correct it. This time round the flair has almost completely gone, she's been on bootcamp and is working more... :o

It would be great if it's just the new tighter wall growing in, he did really worry me today :(. Will be keeping a close eye on it from now on!
 
I actually thought those pics were of some of my horses feet Ester!

I would agree that the new angle is likely to be causing the apparent kink and I wouldn't be at all worried.

What I would suggest is you don't allow the farrier to see her feet for another 6 months. By then, she will pretty much have nice little short toed new ones.
 
Well because all my previous go to experts tell me she won't cope barefoot, and it's only my own research and lovely people from the t'internet that tell me it will work :D.
 
Following with interest. Hadn't realised you'd gone bf. What were her issues?

Interested as my gelding has slightly uneven wear on the fronts from loading to the outside, due to his conformation and way of going. Currently in glue on shoes to stop him pulling the nails as he's been catching his inside, but farrier is v helpful in my case and we've talked about maybe moving him to bf to see how he goes.
 
:D thank you I was feeling great until he rained on my parade ;). Doodle can be the judge, if she's happy I'm happy :).

He doesn't know what he's talking about!

The kink is why she was lame in shoes. Now that they are off she's growing the angle she needs instead of the one which was forced on her, and the kink is the result of that. proof. It's proof hat the shoes needed to come off :)

I have a Doodle too, only mine's a bit smaller than yours :)
 
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So essentially AH any doubts and we will confirm it's all ok ;). I am glad you have a trimmer on board too even if it is just to sound things off.
 
He doesn't know what he's talking about!

The kink is why she was lame in shoes. Now that they are off she's growing the angle she needs instead of the one which was forced on her, and the kink is the result of that. proof. It's proof hat the shoes needed to come off :)

I have a Doodle too, only mine's a bit smaller than yours :)
Totally , totally this!!
the man is an arse, ignore him, they are looking fine :)
some farriers just can't be gracious as they know they are losing another client

ps meant to tell you on another thread that Skylla is looking fab and i'm glad she's out of bootcamp, the little monkey. xxxxx
 
But it is working... ;)

Well quite :D, really thought he'd change his tune when he could see how well she was doing! I shall man up and stop wobbling!

Following with interest. Hadn't realised you'd gone bf. What were her issues?

Interested as my gelding has slightly uneven wear on the fronts from loading to the outside, due to his conformation and way of going. Currently in glue on shoes to stop him pulling the nails as he's been catching his inside, but farrier is v helpful in my case and we've talked about maybe moving him to bf to see how he goes.

Gosh where to start, she came in April last year with a severe leg injury from the field, none weight baring and swollen from corenet band to knee :(, after scans, x-rays ect nothing catastrophic had occured, so a damaged joint capsual and rest was prescribed. After building up slowly she re-injured it in July, August she managed further damage to the back of her pastern so heartbar wedges were put on.

Now looking back I can see that before wedges we were having a slow but steady improvement, afterwards she would go a bit sounder then a bit lamer but never quite got sound again. In January she suffered a major abscess to the poorly leg, so I took the moment to take her shoes off.

However alongside all this, she is positive for Cushings (being treated) and has terrible medio-lateral imbalance which add to her difficulties. Her wonkiness is to the inside though, so she wears the inside down much faster, interestingly in the past couple of days I've noticed that although she is still heel first (:D) she is slightly landing outside edge first (not that I'm now a foot perv or anything :o). Now this is obviously not ideal as we want a level landing, but the really odd thing about this is that when she was lame it was most apparant when on the lunge and when she was forced to take the weight more to the outside (so when the poorly leg was to the outisde), her current desire to place the outside edge down first is just bizarre compared to then. I'm hoping that this is a good sign (as she's eager to go and seems sound moving like this) but will be keeping a very close eye on it, hopefully in a couple of days we will be level again...

I think after 23 years it has all caught up with her and the injury and then change of shoeing last year just tipped her over the edge and she couldn't cope anymore.

Both vet and farrier said barefoot wouldn't work for her and all her issues, I followed their advice until it was obvious the shoes had caused the abscess (bruise on the other foot in exactly the same place) and thought I'm being mental I know my horse, sod it we can try shoes off.

She went from lame in shoes to sound bare...

He doesn't know what he's talking about!

The kink is why she was lame in shoes. Now that they are off she's growing the angle she needs instead of the one which was forced on her, and the kink is the result of that. proof. It's proof hat the shoes needed to come off :)

I have a Doodle too, only mine's a bit smaller than yours :)

Ah it's hard to admit it, he's done an amazing job for the past 6 years or so and really improved her. He is not a barefoot fan though clearly :o.

I think the same, think I need to trust my own judgement more it seems to be working so far :D.

Would love to see your Doodle, love Doodle's :D.

So essentially AH any doubts and we will confirm it's all ok ;). I am glad you have a trimmer on board too even if it is just to sound things off.

Haha I think it's part of the wobble that until the trimmer came only people who I've never met or seen Doodle were agreeing with me :D, trimmer is staying for definite he was great and could actually discuss things in a way that didn't make me feel a fool and I'm doing everything wrong!


Thanks everyone, you've really cheered me up, it's very appreciated to have the support :).
 
Totally , totally this!!
the man is an arse, ignore him, they are looking fine :)
some farriers just can't be gracious as they know they are losing another client

ps meant to tell you on another thread that Skylla is looking fab and i'm glad she's out of bootcamp, the little monkey. xxxxx


:D Thank you, he does not seem to be able to cope with an idea that differs from his own, he was rather upset when the vet disagreed with his shoeing choice... It's mad I was very prepared to stay with him, which yes none now have shoes on but they only had fronts on anyway, and I wouldn't care if he charged me the same...

Ah thanks, she is definitely out of the dog-house now, she had a day off Monday and got on last night and she was brilliant, didn't even try to buck into canter :D.

x x x
 
When will farriers be properly trained and understand how to manage and trim shoeless horses? And how long before vets are trained the same way? There is so much research and evidence for the benefits, and yet so many "professionals" just don't seem interested in educating themselves. Your farrier could have learned a thing or two here OP, but instead he seems to have his blinkers on and his fingers in his ears, tra la la...
 
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When will farriers be properly trained and understand how to manage and trim shoeless horses? And how long before vets are trained the same way? There is so much research and evidence for the benefits, and yet so many "professionals" just don't seem interested in educating themselves. Your farrier could have learned a thing or two here OP, but instead he seems to have his blinkers on and his fingers in his ears, tra la la...

This is partly why I'm so frustrated as he was doing a fab job with my other two barefooted horses, so can clearly do a good job with a bare foot. But when it came to fixing a problem he and the vet both wouldn't entertain the idea that shoes off would help :(.

I'm hoping that as her feet improve and her soundness keeps going then maybe the vet might at least be interested...
 
This is partly why I'm so frustrated as he was doing a fab job with my other two barefooted horses, so can clearly do a good job with a bare foot. But when it came to fixing a problem he and the vet both wouldn't entertain the idea that shoes off would help :(.

I'm hoping that as her feet improve and her soundness keeps going then maybe the vet might at least be interested...

I am afraid I wouldn't hold my breath for either the farrier or the vet to become even remotely interested. I have found the ones who are interested are just open minded anyway (vets and farriers and there are some good ones) . The rest I haven't found have changed their views very quickly, if at all. From the farriers POV is he supposed to congratulate the trimmer (and most farriers dislike trimmers) who has no qualifications in his view and who has had 3 minutes training but who may be able to get the horse sound?
 
Well I was sneaky enough just to say I'd asked someone who had done a lot of successful barefoot rehabs to look at her rather than the dreaded 'trimmer' ;). But I see your point, I'm just sad he didn't try and at least support me in my decision :(.
 
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