Mountain bikers...

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longdog

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On Sunday, my daughter had a grim experience when a mountain biker carreered round the bridlepath & caused her horse to spin & bolt. She shot off the side & now has a fractured shoulder blade & spent 6 hours in A&E after being airlifted from the woods.
My question is - if we are not safe on the roads, are we now not safe on the bridlepaths either?
I know there are plenty of things that a horse can spook from, but we do seem to suffer more from thoughtless cyclists than any thing else here on the Downs.
If it were horse riders galloping past other users, we would be rightly castigated, but, cyclists seem to be a law unto themselves.......

Any suggestions as to what we can do would be gratefully received!
 
Not an awful lot unfortunately as they have the right to be there too.

Do you wear hi viz when you are out? That's something that will at least alert them to the fact that you are there. Also might be worth talking to the local BHS officer, the council or whoever manages the Downs to see if some signs could be put up about horses being in the vicinity.

The other thing I'd do is get the story of this accident to local newspapers, radio etc. You never know, it might just make one or two people think twice before bombing around blind corners etc.

Hope your daughter is okay, I have had shoulder surgery and it's not nice.
 
Not an awful lot unfortunately as they have the right to be there too.
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I agree - although some sort of signage indicating that both horse riders and cyclists use the area, so caution adviced, could work.

I've never had a problem with bikes, they pretty good around here to be fair. But it must have been a scary incident.
 
Poor lass, and you. I guess bikers sometimes get into the speed etc. and don't register who else is about, although I know they should! So far the ones around here have been good.

I hope your daughter heals quickly and well.
 
Yes, she was wearing hi-vis, trouble is when the bikers have their head down, they can't see!
As for giving way, we must have a particularly unpleasant type of mb'er round here as I would say 80% are rude, swearing & not giving way ever :(
 
I think it's a question of educating the MTBers - though how we do it I'm not sure. There is the CTC but that's more for road bikers.
Many on the MTBers use bridleways because they (like horse riders) have no-where else to go.
My OH is a keen cyclist and wishes no harm to horses or riders but is not horsey (doesn't like any animals really) so honestly doesn't know what to do for the best.
Obviously belting up behind a horse a 90mph is a bad idea but he really was unsure what to do ref overtaking horses...should he quietly glide past (slowly) or should he shout to alert the rider of his presence?
I advised that it's probably best to give a cheery "Hello" from a distance so you don't sneak up on the horse. However this is counter-intuitive to most non-horsey people because you're always told not to make loud noises around horses!.

I agree that signs on bridleways cautioning MTBers that horses use these routes would highlight the issue. Maybe also some guidance on how to approach / pass horses.

Just thinking - if we cold come to a consensus on 'rules of the bridleway and how to approach / pass horses' maybe I should write to the MTB magazines and ask them to publish some guidance - this would probably reach the largest audiance.
Suggestions please.......
 
We have the same problem in the woods where we ride. I wear hi viz, flashing lights etc, trouble is when they come so fast round the corner or down a hill, its the skidding and brakes that frighten my horse rather than the bike itself, I had a nasty experience one day, I was on the road entering the woods, there's a path that is steep which points to the road, I heard this noise and shouting, about 4 bikers hurtled out onto the road, my horse span, luckily I kept control, I contacted the council who put up a piece of wood across the path supposedly to slow them down, I thought they'd probably enjoy that and jump it but there you go.

Unfortunately not alot we can do, even more of a pain if you're taking out a youngster, its enough to scare them for life
 
My OH is a keen mountain biker and is always peeved by the fact they also have no where to ride. He uses the bridlepaths around us and is always considerate to anyone he encounters. But then I guess he is just grateful to have somewhere to ride and repescts the fact it is shared by other users!

In your situation longdog it sounds like you've got some pretty horrid bikers and maybe some well placed potholes would help......haha!!

My OH is clued up on horses as he rides himself but unfortunately spooked a horse the other day, he had passed them once (horse was fine!) and met them again on the way back, he came round the bend and made the horse jump, he didn't intentionally tank round the bend and he was very apologetic to the rider, who quite rightly said it was no problem and not to worry. If she had fallen off I imagine her attitude may have been slightly different though!!

On the other hand I have been out on my bike with OH and encountered horse riders, slowed down and given them space for riders to then be ignored. Yes ok we must give way to them but there is no need not to say thanks or even a hello.

Regardless of whether bikes need to give way to horses, I have been stuck behind horses before, they have known I am there and they have still made no effort to move over to let me past. Which could be half the reason why some bikers are rude etc.

On the otherhand, I have had my horse spooked more by walkers and dogs than I have bikers. Especially those walkers that are no where to be seen yet their dogs are happily running all around my horses legs!

When we get on our horses and plan a jolly hack I guess we have to accept the risks and hope we don't meet to many bikers, walkers, pushchairs, off roaders, etc etc! Who ever said hacking was a doddle obviously has never hacked!!
 
I echo what previous posters have said, much of the problem is that cyclists don't know the best way to behave around horse, they normally want to share bridlepaths in a happy and amicable way.

If I were you I would ask the local authority about extra signs warning of horses, asking cyclists to take care and reminding them that they should give way to horses. I would also write to the local press, the CTC and any mountain biking magazines, give them the story of the incident and explain how it could have been avoided. But do it is a friendly and non-hostile way, you are seeking to educate not place blame.

If part of the problem was visibility (a blind bend after a steep downhill perhaps? so the cyclist was going fast and couldn't see until the last minute) it might be worth asking the local authority about putting a gate/stile in to slow cyclists or to cut down the hedge or something.

In future to try and avoid problems, wear hi-viz, including on your hat and don't be afraid to shout out if you can hear a cyclist approaching that may not have seen you. A polite Good Morning or a Slow Please won't be seen as rude. Most cyclists will appreciate not having to slam on the brakes to avoid an accident.

The cyclist in question probably got a nasty shock too, and may have narrowly avoided a fall himself if he skidded.
 
We have a real problem with them by us - they go down the road faster than the cars!! One actually went into the back of my pony last summer (I think I posted about it on here at the time) - she kicked out and the cyclist ended up with a cut on his cheek, he was blooming lucky he didnt get a hoof through his face... I spoke to the police afterwards and they did actually send someone over and did a speed check and several were pulled over for going down the hill faster than 30mph !!!
 
As an ex MTBer I will say that when you are going downhill at speed sometimes you dont see things till the last minute (apparently that is part of the thrill!) and so in the woods Hi Viz is a must. I used to try and wear Hi Viz when on my bike as bike is dark grey and almost invisible. Also, when riding where there were horses I would keep an eye out. But on the horse I also keep and eye- and more inportantly an ear out for anything that may creep up on us. My horse can handle huge lorries on the road, but I last time we encountered a wifey on a bike in bright yellow I ended up on my head on the ground :(. THat was her stopped and us at a walk. So now I always signal for them to stop if they are coming towards us - from behind he isnt bothered.

Horses have right of way over cyclists I believe - well as per the signs round here on the tracks and that ad on tv. It is a pain that they combine the 2 routes.

I agree that maybe contacting one of the MTB mags would be a good idea - if someone who is both a horse rider and a MTB rider could do it even better?

As for the speed thing - yes, it is fast. My ex once clocked over 40mph going down hill. I was behind him and it was NOT fun!
 
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on the roads around my last yard, there used to be "pods ?" of at least 20 cyclists going hell for leather, all over the road. None of them had any horse sense, even tho at that time I was riding in L plates + hi vis. They passed us like we weren't there, and were all shouting to each other - could not believe it tbh. happened at least four times.

The one good thing that came out of it was the boy's response - he was nervous, but didn't do anything daft, and the second time, he was ok with it. But god knows how other horses would react.

Mountain bikers round here are serious too - heads down, full pelt. So busy concentrating, you have to be alert and try and get out of the way. Most of them have earphones in, so shouting doesn't help.

Ah well, at least the peeps on motorbikes are fantastic :) sm x
 
As mentioned before I would happily write to the MTB mags but as I'm not a horse owner or hacker I'm not sure what your 'wish list' is.
Please let me know suggestions on how you would like the MTB community 'educated'
And please don't ask them to pedal VERY slowly and quietly ALL the time - I'm sure they wouldn't fund that much fun - and like you they're out there to enjoy themselves and have a blast (when appropriate)
 
WishfulThinker said:
I agree that maybe contacting one of the MTB mags would be a good idea - if someone who is both a horse rider and a MTB rider could do it even better?
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I wonder if I could get my OH to do a post on his MTB forum for starters?

He's off on a biking adventure in Wales at the moment, but he's back tomorrow night, I will have a word.
 
loopyloop said:
I wonder if I could get my OH to do a post on his MTB forum for starters?

He's off on a biking adventure in Wales at the moment, but he's back tomorrow night, I will have a word.
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Posting on a MBR forum would be a good start. The OP mentioned writing to local papers - thats a good idea too.

As everyone has said, its about educating people. to be fair, a lot of the ones round here are great. I've been shouted at by bikers that I've not noticed behind me asking if they're ok to come past quite a few times, when I'd not noticed them. I always make a big fuss thanking them - saying how lovely of them it was to ask/slow down - that way it sticks in their heads for next time. I think horsey people can often forget to thank cars etc that slow down (so many I slow down for don't even nod) and I think its important, or else they think "sod you" next time!
 
We do get a lot round here on the lanes then heading up onto the Downs but up until now no problem with them, the leader generally shouts out and we wave them past we also get long distance rides ie the London/Hove used to be called the Big H riders know when these rides are and tend to stay off the lanes.
 
Unfortunately for me i live in the same area as one of the biggest and highly sought mountain bike forests :rolleyes::o http://www.afanforestpark.co.uk/
all the bike trails are in my favourite place to ride too lol sods law but luckily enough the bike trails are a bit too trecharous and narrow for riding the horses on so we rarely get the problem of them speeding passed which is quite good because the first time Ayla encountered one i was leading her and she plonked me on the ground and shot off through a cross roads and down a main road :(:eek: then stopped when she realised she was on her own and came to look for 'mum':rolleyes: She`s fine with them now and i tend to know if there something behind because she grunts :p
 
ISHmad said:
Not an awful lot unfortunately as they have the right to be there too.

Do you wear hi viz when you are out? That's something that will at least alert them to the fact that you are there. Also might be worth talking to the local BHS officer, the council or whoever manages the Downs to see if some signs could be put up about horses being in the vicinity.

The other thing I'd do is get the story of this accident to local newspapers, radio etc. You never know, it might just make one or two people think twice before bombing around blind corners etc.

Hope your daughter is okay, I have had shoulder surgery and it's not nice.
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This is great advice. I have also come across such mindless idiots on the Peddar's Way (Norfolk). Local people got so annoyed that they put up locked gates, but it took years for that to happen. I really feel for your daughter and I hope by getting this incident publicised, that another accident is avoided. All the best.
 
I don't mind sharing with cyclists, my husband and son are both keen cyclists and like us horse riders they can struggle to find suitable places to ride, and even then often have to contend with walkers and loose dogs on dedicated cycle tracks.

Those that I meet that aren't so considerate I view as a great opportunity to educate my horse in becoming bombproof, although I have every sympathy with the op, as it sounds like an awful accident, but horseriding is dangerous and there is always the potential for things like this to happen wherever we ride.
The most we can do I feel is try to remain on friendly terms with cycling clubs etc and ask them to educate their members. I've also encountered my fair share of inconsiderate horse riders that to be honest make my blood boil as they make things so much harder for all of us. By tarring all cyclists and wanting to restrict access because of a few inconsiderate ones we could well be creating more problems for horse riders than solving them.

I do think that if we start on the tack that horses are so dangerous that they can't be on the same path as bikes then we risk losing any possible access to cycle tracks in the future, (our council seems more concerned in building these than bridleways due to the increase in cycling) so in my view we need to be looking for ways to share access sensibly and safely.
 
Yup, I've had several near misses with cyclists and mountain bikers in the past; BUT I think the only way forward is to educate them (nicely!) about how to deal with horses when they encounter them, as the vast majority really don't have a clue.

This morning I was out hacking quietly when two girls on bikes came up behind me; luckily my horse knew they were there and so didn't spook too much, and as they passed we had a little chat. I suggested as nicely as I could that if they were coming up behind a horse/horses again, the best thing to do for THEIR safety (i.e. emphasising that rather than griping!!) is when they first see the horse to shout "coming through", or something similar, just to let us know they're there at as early a stage as possible, and then WAIT for the horse-rider to say its OK to pass - rather than pelting past silently like the majority do.

I think we have to somehow try and educate cyclists and if it means writing to all the cycling magazines (politely!) then perhaps we should. Every cyclist I see, I try to keep on good relations with (can't do anything about the ones who whizz past unfortunately coz they've pissed off out the way not giving a damn whether my horse has thrown me or not!).

I hate to say this, and dare to say it, BUT perhaps it needs some idiot of a cyclist to actually get hurt by coming up behind a horse and getting kicked, to actually make this whole issue high profile in the news, or something. This is an awful, terrible thing to say, but I've had too many near misses on the roads with cyclists, and some of them frankly do it on purpose IMO, because when you challenge them about it and ask them nicely please don't do it again all you get is sworn at! There's one around here and all the horse riders have asked him not to come up behind silently and fast, and the stupid prat still does it. If he had a numberplate on, we could report it, but you can't!!! If he causes an accident (and he will one day, I'm afraid), we've got no comeback because we can't identify the culprit. So if he knows his road behaviour is dangerous and continues to do it, and gets kicked in the face and ends up on A&E - then I'm sorry but it'll serve the stupid git right!!
 
They should do something like we saw in Alaska with signs. Basically they have signs on the multi-use trails saying who gives way to who. Dog sleds have prority, next is Horse riders, then XC ski-iers, then bikes, then walkers (though no-one walks in winter as there's far more exciting ways to travel!). There are some trails where only dog sleds are allowed as well.
Must admit I've never had a problem up here but where I ride is remote and it's rare I see anyone else. It's mainly just deer and they do have a habit of waiting till the last minute to launch in front of you!
 
jinglejoys said:
I didn't know we were allowed on cycle tracks oh well whats sauce for the goose......
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We aren't - but I believe that the bhs was campaigning to allow riders to use cycle tracks as well as safer off road routes, there are some being built in my area which horses are allowed on too to link bridleways which is why I believe we should be working with the cycling community in order to join forces for off road access rather than having a 'them' and 'us' mentality.
 
Educating cyclists is the only way to resolve this problem. I ask them to shout 'passing' as they approach horse riders from the rear so as to make both rider and horse aware that they are there.

Apart from wearing Hi-Viz I also carry a whistle just to make people who have not seen me aware that I am there. i.e. shooting parties
 
Cyclists seem to be a breed apart, with very rare exceptions. Professional drivers, lorry, bus and taxi drivers, motorbikers, dog walkers, runners, 'most' car drivers, even teenagers on bikes are thoughtful and considerate.
Cyclists round here are a problem for drivers and horseriders. We've had abuse whilst riding at a walk single file on bridlepaths, bikes laid down blocking paths with no attempt to move them, and large groups appearing suddenly from under bridges on busy A roads looking and sounding like swarms of wasps carrying on at speed regardless while they frightened our otherwise rock solid horses who tried to spin and canter off across the roads. Totally self absorbed and showing no interest in holding up traffic while they cycle in groups .
Even running clubs are more considerate, golfers stop for a moment when they see horses, buses, tractors etc slow down and wave acknowledgement, motorbikers slow down and nod. Am totally at a loss to understand why cyclists behave so differently.
 
Really sorry your daughter has been injured, and nasty at that :(, it seems that some cyclists "expect" to use the Bridleways and seem to think "everyone" should move out of their way, sign of the times I am afraid, you have to ride switched on nearly all the time to avoid bikes dogs walkers, some bikers fly past me when walking my dog in the mornings, gives you a real start sometimes, I have taken to carrying a walking stick with a large brass eagles head on it, if I hear a bike coming I swing it around a lot, it makes them give me a wider berth ;).

When your daughter is back riding she will have to ride more defensibly and be switched on to what to "maybe" round the next bend.
 
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