Move to full livery = change in behaviour......any ideas folks?

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Chunky_Monkey

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Hi all. I love love love this forum
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but rarely post (I never feel that I'm clever enough to be able to contribute anything useful
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). I'm really concerned about my horse, and I'd really be grateful for your opinions on his change of behaviour since he moved to full livery (from DIY).

He moved mid October, travelled fantastically, and was very chilled when he arrived at the new yard. He was on individual turn-out for a week but could speak to other horses over the fence (he was used to this as he'd been alone on restricted grazing all summer since having laminitis in April). He now has a friend (another porky chap!), and they share a small-ish well-grazed paddock with a shelter. He has two tiny feeds a day (his feed is the same as what I fed him when on DIY), but he's not been having any hay as of yet (they have been grazing the paddock down first). He's currently out 24-7 unrugged (will be coming in overnight from this weekend). Even though he's on full livery, I try to get to the yard most days (have only missed 4 days since we moved), and his routine is very similar to before he moved.

The wierd behaviour is this:
- when I bring him in, he refuses to go back off the yard and to the paddock. He just plants himself and will not move.
- as a complete contradiction, on a couple of occasions he has not wanted to be caught in the paddock.
- he seems to be very 'dull' and a bit depressed. He's a typical cob, very laid back and quiet by nature, but can be a bit spooky and quite forward going when ridden. However, since the move, he's been completely unmotivated, backward thinking and lazy when ridden. I'm making sure I don't ride/work him every time I bring him in (I often just bring him in and groom him/give him a haynet and a cuddle).

To be honest, I personally think the behaviour could be entirely related to food.......I think he associates the yard with being fed haylege and nice things (although he's been having his bucket feed in the paddock), so he's reluctant to leave it. I also think the lack of energy could stem from him having very little 'fuel in the tank' at the moment. There is grass in the paddock, but it's obviously of very little nutritional value at the moment, and his bucket feed is tiny. He's not lost any weight since we moved, but I think he's using the calories he's eating to keep his body weight up and not using them when being ridden/worked (it's very gentle work, as he's not very fit, but he's not even coping with very gentle work!).

For example, I tried loose-schooling him yesterday (really with the hope that I might razz him up a bit - he loves loose schooling
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).....he plodded round like he was on his way to the knacker's yard, and stood in the middle of the school yawning his head off
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A few other things......he's very hairy at the moment and does sweat up when worked (even gently) so I'm planning to give him a little clip to see if that makes a difference - he could just be too hot! Also, I trust the YO 100%, so there's no doubt that he's being well looked after in my absence. The yard is very laid back and relaxed (actually a retirement yard), so I'm also considering that he might just be completely relaxed there and this is how it's going to be.....transformation from turbo cob to ploddy cob!

Any ideas anyone?
 
Difficult one - are you sure he hasn't got a mild case of lami which is not enough to look lame but enough to make him reluctant to move? How old is he and has he normally got as hairy as he has this year?
 
Was he out 24/7 before? My lad went out full time in June. He is a Suffolk Punch cross, so classed as cobby a lot of the time. He was never forward as such, but always kept up with other horses we were out with. Now, however, he just cannot be bothered. He is so laid back, he is almost asleep all the time. I go in first thing in the mornings to give him breakfast, and more often than not, he is the other side of the field. He comes plodding over without a care in the world. Most horses would rush over.
 
Another idea - does he get a balancer or vit/min supplement at all? If he is on restricted feed then he may be missing out on some nutrients which is making him feel a bit down.
 
It might just be that he is ultra relaxed, with a new friend to chill with, on a peaceful yard. Or maybe you are right and he is lacking turbo fuel
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.
If he were mine, I'd try feeding him a bit (hay in the field maybe, or a teeny bit of hard feed), and maybe also get bloods done if I was concerned.
Hope he's ok
 
Hi there....yes, I have to admit I have been slightly concerned about there being an underlying physical cause. But in most other ways he seems normal....normal appetite, pleased to see me, I've seen him tearing round the paddock with his friend a couple of times playing.

He doesn't have any raised pulses, and doesn't seem to be foot sore or pottery at all (that was the first sign when he had lami in April).. He does struggle a bit with tight turns, but he's always been like that - the EP wasn't sure if that was anything to do with his feet or just his body shape (he's a Tonka-toy of a chunky cob!).

He's 12 and he's always been very hairy (I've had him 5 years). I normally have to clip him all year round. He's been tested for cushings (negative) but is insulin resistant and has metabolic syndrome (which was the trigger for his lami).

Tracey x
 
Hi, yes, he was out 24/7 at the old yard, and he was on very limited grazing there (so he's used to getting by on the bare minimum grass).

He just seems really really chilled out, which is a good thing
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, but he's just a bit too laid back! So much that's it's bordering on being worrying
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Tracey x
 
Hi

Yes, he has Baileys Lo-Cal at about 2/3 recommended levels (cos he also has stacks of other supplements - magnesium, linseed, brewer's yeast, vit E, milk thistle) all with a bit of Hi Fi Lite.

x
 
he just sounds as if he's lacking energy, to me. it has been very cold some nights, and he's probably using a lot of energy to keep warm, esp if he's not getting much hay or haylage. the grass at the moment has hardly any nutritional value.
i think i'd give him a week with a bit of heating but non-fattening feed, and see what that did, tbh.
the regime (tons of turnout with a friend, you going up and sometimes only fussing him etc) sounds ideal. not wanting to go back out might well be "if i stay here i might get more grub"...
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Hi there.....yes, I'm hoping it's the 'ultra-relaxed' explanation....I think I can cope with long leisurely plods around the countryside on a non spooky calm horsey!
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He's starting to come in overnight from this weekend. He's not particularly keen on being stabled, and of course he'll be getting haylege to eat in the stable, so maybe I'll see a more energetic side of him emerging! We'll see......
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I will definately get bloods done if the stabling doesn't prompt a change in him.

Tracey x
 
Hi kerilli

That was my first thought (I know him so well, and he just doesn seem like an ill horse). Maybe being stabled overnight and stuffing his face with haylege from this weekend will perk him up! I think he may have been using his energy to keep warm (and to grow his coat - he's like a polar bear!)...like I said, he's not dropped any weight yet.

I will see how it goes after the weekend....thanks for the input everyone
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x
 
Hi,

My chap was showing these signs a few years ago and he was anaemic which only showed itself in a blood test, each year I have this blood test done and again for no reason this year he is like it again, maybe worth running a blood test?
 
Hi TOG, I think if he doesn't perk up very soon, I'll definately have a blood test done. He was anaemic this time last year, now I come to think about it. Maybe it's something to do with the change in the grass, or the coat change. I know some horses can get a bit 'down' when they are changing their coats.

I tell you, I worry more about my horse than I do about my son! Bad mommy!

Tracey x
 
Chloe went quite depressed and slow a few months ago, to the point where she didn't have the energy to trot past parked cars.
It was down to having a very hairy coat among other things.

We gave her some 'red cell' or 'propell plus' (can't remember which, but they're similar), along with a much-needed clip and it has really perked her up again.
 
This time of year is very common for aneamia (sp) but most of it goes unnoticed to be honest, I only started doing the blood test annually because he went down hill so quickly, although I didn't notice a thing this year,he's bright as a button but his blood count was quite low! Now who is a bad mummy
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On top of this his red blood cells are too few and too big
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so his body is trying to deal with something...

Let us know how he is next week.
 
Hi Fairhill.....Archie had a course of Propell last year when he was anaemic, and it did pick him up. If he's no better after being stabled overnight for a week or so, I will definately get him blood tested. And, like you say, a much needed clip is in order!

Tracey x
 
My first thought was he needs more fibre in his stomach. I don't know what your paddocks are like, but here there is virtually nothing to eat, and waht there is to eat probably has little energy at this time of yr. I would be giving him hay if I were you.
That couple with pink powders or a vit/mineral supplement.
 
Hi Mickey, yes, I think he's probably "running on empty". He'll be coming in overnight from this weekend, so I hope I'll see a turn-around in him. I think the YO wanted them to eat down the paddock before she started haying them, but there really is very little grass in there for them now.

He'll be having plenty of soaked haylege overnight, supplemented by some good quality straw to munch on, so he should have a fuller tum!

Tracey x
 
I think I would cut down the feeds and ask for hay instead, he sounds hungry to me. It may also be that he is feeling his feet again so get the farrier to check then when he next comes.
It shouldn't really be underestimated what effect a change has on a horse when moving homes, he may miss his former mates, or even loathe the one he is turned out with.
Having settled lots of new horses in here I would say he won't feel totally comfortable for around three months, that 12 week space seems to be the cut off for accepting they now live where they do.
If you want him lively re feed then ring Saracen, they do a special feed for this aimed at laminitic or horses that tie up.
I think clipping him should be a priority, if he's a chunky cob he will soon get livelier once he stops sweating, and any feed you give him will go into energy not growing a humungous coat.
My gut instinct though is his feet, so do get someone to look at them..he may just be suffering another laminitic phase which you should sort before you change any feed etc.
 
Thanks Henryhorn........there's just so many things to consider! My very first thought was that he was still unsettled and a bit 'shell-shocked' from the move, but in the past, when he's been unsettled, he's shown it by being stroppy and turbo charged! It just like he's withdrawn into his shell a bit this time........so then I thought he may be unwell.....but in other respects he seems himself and quite perky. I've been checking his pulses daily, nothing, and he doesn't seem to be footsore (he's always a little careful over sharp stones, but no more than usual at the moment).

I've mulled it all over in my head...I'm going to clip him this afternoon, to see if that helps. He started coming in overnight from last night, so the added hay he'll be getting may well show an improvement.

I can also ask the YO to hay them in the day in the paddock, so that's an option.

His feet were only trimmed a week ago, but the farrier comes to the yard regularly. I might get him to hoof-test them when he comes next....although I did ask him about the laminitis when he trimmed them last week, and he said there was absolutely no outward sign of any laminitis past or present, and that his feet were great (had been previously trimmed by an EP).

Aargh, if only they could talk!

Thanks again

Tracey x
 
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