Mouthing advice, for the sake of my flesh!

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scats

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Bess has been with us a week and we seem to have cracked the house training which is great. Now we are dealing with severe biting.
After an initial first quiet day, she hugely came out of her shell. Our old dog is 8 and wasn't a particularly mouthy pup so I'm struggling now with how to deal with this.

Basically if you go to stroke the pup or touch her, she bites you. It started off as gentle mouthing and we were quick to 'yelp' if she bit too hard, but she has got progressively worse over the last week and is now just snapping and clamping on to hands/clothes. We have tried everything- walking away and into another room, she just continues when we come back in. She growls and barks at us in temper as we walk away and grabs hold of our shoes/socks/trousers.

We've tried the loud 'ouch!' and it's having no affect at all. We've tried distracting her with toys, which works for about 3 seconds and then she is launching back at our arms, hands and even faces. She is now just leaping and biting hard straight away. My hands are cut to ribbons as she is puncturing my skin.
She actually had me in tears this morning because she's really hurting me and locking her jaw when she bites and I'm having to extract her teeth from my flesh and clothes constantly.

It's impossible to even praise the times she's is gentle or plays nicely, because she doesn't. Any human interaction is just savage time in her opinion!

We have stopped tolerating any form of mouthing on our skin as she just can't be trusted.

Has anyone had a similar issue? She has a right temper on her aswell, she growls, snarls and curls her lips up and launches into a tirade of barking when we get up and walk away from her.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. My Great Dane X Husky and even my brothers Mali were angels in comparison!
 
Yep, my terrier believes that human hands are for chewing and savaging. We call him the Gremlin as he only does it after dark.
He's now almost 6 months!

I highly recommend "The Bite Stops Here" by Dr Ian Dunbar
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=64170.0;wap2

It has worked for us!
The puppy still savages hands, but like magic there is no broken skin, no marking, etc ... He still needs regular time out when things go too far but I have every confidence that by the time he finishes teething he won't be doing it any more. In our case, the problem is confounded by our older dog who lets him chew on her and enjoys savage wrestling. So he's a bit slow to learn the human rules of play. Nonetheless, he HAS learned that humans skin is fragile hence no more broken skin.

How old is yours? This made me laugh;
She has a right temper on her aswell, she growls, snarls and curls her lips up and launches into a tirade of barking when we get up and walk away from her.
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Mine was the same! GREMLIN! Crocopuppy vampuppy.

Think of behaviour as having consequences. What is the consequence of her snarling and launching at you? It should be something like: All fun ceases now. We used a house lead so we could physically withdraw without him being able to reach us. We also had to leash the other dog or she got involved and of course her input was not helpful. We used house leads for all waking hours until a few weeks ago. Now the only thing that gets snarled and launched at are my trainers (when they're on my feet) at the excitement of going for a walk. The consequence of this is I sit down, no walk. This morning, puppy curled his lip at my trainers then sat down and waited - miracle!
 
OMG, poor you! Who'd have a terrier! I have an 11 week old flatcoat. She would like to play bite or hang off clothing but she is easily removed by her scruff and distracted to toy playing. I have sprayed my trainer laces with bitter apple. Luckily flatcoats don't bark or growl.
I have book called the perfect puppy which has a section on play biting and another on excessive play biting! It does advocate putting on a house line so that you can physically remove the pup.
Sounds like Ian Dunbar's book may help you. Let's hope it's a phase that passes, good luck.
 
Our terrier is 13 weeks now and he was initially very keen on biting. Having tried various softly-softly approaches we eventually resorted to filling a washed out squeezy mayonnaise bottle with water, and squirting him in the face with it whenever he bit, at the same time as saying (loudly) "NO". He was so surprised by the water that it gave us time to extricate ourselves. He's pretty much stopped now - he only bites when very cross or tired. So the squirty bottle method worked well for us...! Ours needs firm handling to the point that I feel mean sometimes, but it's just how he learns. Once he's figured out the boundaries he's a sweetie.
 
Replace your hands with toys! Tug ropes, rubber toys that are good to chew and nice for teething puppies, your local pet shop will have loads I bet. I can't remember what we used to use now - a Nylabone I think? Though he wasn't that keen. Rawhide chews as well, as long as they are big enough to not break off into small bits she could choke on.

They do need to chew, so if she is getting mouthy on you then just distract/redirect her to something that she IS allowed to chew on.

And yes you will need to repeatedly do "time out" etc... Make yourself really boring too, just fold your arms and turn your back and ignore her if she plays up.

Having survived a Manchester Terrier's puppyhood, I know how it feels sometimes - it's like they are plotting against you! But they're not, really; they just don't know any better. You just need to persevere. It's very testing at the time but the puppy days are over in the blink of an eye really.
 
i will probably be told off on here but my terrier puppy ignored any yelping that i did when he bit me and i decided i would not have a snappy terrier so next time he bit i picked him up by his scruff and shook him(not roughly)and said no.. he was growling so i held him up till he calmed down which was only seconds and then made a big fuss of him. he has never bitten since. i tried the softly,softly approach first but felt it would never work...puts tin hat on!!!!!!!
 
You people who have had to get tough with terrier pups are quite right in IMO. The OP said she had tried the distraction with toys route.
Many years ago we had two pups at the same time, not something I would do again, but their different characters were so evident. The minuscule Manchester Terrier pup but was full of aggression, bullying and getting the upper hand, while the Flatcoat was a bumbling ball of fun. It was a shock.
An experienced friend showed us how tough we had to be with the terrier and she turned into a lovely dog. I did decide to stick with flatcoats in the future. I have known lots of very nice terriers, they are just not for me.
Lots of help here OP, I am sure you will crack it.
 
splashgirl45 said:
i will probably be told off on here but my terrier puppy ignored any yelping that i did when he bit me and i decided i would not have a snappy terrier so next time he bit i picked him up by his scruff and shook him(not roughly)and said no.. he was growling so i held him up till he calmed down which was only seconds and then made a big fuss of him. he has never bitten since. i tried the softly,softly approach first but felt it would never work...puts tin hat on!!!!!!!
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Chiffy said:
You people who have had to get tough with terrier pups are quite right in IMO.
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Haha that is a relief, I was also getting my tin hat on in preparation for the flak anticipated for our squeezy bottle blast method!
 
splashgirl45 said:
i will probably be told off on here but my terrier puppy ignored any yelping that i did when he bit me and i decided i would not have a snappy terrier so next time he bit i picked him up by his scruff and shook him(not roughly)and said no.. he was growling so i held him up till he calmed down which was only seconds and then made a big fuss of him. he has never bitten since. i tried the softly,softly approach first but felt it would never work...puts tin hat on!!!!!!!
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This ! No way would I tolerate a puppy growling and having a go at me .
 
I wouldn't be having that...I don't subscribe to squeaking, pulling away or any movement or emotion which basically makes you prey. Activity and noise will not help.
I had a very bitey puppy but he was always redirected to a toy before things escalated and if they did he was immediately isolated with a time out. And I did a lot of work on manners. He is a feisty dog but if he has a toy or ball in his mouth and I put my hand on it, it belongs to me and he lets go of it because this is what he knows. I did this with another dog recently that doesn't have half the spunk of mine and nearly lost the top of my finger. It's just rude.

A house line will certainly help.
It's your house. Do not walk away from her.
I'd also be wanting to address the fact that she may not like being touched or restrained. Not all dogs enjoy stroking or cuddling and that is fine.
However dogs need to be groomed, taken to the vets etc and for me this is non negotiable. You should be able to put your hands on your dog without having their teeth on you.

Stay strong and require your thinking a bit if you can. No one would let a toddler behave like this and the same rules apply for pups.
 
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CorvusCorax said:
I wouldn't be having that...I don't subscribe to squeaking, pulling away or any movement or emotion which basically makes you prey. Activity and noise will not help.
I had a very bitey puppy but he was always redirected to a toy before things escalated and if they did he was immediately isolated with a time out. And I did a lot of work on manners. He is a feisty dog but if he has a toy or ball in his mouth and I put my hand on it, it belongs to me and he lets go of it because this is what he knows. I did this with another dog recently that doesn't have half the spunk of mine and nearly lost the top of my finger. It's just rude.

A house line will certainly help.
It's your house. Do not walk away from her.
I'd also be wanting to address the fact that she may not like being touched or restrained. Not all dogs enjoy stroking or cuddling and that is fine.
However dogs need to be groomed, taken to the vets etc and for me this is non negotiable. You should be able to put your hands on your dog without having their teeth on you.

Stay strong and require your thinking a bit if you can. No one would let a toddler behave like this and the same rules apply for pups.
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Great advice.
 
I am so pleased that some posters have said 'don't tolerate it' I have never understood why anyone would think that squeaking in pain or leaving the room would in any way teach a puppy not to bite......Has anyone watched a mature dog, particularly a bitch, discuss biting with a puppy? we have had probably 000's of dogs over many years of dog ownership and training and my husband would probably burst if anyone suggested squeaking in pain as an effective discipline........We have trained spaniels,(cockers, springers & clumbers) labs, lurchers, whippets and other running dogs, terriers of all sorts,, flat coats, GSDs and crossbreds to be civilised, friendly, family dogs with many going on to be good, steady obedient gun dogs with the same principles of fair handling, clear guidelines and very occasionally a little bit of discipline! We have never used an electric collar either! Please don't let a puppy do that (or anything really!)if needed a scruff, a shake and a serious growl=y No from you should sort it. Be fair and consistent but set some boundaries. Rant over!
 
Indeed. I've seen many a cheeky pup get a flying lesson from mum (disclaimer....I am not advocating flinging a pup out of a whelping box, and yes, I know dogs don't think we're their mums, just making the point) for getting a bit above themselves.

And should have said 'rewire' not require. Silly autocorrect.

And and and I saw a pup wearing a muzzle last week. Couldn't believe it....
 
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Thanks everyone. I'm not soft, she got a good telling off yesterday and was put into a room on her own for a few minutes. Today she was a bit less demonic at first and then she started, but we are completely having a no tolerance of any tooth to skin contact.

She's currently flat out asleep. She's very cute when she's asleep!
 
splashgirl45 said:
i will probably be told off on here but my terrier puppy ignored any yelping that i did when he bit me and i decided i would not have a snappy terrier so next time he bit i picked him up by his scruff and shook him(not roughly)and said no.. he was growling so i held him up till he calmed down which was only seconds and then made a big fuss of him. he has never bitten since. i tried the softly,softly approach first but felt it would never work...puts tin hat on!!!!!!!
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Of course, it is what his mother would do! What earthyly good is 'yelping' or saying 'ouch' supposed to do? A very firm 'NO!' makes far more sense imo, unless the dog is going to be in charge of the household for ever.
 
there have been lots of dog trainers who say when a pup bites to make a noice like another puppy would so they understand they have gone too far...i had never had a bitey puppy before as i have had lurchers and collies so tried this idea with my terrier pup and also replaced my hands with toys as dog trainers suggest. as neither of them worked i did what came naturally to me and he doesnt seem to hold it against me..he is currently snuggled up on my lap....spoilt, yes i think so.....
 
Oh dear I am so old school - I simply thought 'smack the puppy'........ my lurcher pup is around a year old and she is very mouthy, although oddly soft-mouthed for a lurcher - I wouldn't tolerate her going past acceptable parameters, she doesn't but I would firmly reprimand her if she did
 
Tough love from me too, if its not nipped in the bud now(excuse the pun) it could well escalate, pups are well able to understand boundaries so the quicker they are taught the better.
 
Lévrier;13606955 said:
Oh dear I am so old school - I simply thought 'smack the puppy'........ my lurcher pup is around a year old and she is very mouthy, although oddly soft-mouthed for a lurcher - I wouldn't tolerate her going past acceptable parameters, she doesn't but I would firmly reprimand her if she did
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It's not just you....we've definitely resorted to a quick smack round the backside once or twice! It seems to have got the point across and as he now seems to be setting himself up as a lapdog (whatever happened to no dogs on the sofa...) he doesn't seem to hold it against us either
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Of course, it is what his mother would do! What earthyly good is 'yelping' or saying 'ouch' supposed to do? A very firm 'NO!' makes far more sense imo, unless the dog is going to be in charge of the household for ever.
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maybe it depends on the breed. all of my dogs are or have been exceptionally soft mouthed and its been achieved by yelping and ceasing all attention and walking away. I guarantee that if I am playing with my dogs and I said 'ouch' loudly for any reason, they would immediately stop what they were doing. I'm not saying that I wouldn't escalate it with a repeat offender or smack them on the bum if required for something else-but as far as mouthy pups are concerned, I've not had an issue at all with gun dog breeds and collies.Never had a pup growl at me either but then never had a terrier.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
maybe it depends on the breed. all of my dogs are or have been exceptionally soft mouthed and its been achieved by yelping and ceasing all attention and walking away. I guarantee that if I am playing with my dogs and I said 'ouch' loudly for any reason, they would immediately stop what they were doing. I'm not saying that I wouldn't escalate it with a repeat offender or smack them on the bum if required for something else-but as far as mouthy pups are concerned, I've not had an issue at all with gun dog breeds and collies.Never had a pup growl at me either but then never had a terrier.
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terriers are nothing like the gun dog or collie breeds...my collie cross has never been hit or even shouted at. i just need to tell her something once and she seems to understand and never challenges me. the terrier puppy challenges everything and i have to be very assertive .. today he was chewing the edge of the mat, i said no and removed him from the mat, this went on for about 4 or 5 times and eventually he left it....i have had terriers before so its not a surprise but i have been spoilt by how easy the collie is..still i love him though especially when he is asleep on my lap....
 
MotherOfChickens said:
maybe it depends on the breed. all of my dogs are or have been exceptionally soft mouthed and its been achieved by yelping and ceasing all attention and walking away. I guarantee that if I am playing with my dogs and I said 'ouch' loudly for any reason, they would immediately stop what they were doing. I'm not saying that I wouldn't escalate it with a repeat offender or smack them on the bum if required for something else-but as far as mouthy pups are concerned, I've not had an issue at all with gun dog breeds and collies.Never had a pup growl at me either but then never had a terrier.
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I think you have got it absolutely right there MoC - Millie is a tough little nut as a lurcher but she also has a very sensitive side, unfortunately I might have made it sound like I was always smacking her but this definitely isn't the case, it is the right reaction for the right situation for me
 
Well she's still doing it. We've got really tough with her and she's been shouted at sternly, bum flicked (lightly but enough so that she felt it) and taken into another room for a couple of minutes. Nothing has worked, she has a massive temper and just comes back at you within seconds. So this issue is still a work in progress!
I've also tried clapping loudly to scare her, she looks a bit shocked for half a second and then dives back on me and sinks her teeth in straight away.
She's currently having a major tantrum because I've just put her on the floor because she was savaging me and my clothes.
 
Stanley, the 10 week old BT had started to become "mouthy" I don't do an ouch, I do a very loud high pitched noise which stops him short, if he does it again, same noise and no further interaction, third time and he's "put away". It's pretty much stopped him, just needs the occasional reminder. God knows what my neighbour thinks is going on though!I suspect they think OH is a wife beater.
 
Its taken time to get to this stage so it will take time to stop. She's been getting away with it and now the rules are changing.

Pick something and stick to it. Don't chop and change, it's not fair. On a related matter, where was she before you put her on the floor? Because that's where she should be staying in my opinion.

Is this the Corgi x Cockerpoo? That's a feisty mix and if she was farm bred you're fighting a combination of an opinionated little moo with feral tendencies.
(Apologies if I am mixing you up).


What kind of training are you contemplating to get her to accept being handled? Which to me is a bigger issue than the biting, which is a manifestation of your main problem.
 
Lévrier;13607435 said:
I think you have got it absolutely right there MoC - Millie is a tough little nut as a lurcher but she also has a very sensitive side, unfortunately I might have made it sound like I was always smacking her but this definitely isn't the case, it is the right reaction for the right situation for me
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no, not at all! but others did say that they can't imagine the yelping/squeaking etc working at all, and I know it has done with the breeds I've had.
 
scats, pups that behave as yours does have no respect for you. Time that darling puppy learned some manners, and a hearty slap across the chops, timed perfectly should put an end to such conduct. For as long as you permit such conduct, then it will continue. Would you tolerate it if I behaved like that towards? …….. No, I din't think so, so why tolerate it from a dog? :D

Alec.
 
Yelping has just made it more exciting I'd say- it needs to be done in the right way.
It's not'temper' its frustration - she wants to play and is doing it the only way she knows how
Lift her and put her in time out until she is calmer.
Even better say in a bored voice not yours when she bites and replace with a toy
Don't shake/hit/squirt her - the most likely thing to happen is not that she wills top biting but that she will increase the energy and as she gets older will start biting properly
At this age the puppy isn't 'pushing its boundaries' etc - it is just acting the only way it knows and this is a normal phase 0 give it a couple of weeks and it will settle - particularly as she learns plkaying with toys is more fun, more rewarding and lasts longer than nipping people.
 
Scats if you haven't got a copy already, get "The perfect puppy" by Gwen Baley. Theres a really helpful chapter on behaviour control and leadership and another on controlling biting and aggression. I find keeping two special toys to myself and they are the ones Stanley likes best, is very helpful for lots of different purposes including distracting from unwanted behaviour and demonstrating leadership ie I control the resources. Worth a look anyway, nothing worse than being savaged in your own home by the family pet. Good luck, puppies eh!
 
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