MORE Saddle woes - I am just about ready to throw in the towel

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PercyMum

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This is a great big whinge because I have no-one horsey to talk to - and my OH is deployed so I can't talk to him either. So I'd be very grateful if someone could listen, have a head scratch and perhaps suggest something, even if its 'Yep, I'd give up too!!'. Its a bit of a long one but hang in there, it does have a point..

After a good few years of horsey disasters, I finally had my boy fixed, and a youngster (ex racer) to bring on and the horses at home. I lost my lad, just when we were back to competing and all going well. The ex-racer is talented but tricky, and about the same time I was given a pretty devastating diagnosis on my own spinal condition. My Mum lent the money to have a 'final wahey' and I bought a gorge 17.1hh IDx, who was 5-stage vetted and passed with bells on. Got him home, total nightmare, bloods done - showed bute, vendor gone. Horse has kissing spine SI damage and recommend PTS. Didn't feel right or to the attending vet so we held off and I had the opportunity of a lovely unspoilt Highlandx, which I took. Fast forward 6 months, the IDx made an incredible recovery and back in work, Highland going amazingly and the TB finally settling down in to work, and we were ready to start competing at Novice Dr, and a few little SJing classes with the Highland and TB. However, little niggles crept in so I had saddles overhauled by the Saddle Company, who started a chain of disasters.

The Highlandx and TB started to nosedive - IDx fine as he had been going well in a Thoroughgood. After a total faff, I decided to up sticks and try Balance as I really liked the concept. Fitter came out, charged 2k for 2 2nd hand saddles, and a refit of a Lavinia Mitchell I had and off we went. Off to a good start, but 4 weeks later all horses started pratting about and clearly not happy. I call the fitter back out, who agrees the horses arent happy but its not the saddles (even though it started around the time I changed saddles). She stated that the way Balance saddles work they sometimes show up problems but I have no idea if that's actually the case? The horses aren't happy to work in any of saddles and all thoroughly p'd off and refuse to do anything, which isn't in any of their characters. So, I'm now down another 100 quid, need to call the physio out for 3 horse (another 150) when they were all OK but needed slightly better-fitting saddles. Oh, and she's taken one of the saddles away as 'the flocking has totally gone - it shouldn't have done that', so I guess I'll be asked to pay for that too. And I feel like I'm stuck with these saddles, as I have spent so much on them I need to try and get them sorted. Which I am guessing is silly.

I know its an overreaction but I have literally gone back 12 months in their training - all that work for nothing and I am left questioning my own judgment as to whether these saddles were the right choice, if its the fitter, the principles behind them or if all of them really are broken and the saddles have highlighted issues I wasn't aware were there. I feel like giving up, and am absolutely gutted. There is/has been no lameness, teeth etc have been donw, and all 3 now have sore backs and the Highland has turned into a total strop monster when ridden when previously she was such a hardworking type. It sounds like the saddles but I can't afford to change. I'm just getting myself in such a state over this. Any help/advice gratefully received :-(
 
What are they like if you ride bareback. I think it sounds highly likely it's the saddles and if I were you I would consider getting a fitter out that does various types of saddles not just one make.

Unless they do different trees etc it would be hard to believe that your three very different types of horses can all wear the same make of saddle no problem... And this would seem to be borne out by your experiences!
 
Finding a saddler you trust is quite clearly based on all the threads on here very difficult .
What do you think about how the saddles fit. ?
I think your best way forward is to tell the saddles the saddles are not fit for purpose and you want to return them for a refund .
I have seen horses become naughty when a saddle that was restricting then is replaced with one that allows them to move freely but not becoming resistant to work .
 
The TB is, ahem, uncomfortable to ride BB as he has a rather long wither. Highland no different, the ID is a bit of a nutter so I wouldn't ride him BB I'm afraid. I liked the Balance range as they seemed to offer more room to move for them, and I certainly felt this at the start but now the TB and Highlands don't seem to fit at all. TBH, the ID does seem to fit and it may be that he needed the physio anyway and I have let him go too long without treatment. To also be fair, he has come along very well in his saddle and has only gone downhill in the last 2-3 weeks. I just spoke to the fitter and everything she says makes sense, and that makes me so confused as I do think the principle behind the saddles are the way of fitting is sensible. I'm not trying to make excuses but I also suffer from depression and PTSD so my ability to deal with these situations without losing my rag is somewhat diminished so I tend to back away from confrontation in case I lose it. God, I am so pathetic!
 
a few thoughts… Have you still got your old saddles? If you have, I'd put them back on with a couple of poly pads and see how the horses react. I've got a reactor panel which impressed me on my old horse, it'll really impress me if it goes on the next one and does the job. It sounds like you were having some issues before you changed saddles, are the horses definitely sound and free moving on the lunge? Are you fit and not carrying to much weight? If you are over-weight this could explain numerous horses with sore backs. Maybe focus on sorting one horse and just give the others a rest for a bit instead of trying to afford to sort out all three at once?
 
Flame_ said:
a few thoughts… Have you still got your old saddles? If you have, I'd put them back on with a couple of poly pads and see how the horses react. I've got a reactor panel which impressed me on my old horse, it'll really impress me if it goes on the next one and does the job. It sounds like you were having some issues before you changed saddles, are the horses definitely sound and free moving on the lunge? Are you fit and not carrying to much weight? If you are over-weight this could explain numerous horses with sore backs. Maybe focus on sorting one horse and just give the others a rest for a bit instead of trying to afford to sort out all three at once?
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Thanks. Yes, they weren't quite right with the old saddles (fitted by the Saddle Company). All 3 have has lameness workups and showed up no issues, even the ID. The vet did comment that the ID and Highland needed to work their core, so I have invested in a Equi-Band set and they are all working well and freely on that. I weigh 12.5 stone and am 5'9 and pretty fit so I don't think its an overweight issue (I'd certainly hope they can all carry me!!). Is it me? I guess it could be. But I asked the vet when riding all 3 (and she is pretty blunt ) and she said there was no issues with my riding. Obviously I can improve on many things, as I am sure many of us can, but I don't jab/pull my horses in the mouth, lump on their backs, school them in tiny circles for hours or any of the usual stuff that causes issues. They do 2 days work, 1 day off, 3 days work, one day off and varying between lunge, hack and school.
 
could you borrow a treeless? maybe not a long term solution, but a glorified saddle pad is as good as riding bareback to see if it is saddle causing the issues.

There are some horses that are difficult to fit saddles to, there are some that you can fit the perfect fitting saddle to but they just don't like it. Saying that, the basics aren't that difficult-there are some good resources on saddle fitting both online and in print. Do you think the saddles fit?

My experience with Balance saddles is quite old, I was never sold on them (they weren't on my horse) but thats by the by really.
 
PercyMum said:
Thanks. Yes, they weren't quite right with the old saddles (fitted by the Saddle Company). All 3 have has lameness workups and showed up no issues, even the ID. The vet did comment that the ID and Highland needed to work their core, so I have invested in a Equi-Band set and they are all working well and freely on that. .
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there is an excellent DVD and book called Activating your horse's core by Hilary Clayton which I totally recommend-it really works provided you do it regularly.
 
Lavinia Mitchell used to sell Balance Saddles, so she knows all about the fitting of them and the concept. I had a Balance but got rid of it and when I got a "normal" saddle there was absolutely no difference inthe way the horse went and I felt a lot safer.

How about giving Lavinia a ring?

I know it is a nightmare when everyone says something different.
 
Orangehorse said:
Lavinia Mitchell used to sell Balance Saddles, so she knows all about the fitting of them and the concept. I had a Balance but got rid of it and when I got a "normal" saddle there was absolutely no difference inthe way the horse went and I felt a lot safer.

How about giving Lavinia a ring?

I know it is a nightmare when everyone says something different.
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I agree I would ring lavinia she sorted out my problem saddle situation when I was at the point of giving up riding the horse as nothing fitted.

I am sure she supplies and fits saddle company saddles as well.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
there is an excellent DVD and book called Activating your horse's core by Hilary Clayton which I totally recommend-it really works provided you do it regularly.
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Ooh, thanks, that's really useful - I'll look that up

Orangehorse said:
Lavinia Mitchell used to sell Balance Saddles, so she knows all about the fitting of them and the concept. I had a Balance but got rid of it and when I got a "normal" saddle there was absolutely no difference inthe way the horse went and I felt a lot safer.

How about giving Lavinia a ring?

I know it is a nightmare when everyone says something different.
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Thankyou, I may do but feel I should give this fitter a chance to make good. They did all go much better when they were first fitted - the TB was so amazing there were actual tears in my eyes as he was so different. I just don't know whats gone wrong. I have a feeling its me somehow but I feel better in these saddles too.

Sigh.
 
I am shocked that you're putting a saddle on a horse you call 'a bit of a nutter' when he's got x rays for kissing spine damage so bad the vet who took them told you to have him put to sleep. Has the horse had spine jabs or an operation? If not, there's no way I would be putting a saddle anywhere near his back :(
 
So? said:
I am shocked that you're putting a saddle on a horse you call 'a bit of a nutter' when he's got x rays for kissing spine damage so bad the vet who took them told you to have him put to sleep. Has the horse had spine jabs or an operation? If not, there's no way I would be putting a saddle anywhere near his back :(
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Thank you for your concern but to clarify, the consulting vet said to PTS for insurance reasons, as he would never jump, let alone event. The attending vet and I did not feel comfortable doing this and made the choice to give him the summer, then PTS. However, he did not look ready to go and in fact, seemed positively thriving. In full consultation with my vet, we decided a future as a field ornament and to try and see how he coped with the winter. By January he was behaving like a total loon, and the vet could elicit none of the previous pain responses. She therefore suggested a gentle hack might alleviate his boredom and see how he went. He decided that he wanted to do more (I really have 'listened' to this horse to ensue he is not pushed) and had weekly vet checks to ensure his comfort, working up to a level where we were considering taking him out for a Novice dressage comp. No, he hasn't had a KS op or jabs. Having had the misfortune of having had 2 horses with KS previously, I would like to think I can manage the issue, along with my vets advice. I have been incredibly careful with this horse, rest assured.
 
So? said:
I am shocked that you're putting a saddle on a horse you call 'a bit of a nutter' when he's got x rays for kissing spine damage so bad the vet who took them told you to have him put to sleep. Has the horse had spine jabs or an operation? If not, there's no way I would be putting a saddle anywhere near his back :(
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Just like to point out that some vets are having a lot of success using rehabilitation rather than surgery for kissing spines i.e. they don't all need operations to get back to a working life (though also depends on individual case i .e. not all suitable for rehab without surgery too).
 
wkiwi said:
Just like to point out that some vets are having a lot of success using rehabilitation rather than surgery for kissing spines i.e. they don't all need operations to get back to a working life (though also depends on individual case i .e. not all suitable for rehab without surgery too).
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Thank you, yes, this is what my vet felt. TBH, the issues he had were so extreme, she thought meds or surgery would just be a futile effort, hence field ornament and regular checks to ensure he was comfortable. She didn't even consider rehab either until he started 'demonstrating' how good he felt, so we thought we would give it a crack. It had worked really well - he was incredible - until 2-3 weeks ago. As I said earlier, his saddle is the only one that I feel fits and its possible that I have left it too long between physio visits. He is also a total t*t in the field so he could have twanged something that way. The other 2, not so much.
 
It does seem odd that all three horses are reacting the same way. Could your own spinal problems be having an impact, do you think? It is well known that riders with bad backs can cause back problems in their horses and vice versa.
 
Speedyfluff said:
It does seem odd that all three horses are reacting the same way. Could your own spinal problems be having an impact, do you think? It is well known that riders with bad backs can cause back problems in their horses and vice versa.
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This is what I was just about to say.......... OP I think you need to just press the pause button for a mo - and sort out YOUR back/spinal issues first before you commit to getting on any of your horses. Yes I would agree the saddle problems you've been having certainly are not helping, but I can't help thinking that there is one immediate issue which is foremost - and that is YOU and YOUR back. Sorry, this isn't what you want to hear, but I would strongly suspect that your back issues are affecting your horses' way of going.

My physio is a McTimoney person, and treats both the horses and me. I would suggest that you search out someone with the relevant experience and qualifications, but also someone who has the right "feel" for this kind of problem, and ask them to treat both you and your horses.

I would very respectfully suggest that you address your problems pronto, or risk further problems of pain-related behaviour with your horses. I'm suggesting, as gently as possible, that they're desperately trying to tell you something...............
 
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I think it is the saddles. I’ve seen / heard of horses going much better initially in the wider balance saddles and then ending up sore. It is REALLY important not to change too much, too quickly in respect to saddles, and it is easy to make horse sore.

I’d get the physio out, then the saddler out. Lunge the horses in the meantime. Show the saddler the physio reports, and ask her if she can help. Give her a chance but keep your eyes open. PM me the name of your saddler, if you want, if you are South / Home Counties, I am wondering if we have the same one?

Have you told the saddler the issues, and asked for her thoughts? She may be able to give some temporary advice? And will hopefully fit in coming back quickly.
 
Speedyfluff said:
It does seem odd that all three horses are reacting the same way. Could your own spinal problems be having an impact, do you think? It is well known that riders with bad backs can cause back problems in their horses and vice versa.
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MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
This is what I was just about to say.......... OP I think you need to just press the pause button for a mo - and sort out YOUR back/spinal issues first before you commit to getting on any of your horses. Yes I would agree the saddle problems you've been having certainly are not helping, but I can't help thinking that there is one immediate issue which is foremost - and that is YOU and YOUR back. Sorry, this isn't what you want to hear, but I would strongly suspect that your back issues are affecting your horses' way of going.

My physio is a McTimoney person, and treats both the horses and me. I would suggest that you search out someone with the relevant experience and qualifications, but also someone who has the right "feel" for this kind of problem, and ask them to treat both you and your horses.

I would very respectfully suggest that you address your problems pronto, or risk further problems of pain-related behaviour with your horses. I'm suggesting, as gently as possible, that they're desperately trying to tell you something...............
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You may be right - but no-one is going to fix my back; its a pretty grim outlook there. It may be I am holding tension through my spine and this is transmitting through to my horses? If this is the case, and seeing as I am already on morphine, and have regular lessons with no hint of any particular issues beyond that of your average amateur, the reality would be I have to quit riding. I cannot even comprehend that. To have no horses to ride and not have the feeling of being able to be 'free' would give me no reason to get up in the morning. After having an incredibly active, physical life, I cannot run, jump or anything like that. I've already had to quit XC and jumping at anything above 90cm (in fact, I probably shouldn't even be doing that). If it is me and my back, what the hell am I supposed to do?
 
Do you have a physio who treats you and your horses together? Having a dual physio can really help as they can do an assessment of you riding and work on you both from there.
 
PercyMum said:
If it is me and my back, what the hell am I supposed to do?
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Assume its the saddles first - you can fix that. Focus on one horse, the most straightforward one. Do you have any professional rider contacts who could help advise you on picking up something old that would vaguely fit with a riser pad or whatever? Just something else to get you going in the short term - you could sell it on again and probably get your money back later.

ETA Or what about an older endurance, between treed and treeless saddle? They're really adjustable so chances are they could be fitted to at least one of the horses.
 
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Don't panic about your back to much I have broken my back twice have significant permanent impairment of spinal function from the second break a bad smashed up wonky leg and a replaced hip and my horses do just fine .
Concentrate on getting the saddle situation sorted .
You need to find a trustworthy saddle fitter .
 
It may be worth getting hold of a Suberpad and trying it with at least one horse, if not all. Also second the earlier suggestion to try a treeless. I'm not saying they're the answer, but if you could borrow or trial a really decent one it might at least point you in one direction or another. Solution, or even something cheaper but still decent like a Torsion. The Suberpad will disguise a lot of saddle issues, so you might at least be able to pinpoint whether it is the saddles or not. Sounds like it may well be though.
 
I'd also agree with the idea of a physio/therapist to look at you and the horses together.

If you believe it's the saddles that are the problem, I'd be seriously tempted to get the saddler to purchase them all back off you at the price you paid, although probably easier said than done. If you are not going to be riding all your horses at the same time, how about considering a solutions treeless saddle. One saddke should fit on all three horses (probably with different pads/shims underneathe).
 
Ring Balance direct and explain the situation. I've had Balance saddles for many years and think they are wonderful, but it would be perfectly possible to end up using them incorrectly. The ladies at Balance are lovely and very helpful.
I'm always on the lookout for another Horizon GPD on the off chance that you do decide to sell and happen to have one.....
 
PercyMum said:
You may be right - but no-one is going to fix my back; its a pretty grim outlook there. It may be I am holding tension through my spine and this is transmitting through to my horses? If this is the case, and seeing as I am already on morphine, and have regular lessons with no hint of any particular issues beyond that of your average amateur, the reality would be I have to quit riding. I cannot even comprehend that. To have no horses to ride and not have the feeling of being able to be 'free' would give me no reason to get up in the morning. After having an incredibly active, physical life, I cannot run, jump or anything like that. I've already had to quit XC and jumping at anything above 90cm (in fact, I probably shouldn't even be doing that). If it is me and my back, what the hell am I supposed to do?
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If the problem does turn out to be you, consider how you're working your horses. Are you expecting peak performance or perfect symmetry from them? Try letting them compensate for your problems instead. They'll end up one sided or wonkey themselves eventually, may not be able to work on the bit, or may need regular physio or similar to keep them doing ok, but plenty of horses are one sided or wonkey either from injury or just not being schooled/sat on properly by their novice/disinterested/wonkey riders, your horses will be no worse off than theirs it just requires you to adjust your mindset to allow it to happen. It's not easy accepting you can't ride to previous capabilities. If you are accidentally causing their problems having a saddle that's too wide and using a pad to cushion them a bit could even help to protect them from damage. Don't give up riding, whatever is the problem there's bound to be a way round it.
 
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