More musings about JAS

i dont think this is BEs fault, they have to rely on honesty of competitors, otherwise we would be paying ridiculous amounts because it would take so long to go through results

thats my opinion anyway

although the 5 sec penalty should have been used
 
Ok,, the 3 judges were all well known trainers and event riders. Eventing is a fairly small world.

1 of the judges was also the organiser, I'm guessing he knew his rules.

With eventing being such a small word surely one of the judges must have known that the rider had gone advanced. Burghley isn't exactly low profile is it?
 
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Ok,, the 3 judges were all well known trainers and event riders. Eventing is a fairly small world.

1 of the judges was also the organiser, I'm guessing he knew his rules.

With eventing being such a small word surely one of the judges must have known that the rider had gone advanced. Burghley isn't exactly low profile is it?

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Neither is Badminton
crazy.gif
 
I have read through all the messages and comments regarding the JAS Final and I thought it would be a good idea if I replied as I am one of the Organisers of the JAS series!

I see you are questioning whether Isla Johnson-Wells should have won the Intro Final. She did enter an Advanced Class last year but did not complete. The BE ruling on who can compete at Intro level is ‘Except HC no rider who has completed an Advanced, 3* or 4* Event in the current or two previous seasons may compete’. Isla (and several others) contacted us before the series started and they were all told the same rule and directed to the BE rule book. As Isla was eliminated she never completed the event so was fine to compete at that level. Also, this was the only time she had attempted to compete at this level since 2003.

With regard to the 5 point penalty on FEI accredited Ponies and Riders in the Top 100 – this rule is only used at the qualifiers. It is felt that once they reach the Final it is only fair that everyone is competing on a level playing field. The rule was brought in at the qualifiers as Ponies, in particular, were taking all the placings therefore no one else was able to qualify! There were 4 combinations that would have been affected at the Final and I have checked their XC times and the winner of the novice would still have won even if we had added 5 seconds onto her time.

I hope this makes it clearer but if you have any further questions please do get back in touch with me and I will be happy to explain further.

Holly Farr
 
OK, fair enough, your comp, your rules.

However for it to be fair these rules should be made clear in the JAS rules and not in the BE rulebook.

As far as I can see it doesn't mention the 2 year rule or the FEI 5 secs but not at the final rule in the Jas rules I downloaded from BE. The JAS rules just state no advanced riders.

Rules need to be as transparent and simple as possible. I applaud your efforts to try to keep it fair by introducing penalties, but find it difficult to see how different rules apply in the final.

It seems that the comp we though we had entered was not in fact the comp that we paid to take part in.

Happy to be corrected though!
 
Though I can appreciate that the winner of the intro did not complete at advanced I feel that the whole point of intro is that its for grassroots riders and these rules as they currently stand do not go far enough. Up to now I guess the winners have been true grass roots winners but I think this brings to light the fact that somebody who could have won Badminton can still become eligible for intro. Their skill would never have gone away nor their knowledge or riding so why should they be able to compete against rank amateurs?
 
I agree, I think the intro section should mean just that and people that have evented to such a level as going round Badminton should not be allowed in this level to give the rest a chance.
Or perhaps an open and restricted class?
I do not have an axe to grind as I am not intrested in competing in JAS but I can imagine a lot of disgruntled people!
 
I think you need to make sure that the rules on the website are the same rules that you are using. Also why was IncaCola told that she could not compete in the Intro class as she had competed at advanced in 2003?
 
You have probably seen how big the BE rule book is - we could not possibly put everything in the paper schedule! It is stated in the JAS schedule "Classes are run in accordance with British Eventing Rules and qualifications except where specified and/or amended.”

JAS is a training series so we like to think everyone can come and enjoy it - and the few restrictions we put in are there to help not hinder.

Holly
 
Everyone who contacts us would get the same answer that Isla had - we direct everyone to check the BE rule book as well. I do not know why they felt they could not compete as I would not have given a different answer.

Holly
 
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It is stated in the JAS schedule "Classes are run in accordance with British Eventing Rules and qualifications except where specified and/or amended.”



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I have just gone and had a look at the JAS schedule and rules as I was intrigued by this post.

It clearly states at least 3 times that advanced riders are not eligible. It does not state completed advanced riders.

How are people to know that 'no advanced riders' wasn't part of the 'except where specified and/or amended' clause you have added above? Given that the specific alteration is highlighted 3 times I think it would be more than reasonable for any competitor to assume this was in fact one of the clauses.

I don't have an axe to grind as I have not competed nor do I intend to compete in JAS - but I can see why there might be some transparency issues questioned!
 
11. Classes will be run in accordance with
British Eventing Rules and qualifications except
where specified and/or amended.

Isn't this an amendment right here??

20. Riders in the 2008 Top 100 List and ponies
accepted for the 2008/2009 Pony Trials (FEI
Ponies) will automatically incur a five second
penalty handicap in classes 2 and 3. (NB: FEI
ponies, <font color="blue"> Top 100 riders or any rider who has ridden
at Advanced level is ineligible for JAS Intro </font> .)
 
I have taken all your comments on board and when we are producing the schedule next year I will make sure it reads better. It has had the same wording for 3 years and no one has ever commented - so it is good to have feedback!

Holly
 
I suppose no one has noticed the anomaly before because a rider who has ridded at both Badminton and Burghley has never won £500 worth of training for winning an Intro comp before!
 
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