Morning Line on C4

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Jazzelle29

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Watched the Morning Line on C4 to just as the presenters were discussing an incident recently where a racehorse was punched in the face by one of the racecourse handlers. John McCririck was appalled by this incident and stated that he felt the handler acted badly. The other two presenters however felt that hitting the horse was actually acceptable behavour.

Am I the only person here who feels that the racing industry needs to take a long, hard look at itself? Since when did hitting a distressed horse in the face cause its behaviour to improve? How can this be considered acceptable?

What if the cameras had instead been focused on a parent and toddler in the crowd- imagine the toddler having a tantrum and being hit in the face by its parent... would that be considered acceptable? I think not.

I'm not a softy, I spent 5yrs as a police officer, but the one thing I do know is that violence begets violence.

Why can't the racing industry train its employees to take a more sympathetic approach to horse handling- perhaps introduce some behavioural training and perhaps train and desensitize these horses correctly before an incident like this is allowed to happen?

I'm sorry but the ususal excuses of lack of time, money etc etc are not on. We should start looking at quality over quantity.

These horses will eventually finish their racing careers and will need a new job to do. How can we possibly hope to retrain horses that have been made scared and defensive by poor handling?

Sadly those are the ones that no one talks about that find their way to the slaughterhouses.

Bear in mind that I'm just a concerned horse owner. God knows what the likes of PETA etc would have to say about things like this.
 
I havent heard of this incident....what did the horse do to 'deserve' the punishment?

Without having seen or heard anything about the ins and outs of the situation, I find it hard to judge. If the horse had bitten the handler, then a punch on the nose could well be justified. If the horse was simply nervous/excited/frightened, then punching it was undoubtedly wrong....
 
The horse was called Caprio and was at Brighton racecourse.

It had already hurt its groom and unseated its jockey prior to the race. Its on its 3rd trainer so far and has behaved poorly on other occasions.

OK so I know that some of you out there will think "well, then that dreadful, ungrateful, naughty horse deserves a smack"

BUT Think a little longer:

WHY was this horse even sent to the races when it clearly has physical and/or behavioural issues that need to be addressed?

WHY hasn't the owner stopped to think that maybe this horse just isn't cut out for racing?

WHY when the horse had unseated its jockey prior to starting did they even consider trying to get it saddled and raced?

Why not just say that "tomorrows another day" and go back to the drawing board?

These are prey animals that do not think and reason like we do. They live in the moment and do what they can to stay alive.

If the horse behaves badly then I'm afraid it has been failed by the people who were supposed to care for this horse and prepare it for life as a racehorse.

The sad thing now is that ths horse will pay the price for its owner/handlers apathy and will probably end up on its way to Potters.
 
Good idea JM.

Pat Parelli has worked with many racehorses in the US and in particular a TB stallion that had been mishandled to the point that it wore a muzzle 24/7 to prevent it from attacking its handlers.

The stallion's behaviour has now improved massively. Pat also trained its handlers to increase their confidence when dealing with the horse.

I'm glad that you can appreciate a holistic approach to this situation instead of "shooting down" a new member of this forum.
 
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Good idea JM.

Pat Parelli has worked with many racehorses in the US and in particular a TB stallion that had been mishandled to the point that it wore a muzzle 24/7 to prevent it from attacking its handlers.

The stallion's behaviour has now improved massively. Pat also trained its handlers to increase their confidence when dealing with the horse.

I'm glad that you can appreciate a holistic approach to this situation instead of "shooting down" a new member of this forum.

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Ohhh.. You didn't get the sarcasm then
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Actually, I think she did get it!
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Unfortunatly these things happen once a horse get to the race course; it doesn't matter how much stalls training etc you've done at home, once the horse gets to the stalls he's in someone elses hands
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I agree that many horses are sent out ill prepared and un happy in their training. I can only assume these horses are sent out due to (un-horsey) owner pressure who are desperate for a run. Hopefully no sensible trainer would go to the effort of taking a horse, who wasn't ready, to the racecourse.

There is no excuse for 'punching' a horse in the face.
 
Bloody horse was being a total eejit and needed it. I completely agree with Alice and Francome. It brought the horse out of the strop, they fixed the tack and loaded it and it nearly won.
I don't think 5 years on the police force is a sound enough grounding to pass comment on the difficulties and needs for immediate solutions faced by people working with very fit adrenaline fuelled horses. Have you experience of that?
And an adult hitting a child is hardly comparable to a human giving a horse a slap to refocus it.

Mebbe they should have waved a carrot stick at it instead.....
 
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Good idea JM.

Pat Parelli has worked with many racehorses in the US and in particular a TB stallion that had been mishandled to the point that it wore a muzzle 24/7 to prevent it from attacking its handlers.

The stallion's behaviour has now improved massively. Pat also trained its handlers to increase their confidence when dealing with the horse.

I'm glad that you can appreciate a holistic approach to this situation instead of "shooting down" a new member of this forum.

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Ohhh.. You didn't get the sarcasm then
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no i dont think she did, eh tinkerbee...
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personally, GTF I'd have given the damn thing a good hiding..

it has, to my knowledge had a fair few chances with several trainers...
 
How did this get from racing on channel 4 to parelli?
It is like some people have to attack parelli regardless of what the original post was about.
This was about someone punching a horse in the face. so just because someone doesn't advocate treating a horse in that manner, it means that they are airy fairy and parelli fans etc.
 
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How did this get from racing on channel 4 to parelli?
It is like some people have to attack parelli regardless of what the original post was about.
This was about someone punching a horse in the face. so just because someone doesn't advocate treating a horse in that manner, it means that they are airy fairy and parelli fans etc.

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probably because MOST on here can see through the "parelli" hype and just treat it for the total con that it is????
 
To the poster who queried the relevance of my police experience- well I would think that working as a specialist rape and sexual offences liaison officer (who also dealt with domestic violence incidents) would give me a fair insight into how and why people lash out in anger/frustration- whatever.

Horse experience? I have worked as a hunt groom, worked on a racing yard and my boyf events at Novice level, starts youngsters under saddle and takes "problem" horses for rehab, so yup, have dealt with numerous fit, stroppy and very large horses too.

Oh, and the sarcasm? I'll leave that up to you guys to speculate as to whether I "got it" or not, eh?
 
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To the poster who queried the relevance of my police experience- well I would think that working as a specialist rape and sexual offences liaison officer (who also dealt with domestic violence incidents) would give me a fair insight into how and why people lash out in anger/frustration- whatever.

Horse experience? I have worked as a hunt groom, worked on a racing yard and my boyf events at Novice level, starts youngsters under saddle and takes "problem" horses for rehab, so yup, have dealt with numerous fit, stroppy and very large horses too.

Oh, and the sarcasm? I'll leave that up to you guys to speculate as to whether I "got it" or not, eh?

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the first paragraph...not really interested..

second...ditto..

third..as you like....
 
FWIW GTF and JM07 I also agree that the handler was correct in hitting the horse.
I would not stand for that kind of behaviour from a horse either. Racehorse or no racehorse. I have been to enough race meetings and seen enough races -both before and after the event- to know when a horse is behaving out of line. To my knowledge I don't recall having personally seen any horse being a total git in front of my own eyes at the racetrack. I have seen a few jig jogging around the parade ring, rearing, whinnying, taking a spin, getting sweated up etc but I have never seen in person a racehorse trying to take a bite out of someone.
That said I must be very lucky although I have heard of many stories of such racehorses trying to do such that in their own stable settings, either try to bite or kick out.
I believe that the handler acted accordingly in this instance. The situation could have esculated even further were it not for the intervention of the stalls handler.

I suggest the OP takes a good hard look at the following story about the incident.
Stalls handler facing probe after slapping horse

Published: in the Racing Post 02/07/2008 (News) By Rodney Masters

A SENIOR starting stalls handler who was bitten twice and headbutted by a fractious colt at Brighton yesterday faces possible disciplinary action by both the BHA and RaceTech because he responded by giving the horse a slap on the nose.
MarkWilson, who has been a member of the stalls team for more than 25 years and did not wish to comment, struck 3-1 favourite Caprio with his open left hand prior to loading for the 7f handicap. The blow landed partly on the horse's noseband.
A few minutes earlier, the three-year-old, who finished second, failing by inches to catch Vigano, had headbutted and injured his Swedish-born groom Anna Weinsjo while being saddled.
Weinsjo was taken to hospital for an x-ray to her nose and jaw. Her injury was limited to bruising and she was allowed home last night.
The local stewards held an inquiry intoWilson's actions after one of Caprio's part-owners watched a video replay of the incident on At The Races and lodged a complaint with the BHA. Several other viewers criticised Wilson on the Betfair forum, one calling for his dismissal.
The Captain Rio colt has had three trainers this year, Roger Charlton, Jim Boyle, and now Tom Dascombe, who was not at the races yesterday, but said that while the horse was invariably goodnatured at home, he had played up at the races on all three starts for him.
"While I couldn't possibly condone anyone hitting a horse, there was a lot more to this than the 20-second recorded clip shown on At The Races which didn't truly reflect what had gone on beforehand," he said.
"Caprio smashed poor Anna in the face, and had played up so much he had to be resaddled at the start. He proved very difficult to handle down there. On his three runs for me his behaviour has been awful."
The Brighton stewards interviewed Wilson, starter Simon McNeill and Dascombe's representative John Pennington. They also spoke via telephone with jockey Richard Kingscote. It was decided to forward a report to the BHA.
Pennington said: "After Caprio had hurt Anna I led him round the paddock and he was nipping at me, and being difficult. The horse was having a bad day. I'm sure the stalls handler wasn't being vindictive."
Race Tech will hold an internal inquiry within the next few days. Chief executive Brad Higgins said: "We take matters like this very seriously and have our own disciplinary procedure. We've not had an incident of a handler hitting a horse since stalls were introduced in 1964.
"We'll study the television coverage and also receive a report from the team leader at Brighton. If the rules have been transgressed we will take action."

It is not a clear cut black and white issue. While I agree that the horse's long term future in racing should be questioned I also think that the incident has clearly been blown out of proportion. I would like to ask the OP how they would have handled the situation? Faced with a difficult horse, and after having been bitten twice and headbutted how would they suggest the horse be brought back under control to ensure the safety of themselves, other horses, jockeys and fellow handlers?
I know which route I would have taken.
If the horse had been affected in any way by the incident before the start do you honestly think he would have ran the way he did and finish a very close second? The colt does have ability but he needs to harness his potential and maybe being gelded may bring about an improvement in his behaviour. I cannot understand why the prospect of being gelded has not been suggested by any of his former trainers unless it has and it has fallen on deaf ears. His only wins to date have been two nurseries on the AW last backend. He was not an expensive purchase by any means so I really cannot see any stallion potential at all. His sire Captain Rio was no great world beater in fact his biggest wins came in a group 2 race in France as a two-year old and a listed sprint at 3 in Ire. So I really cannot understand why the three-year old has not been gelded as it may just solve his behavioural problems.
 
Come in Oatcake72 your time is up!
Thank you for making this a reasoned argument. Whilst no longer working in racing I have handled some of the best and worst racehorses, both on the flat and over jumps.
This sounds like a typical case of a horse hanging onto his nuts for far longer then sanity should dictate.
I, and nearly everyone I know who has worked in racing, has suffered injury of a varying degree just because an owner thought their colt might turn into something with stallion potential; unfortunately temperement in Thoroughbred race horse sires is not high on their list of attributes.

Without having seen the incident, I'd rather see a bolshy colt weighing the best part of half a ton get a bit of a slap then see it's behaviour deteriorate even more dangerously.
 
A SENIOR starting stalls handler who was bitten twice and headbutted by a fractious colt at Brighton yesterday faces possible disciplinary action by both the BHA and RaceTech because he responded by giving the horse a slap on the nose.

Who else would respond in the same way? I know I would have. It certainly didn't do him any harm if it made him calm down enough to do the job in hand coming a close second

Maybe the part owner that made the original complaint was miffed because it didn't win and was looking to make an excuse why
 
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To the poster who queried the relevance of my police experience- well I would think that working as a specialist rape and sexual offences liaison officer (who also dealt with domestic violence incidents) would give me a fair insight into how and why people lash out in anger/frustration- whatever.

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That would be me, and I'm still struggling to see any parallels between the abuse suffered by rape victims and an experienced stalls handler giving a horse a slap to refocus it. These guys work every day with difficult horses, continually putting themselves in danger to keep horses and jockeys safe and know far more about what to do in that kind of situation than someone who has never done their job. I cannot believe you are comparing him to a rapist or similar.
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As far as the emotive claptrap of ending up en route to the knackers because it had a slap, if it hadn't gone in, and had to pass a stalls test and failed, there's far more likelihood of that route beckoning sooner than later.
Horses frequently change into different animals at the racecourse. I've led up a few horses that are fine at home and turn difficult with the adrenaline rush.

I'd love to see what else you think he should have done.....
 
I think stall handlers are some of the bravest and most experienced horse handlers there are. I know the team that worked at the racecourse I worked at were amazing. I didn't see the incident but if a handler of 25 years experience thought it was required to control the situation instead of out of frustration then good for him. Sadly the tv companies have to answer to the bunny huggers.
 
I havent seen the incident, but from what I can gather he was perfectly justified in what he did.

The colt was out of control and needed his mind to be brought back down to earth - if a quick slap on the nose is what is needed to do this then so be it. It obviously didn't do him any harm at all, and if anything made life a little safer for all those that were near him.

These stalls handlers put their safety on the line every time they go there and handle these animals and this man has obviously been doing this for some time - I think his judgement should be trusted.
 
in the original post, it states that the horse got punched in the face. I have now read in other posts that he was slapped with an open hand, a big difference don't you think.
 
I would have probably done the same as he did. If either of my horses bite me (yes that is a way of telling everyone i have purchased bria finally!!) they get a slap on the nose - neither of them are head shy, neither of them are unhappy and both adore me.
 
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Bloody horse was being a total eejit and needed it. I completely agree with Alice and Francome. It brought the horse out of the strop, they fixed the tack and loaded it and it nearly won.
I don't think 5 years on the police force is a sound enough grounding to pass comment on the difficulties and needs for immediate solutions faced by people working with very fit adrenaline fuelled horses. Have you experience of that?
And an adult hitting a child is hardly comparable to a human giving a horse a slap to refocus it.

Mebbe they should have waved a carrot stick at it instead.....

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Good grief, Im glad Im not your horse...
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Good grief, Im glad Im not your horse...
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[/ QUOTE ]Why?

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Physical force...
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Hmmm......most everyone else on here seems to agree that it was safer for all concerned to give the horse a slap, why are you singling me out?
 
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