Mouth Ulcers?? bitless bridles

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LittleMouse

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hello x
we had are two ponies' teeth done today, and the dentist noticed on our mare that she had a row of browny coloured ulcers on both sides inside her cheeks. they were caused by her bit, which is a dutch gag happy mouth. the dentist strongly suggested a bitless bridle or a halter. the only one i really know about is a hackamore, but i think they are quite severe. shes a very sensitive girly, and we dont want her in pain. but shes also quite speedy especially with jumping. some advice greatly needed! poor baby, we want it all sorted, so far she hasnt had to much luck with her teerh (had a cracked tooth removed last year) bless her, she puts up with so much xxx :o
 
Hiya I don't know your pony or how strong she is to ride so was just wondering why a dutch gag is used? Is it used on the normal snaffle bit setting or lower rings to give poll pressure.
I use a dutch gag on one of my horses but he mainly wears it on the snaffle setting now. It is stainless steel and because he takes a large bit 6 1/2 inch then finding suitable bits can be hard as there are not that many available in that size or are indeed affordable.
He can be strong at times and although he doesn't seem to be as strong these days he does have his moments and can quite easily pull the reins from your hands on the normal setting, but with the lower setting used I can have a bit more control.
Is this bit used with two reins or a pelham rounding if it is used on a more severe setting than the snaffle one?
Just asking because roundings or two reins would give the horse a bit more flexibility and the stronger action can be applied when it is needed to.
The reason I say this is because I used to use the bit on one rein on the second ring down as that is what his previous bit was like ( until I got a larger bit as the last one was too small) and rubbed him. I have since discovered that these bits are designed for two reins or roundings.
Does the pony have any rubs on the outer edges of the mouth or just inside?
Forgive me for asking but is the bit the correct size.
I know a lot of people use happy mouth bits as a soft bit for horses and I did myself on a cob for a while. However they don't promote salivation and can have a drying effect in the mouth, hence why these ulcers may have formed due to friction against the gums.
Have you considered changing the bit at all, instead of going bitless?
Why not consider a sweeter metal such as sweet iron that will rust, or copper based bits.
My cob is now in a neue schule and he loves it and he does salivate with it. Even more than he did with his sweet iron one.
 
Fantasy_World said:
Hiya I don't know your pony or how strong she is to ride so was just wondering why a dutch gag is used? Is it used on the normal snaffle bit setting or lower rings to give poll pressure.
I use a dutch gag on one of my horses but he mainly wears it on the snaffle setting now. It is stainless steel and because he takes a large bit 6 1/2 inch then finding suitable bits can be hard as there are not that many available in that size or are indeed affordable.
He can be strong at times and although he doesn't seem to be as strong these days he does have his moments and can quite easily pull the reins from your hands on the normal setting, but with the lower setting used I can have a bit more control.
Is this bit used with two reins or a pelham rounding if it is used on a more severe setting than the snaffle one?
Just asking because roundings or two reins would give the horse a bit more flexibility and the stronger action can be applied when it is needed to.
The reason I say this is because I used to use the bit on one rein on the second ring down as that is what his previous bit was like ( until I got a larger bit as the last one was too small) and rubbed him. I have since discovered that these bits are designed for two reins or roundings.
Does the pony have any rubs on the outer edges of the mouth or just inside?
Forgive me for asking but is the bit the correct size.
I know a lot of people use happy mouth bits as a soft bit for horses and I did myself on a cob for a while. However they don't promote salivation and can have a drying effect in the mouth, hence why these ulcers may have formed due to friction against the gums.
Have you considered changing the bit at all, instead of going bitless?
Why not consider a sweeter metal such as sweet iron that will rust, or copper based bits.
My cob is now in a neue schule and he loves it and he does salivate with it. Even more than he did with his sweet iron one.
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hiya x i think its on the middle ring. we have tried a few different bits before this one. the size down rubbed the outside of her mouth, and this one is rubbing on the inside. i think it might be the plastic, it could be getting rough?? xx :confused:
 
As with any bit or bitless bridle, they are only as harsh as the hands on the other end of the reins. I have tried a Dr. Cooks style bitless bridle on my WB x TB. he is next to impossible to stop when riding in an open space when he's going any faster than walk!! But this bridle literally only needed a little squeeze on the reins and he slowed down to the speed i wanted to go. If you are able to, it may be worth seeing if there is anywhere that lets to trial the bridle so you can try out a few and find which one both you and your horse are happiest with.
 
I swear by Dr Cooks bitless bridles. Google it - they do a 30 day trial & if u don't like it, u get your money back. One of mine is a loony, but she gets on really well with the Dr Cook :-)
 
As others have said the Dr Cooks are fab bridles. I bought one that was in the same style but not the brand as Dr Cook are quite expensive bridles. I found that my cob was strong in it though when out hacking and my partner could not check him in canter/gallop. I was ok though but I have been riding a fair bit longer. However due to this and wanting to be safe the horse was bitted again but we moved to the neue schule bit and he does love it.
Previously his other bits have been a happy mouth straight bar with rubber rings and a sweet iron full cheek snaffle complete with keepers and rubber bit rings.
If you are going to continue down the bit route I cannot recommend the neue schule enough and there is a range of bits available. If you google them you will find that there are a couple of companies that do trials on bits in which you pay so much to use them and then either return, or else you then pay the remaining balance if you decide to keep the bit. See here http://www.horsebitbank.com/ and here http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/
Failing that there are places like ebay but be aware of fakes as I have read on forums that there are copies around. Mine is genuine and I paid around £30 for it including delivery secondhand from ebay. If you didn't want to pay around £80 for a bit though you could trial one then return it and look for an identical one secondhand. There is nothing wrong with secondhand bits so long as they are not damaged or have rough edges. I have both bought and sold bits on ebay and even though people have sometimes sent me bits with rough edges ( in job lots) I have never sold them on to be used. Either been chucked or sold as display use only as some people have bought bits from me to have on the walls as a display. I always give a good wash in boiling water or boiling water with salt added depending on the metal and let it cool before use if I buy a secondhand one.
Other than that then if you want to try the bitless either get a secondhand bitless bridle that is in good condition ( mine was secondhand) or else do as others have suggested and get one on trial, that way you can see if it suits.
I would deffo get rid of that happy mouth though as she either now wants no bit ( either to heal or for the future) or else get one that promotes salivation so she doesn't get the rubs inside. You can also get products you can either spray onto the bit or bit butter ( see here for a description of it, you can get it from other sources too) http://www.horsehealth.co.uk/equine-essentials/skin-care/bit-butter
Good luck xx
 
Was the row of ulcers from the back of the mouth to the front? Or actually at thelevel where the bit sits? If from front to back then its more an issue of the interval between dental treatments being too long and allowing her to get sharp enamel points. If at the level of the bit then it is more likely to be bit related. Are there any sharp edges on the bit? Happy mouths arent particularly robust so they can bite through quite easily and create rough points.
 
Isn't it more likely to be bit related seeing as the dentist advised riding in a bitless bridle or halter? Otherwise why would they suggest this? If it was just to allow the gums to heal wouldn't they advise to do this while they healed or to leave off riding with a bit while it healed.
Also with regard to the ulcers being due to long periods between dental work. That is not entirely true as my mare did have bad ulcers when I first got her but teeth had not been done for some time by previous owners. However I had them done a few weeks ago and she had slight ulcers and yet she was done last December so hadn't even gone twelve months. Considering it had been several, several years since she had her teeth done when I first had her and then she has had them done regularly since and still had slight ulcers then it does vary from horse to horse to be honest.
 
It means the conformation of your horse's mouth is such that the inner mucosal lining of her cheeks is very close to her teeth, which does vary horse to horse. AND shows your horse does not get 10mouths out of a dental treatment -so needs a shorter interval - which does indeed vary from horse to horse - yours needing more regular work to prevent the occurrance than the next horse.

Not necessarily, the most common ulcers are in the lining of the cheek/jaw rather than on the gums and bars of the mouth and these are not a result of using a bit per say. It is not clear where exactly these ulcers are. Also, the dentist isnt always right (is it a BAEDT qualified dentist?)
 
I wouldn't say it is the conformation of her mouth in my case as my vet did say she may need doing more often because he anticipated a lot of growth after his initial work on her teeth. I got charged more that time because he had to do a lot of work and said that it was the worse teeth he has seen on a horse in all his time as a vet and this was no junior but a joint partner in a renowned equine vets in Cheshire!
He also said she had learned behaviour of chewing as her action was completely wrong, also again due to how bad her teeth were. Not just the back molars whose spikes created ulcers on her tongue but also the severe slants on her other teeth. This he corrected with a lot of work as I not only saw these teeth before and after and felt them too.
He was surprised she had been able to eat to be honest, those were his exact words.
Unfortunately I didn't manage to be able to get them done in 6 months time due to personal reasons. However when she went out on temporary loan and I instructed for her teeth to be done. They were done so by a qualified EDT, Dianne Holliday. The report I have shows the work that was done and overall it didn't seem too bad and my vet concurred with it when her teeth were done again in the last few weeks. The only thing that was not mentioned on the report was that she had a dead tooth? in one of her incisors but that it shouldn't cause any problems. I was told this by the loanee. My vet did not say anything about this and didn't pick up on it when he did her teeth. He said that her teeth were in need of doing but were not too bad. This was a different vet though as I do use more than one as I suppose a lot of people do for routine work or for call outs.
They were done by hand this time ( first time was an electric rasp).
But yes I understand all horses are different and their teeth vary according to age, health, diet and quality of grazing/forage since all are instrumental in their affect on them.
Perhaps the OP will enlighten us on to what the dentist was referring the use of a bitless or halter was for, and where and how bad the ulcers were.
All I have ever been told by vets is that they may be a little sore afterwards and to watch what hard feed you give or withdraw for a day and to give some bute, that is all, even when my mare's teeth were really bad. Wish I could have taken photos as I have never seen teeth like them.
 
glenruby said:
It means the conformation of your horse's mouth is such that the inner mucosal lining of her cheeks is very close to her teeth, which does vary horse to horse. AND shows your horse does not get 10mouths out of a dental treatment -so needs a shorter interval - which does indeed vary from horse to horse - yours needing more regular work to prevent the occurrance than the next horse.

Not necessarily, the most common ulcers are in the lining of the cheek/jaw rather than on the gums and bars of the mouth and these are not a result of using a bit per say. It is not clear where exactly these ulcers are. Also, the dentist isnt always right (is it a BAEDT qualified dentist?)
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hiya x Skie has her teeth done every 6 months as we tie her in with our other pony who's teeth grow fast and pointy and need frequent filing x we have a VERY good dentist (best we have ever had!) fully quailified etc. shes pretty sure its the bit......dont know what to do :(
 
at the moment we have not been able to get a bitless bridle, and so have been riding her in her normal bridle with no bit (reigns attached to noseband/cheekpiece) shes been excellent in walk and trot, but did take off in canter. just wondering, is it ok to ride her like this for a bit or will it put pressure in the wrong places?? xxx
 
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