Moving for private hacking liveries-Cornwall or Herefordshire?

[Tiddlypom]

Coming originally (born and bred) from Devon, I can understand some of the apparent antipathy to incomers. Devon and Cornwall are simply submerged in tourists in summer. Retirees crowd down to buy their retirement homes, get fed up with the poor infrastructure and medical provisions, sell up and leave.

Vets, doctors, ambulances just can't get around as the narrow single track lanes are jammed with vehicles whose visitor drivers are apparently unable to find reverse gear.

 

[Starzaan]

Coming originally (born and bred) from Devon, I can understand some of the apparent antipathy to incomers. Devon and Cornwall are simply submerged in tourists in summer. Retirees crowd down to buy their retirement homes, get fed up with the poor infrastructure and medical provisions, sell up and leave.

Vets, doctors, ambulances just can't get around as the narrow single track lanes are jammed with vehicles whose visitor drivers are apparently unable to find reverse gear.

I totally understand this view, as I grew up in the Cotswolds which is heaving with tourists all year round, some of whom are utter plonkers (obviously the majority are fabulous, but when you come home and find a family having a picnic in your garden, it's a bit much!). However, I have really noticed that in Cornwall there's a big difference. Whilst maybe we're a tad guarded in the Cotswolds, I can't think that the vast majority of workmen would deliberately overcharge people simply because they weren't local, or be deliberately rude and unfriendly to them.

 

[palo1]

I totally understand this view, as I grew up in the Cotswolds which is heaving with tourists all year round, some of whom are utter plonkers (obviously the majority are fabulous, but when you come home and find a family having a picnic in your garden, it's a bit much!). However, I have really noticed that in Cornwall there's a big difference. Whilst maybe we're a tad guarded in the Cotswolds, I can't think that the vast majority of workmen would deliberately overcharge people simply because they weren't local, or be deliberately rude and unfriendly to them.

I am (technically) Cornish and adore Cornwall but I don't live there and probably wouldn't choose to go back. Not because the locals aren't friendly; that isn't something we have ever experienced even when we have been staying there as tourists but because of the utter despoilation of parts of Cornwall through the second homes and rental market. The summer visitors make doing anything quite difficult but I loathe the commercialisation of all and anything Cornish. Having said that, a great many locals feel totally sold down the swanee thanks to the huge number of second home owners, holiday home owners etc and the reliance on the tourist trade. I think it is dire that incomers are treated badly but I do understand it on a visceral level, especially where local trades struggle to make money or find ANY housing for their own families. It is not a good situation and other parts of the UK really need to think about how to manage all that or they face the same issues.

 

[Starzaan]

I am (technically) Cornish and adore Cornwall but I don't live there and probably wouldn't choose to go back. Not because the locals aren't friendly; that isn't something we have ever experienced even when we have been staying there as tourists but because of the utter despoilation of parts of Cornwall through the second homes and rental market. The summer visitors make doing anything quite difficult but I loathe the commercialisation of all and anything Cornish. Having said that, a great many locals feel totally sold down the swanee thanks to the huge number of second home owners, holiday home owners etc and the reliance on the tourist trade. I think it is dire that incomers are treated badly but I do understand it on a visceral level, especially where local trades struggle to make money or find ANY housing for their own families. It is not a good situation and other parts of the UK really need to think about how to manage all that or they face the same issues.

I totally understand this too as the Cotswolds has similar problems with second home owners and holiday lets - some of the lovely villages I knew so well are now mostly empty for the vast majority of the year which is desperately sad.
The sad thing we have experienced is that local tradesmen all seem to want to just rip us off. It ended up being almost £16k cheaper for my mother to have her gardeners from the Cotswolds drive down and stay in Cornwall for two weeks to do the work she needed, than it was to use any of the seven Cornish firms who quoted (five of whom then dropped off the face of the earth when she responded saying she wanted to go ahead). I know she has probably been desperately unlucky, but the attitude just feels very different in Cornwall to anything we have ever experienced before.

 

[palo1]

I totally understand this too as the Cotswolds has similar problems with second home owners and holiday lets - some of the lovely villages I knew so well are now mostly empty for the vast majority of the year which is desperately sad.
The sad thing we have experienced is that local tradesmen all seem to want to just rip us off. It ended up being almost £16k cheaper for my mother to have her gardeners from the Cotswolds drive down and stay in Cornwall for two weeks to do the work she needed, than it was to use any of the seven Cornish firms who quoted (five of whom then dropped off the face of the earth when she responded saying she wanted to go ahead). I know she has probably been desperately unlucky, but the attitude just feels very different in Cornwall to anything we have ever experienced before.

Yes, I hear you. I think some areas of Cornwall are increasingly militant/unfriendly though there hasn't been a kind of formal way/place for expressing that so it ends up with individuals being treated badly rather than a system-facing challenge. God knows, some parts of Cornwall are a whole universe away from the luxury of seaside towns and the flow of wealth so I have some sympathy. I also recognise the difficulties for those being offered huge sums of money, life changing sums in certain cases, to sell or let their houses out (both in Cornwall and other places) but it still leaves communities pretty much worse off and rumbling discontent and hostility. Really sad. I remember the Cotswolds when I was a child as I had a great friend living near Stow on the Wold. Things have certainly changed....

 

[paddy555]

The sad thing we have experienced is that local tradesmen all seem to want to just rip us off. It ended up being almost £16k cheaper for my mother to have her gardeners from the Cotswolds drive down and stay in Cornwall for two weeks to do the work she needed, than it was to use any of the seven Cornish firms who quoted (five of whom then dropped off the face of the earth when she responded saying she wanted to go ahead). I know she has probably been desperately unlucky, but the attitude just feels very different in Cornwall to anything we have ever experienced before.

isn't it common that some tradesmen quote a very high price because they don't really want the work, they have plenty of other work. They work on the view that if someone wants to accept a totally excessive price they will do it but most likely the customer will find someone else. Probably would be better if they just turned the work down.

If Cornwall is anything like Devon it is impossible to find anyone to work. I wonder if workmen in Cornwall simply have too much work. All the 2nd home owners need workmen to maintain their properties and gardens.

 

[palo1]

isn't it common that some tradesmen quote a very high price because they don't really want the work, they have plenty of other work. They work on the view that if someone wants to accept a totally excessive price they will do it but most likely the customer will find someone else. Probably would be better if they just turned the work down.

If Cornwall is anything like Devon it is impossible to find anyone to work. I wonder if workmen in Cornwall simply have too much work. All the 2nd home owners need workmen to maintain their properties and gardens.

Yes, I think you are right @paddy555. My OH, who is a builder struggles to take on new clients because of the amount of existing work he has. Because of issues that other trades have faced if he is persuaded to go and price a job for significant improvement (sometimes people ring imploring him to go) then he will quote a very high price; partly because of uncertainty about what is required and/or needed and partly because he can't really take the work on and assumes that someone else local (he usually has an idea of who might take it on) will do it.

I think here, a lot of the local trades have had difficult experiences with people new to the area; in terms of their expectations around lots of things - not least their relationship with tradesmen. That is definitely not to say that new customers are not lovely but generally my OH and his fellows are used to quite long established clients and there can be some issues around communication etc with new ones so there isn't always a massive incentive to take new clients on. I hadn't really considered how that might 'feel' to someone new in the community tbh. I don't think it is in any way meant to be unwelcoming actually; it's much more logistical usually. However my OH has found that in some cases new clients are used to very different ways of working and communicating; it's small things but for eg a new customer coming from the SE is never there when he is working, he is never offered a drink, customer leaves messages and emails which are more 'directive' than discussive and those are things that he is simply not used to. Many of his existing clients ARE on the property when he is there, offer drink (and often food), often want to have a very direct involvement in the project and accept that at certain times of year he will need to work differently to cope with his farming/other committments. That is really, really normal here but clearly not what some people new to this lifestyle expect. It can lead to hassle and frustration that OH neither needs nor wants.

ETA - I also think that incoming customers can be seen as higher risk; in terms of payment etc etc and that can lead to some reluctance to take them on, especially where that may mean de-prioritising an existing reliable customer. A lot of trades can't afford to take those risks.

 

[paddy555]

Yes, I think you are right @paddy555. My OH, who is a builder struggles to take on new clients because of the amount of existing work he has. Because of issues that other trades have faced if he is persuaded to go and price a job for significant improvement (sometimes people ring imploring him to go) then he will quote a very high price; partly because of uncertainty about what is required and/or needed and partly because he can't really take the work on and assumes that someone else local (he usually has an idea of who might take it on) will do it.

I think here, a lot of the local trades have had difficult experiences with people new to the area; in terms of their expectations around lots of things - not least their relationship with tradesmen. That is definitely not to say that new customers are not lovely but generally my OH and his fellows are used to quite long established clients and there can be some issues around communication etc with new ones so there isn't always a massive incentive to take new clients on. I hadn't really considered how that might 'feel' to someone new in the community tbh. I don't think it is in any way meant to be unwelcoming actually; it's much more logistical usually. However my OH has found that in some cases new clients are used to very different ways of working and communicating; it's small things but for eg a new customer coming from the SE is never there when he is working, he is never offered a drink, customer leaves messages and emails which are more 'directive' than discussive and those are things that he is simply not used to. Many of his existing clients ARE on the property when he is there, offer drink (and often food), often want to have a very direct involvement in the project and accept that at certain times of year he will need to work differently to cope with his farming/other committments. That is really, really normal here but clearly not what some people new to this lifestyle expect. It can lead to hassle and frustration that OH neither needs nor wants.

ETA - I also think that incoming customers can be seen as higher risk; in terms of payment etc etc and that can lead to some reluctance to take them on, especially where that may mean de-prioritising an existing reliable customer. A lot of trades can't afford to take those risks.

I could have written every word of this and most especially your 2nd para.

I think another thing is that people moving into the area from afield see it as a great occasion. They have the money to work on these properties, to put work local tradesmen's way, to want to be friendly, they often have plenty of time to talk etc etc..
What they may see as unfriendliness is more the local population just getting on with their own lives and many have little interest in newcomers. The locals have their own jobs, they are not well off they have to work, and many also have their own bit of land, poultry, calves or whatever and just no time nor anything in common with the new people so they are regarded by some as being unfriendly.

 

[palo1]

I could have written every word of this and most especially your 2nd para.

I think another thing is that people moving into the area from afield see it as a great occasion. They have the money to work on these properties, to put work local tradesmen's way, to want to be friendly, they often have plenty of time to talk etc etc..
What they may see as unfriendliness is more the local population just getting on with their own lives and many have little interest in newcomers. The locals have their own jobs, they are not well off they have to work, and many also have their own bit of land, poultry, calves or whatever and just no time nor anything in common with the new people so they are regarded by some as being unfriendly.

Yes, that is absolutely my experience too. OH is extremely loyal to his customers and they know they can call him out any time (We have had people turning up at a NYD lunch to find OH - but no problem with that) so he does not want to put them further down the list if they have work for him and much of that is scheduled years in advance. He is also wary of some of the requests that people make....one potential client got him to price removing an entire gable end wall on the property to be replaced with a full glass window/wall. No matter how OH tried to explain about the prevailing wind and the significant weather that would (and did) batter this wall the client was insistent that they had moved there to take advantage of the views. It really is a MAGNIFICENT view but OH over priced the job because he was certain that no way could he do the work and keep the weather out and client happy. It was the politest way of getting out of that situation as the client did seem lovely and really wanted to employ a local builder. 5 years on and that gable end wall is still stone...

 

[Starzaan]

I could have written every word of this and most especially your 2nd para.

I think another thing is that people moving into the area from afield see it as a great occasion. They have the money to work on these properties, to put work local tradesmen's way, to want to be friendly, they often have plenty of time to talk etc etc..
What they may see as unfriendliness is more the local population just getting on with their own lives and many have little interest in newcomers. The locals have their own jobs, they are not well off they have to work, and many also have their own bit of land, poultry, calves or whatever and just no time nor anything in common with the new people so they are regarded by some as being unfriendly.

I totally understand this, however, the level of unfriendliness my mother has received has been so much more. I was there when a workman (who she is since having to take to court) screamed in her face, called me the c word, smashed a gate, and said he wasn’t going to finish the job and that’s that. Enormous amounts of money spent with an electrician who actually seemed really lovely, but then disappeared. New electrician says all his work needs to be re done, and a £14k bit of groundwork done to lay cable never needed doing in the first place. Then a builder who seemed great but all his work has had to be re done. Another builder who took seven weeks to tile a bathroom.
I think she’s just been terribly terribly unlucky, but it’s definitely got to her. She’s friendly, cooks lunch for the workmen, bought a nespresso machine specifically for workmen to use so they can have as much as they’d like, is always around to answer questions.
So sorry to derail your thread OP. It’s interesting to hear about this from others because it would be nice to hear that my mother’s experience isn’t the norm.

 

[palo1]

I totally understand this, however, the level of unfriendliness my mother has received has been so much more. I was there when a workman (who she is since having to take to court) screamed in her face, called me the c word, smashed a gate, and said he wasn’t going to finish the job and that’s that. Enormous amounts of money spent with an electrician who actually seemed really lovely, but then disappeared. New electrician says all his work needs to be re done, and a £14k bit of groundwork done to lay cable never needed doing in the first place. Then a builder who seemed great but all his work has had to be re done. Another builder who took seven weeks to tile a bathroom.
I think she’s just been terribly terribly unlucky, but it’s definitely got to her. She’s friendly, cooks lunch for the workmen, bought a nespresso machine specifically for workmen to use so they can have as much as they’d like, is always around to answer questions.
So sorry to derail your thread OP. It’s interesting to hear about this from others because it would be nice to hear that my mother’s experience isn’t the norm.

That is an awful experience; your poor Mum!! For all of the trades to be so dire is very depressing and upsetting. No wonder you never want to set foot in the county again. Hopefully that will never happen again and your mum will find exactly what she needs and wants.

 

[Bobthecob15]

In contrast Herefordshire doesn't have many issues with tourism! Don't get me wrong we do get them, but nothing like the masses of Devon, Cornwall and the Cotswolds...its much quieter here!

 

[MJGoals]

Well this has certainly been an eye-opening read! Thank you so much everyone who commented.

Luckily I have a while to think on it before making the move, so will do some more research into locations.

Will likely go on and get the horse in the meantime as I’ve found a couple of stables bit further out from me that would suit. That would help with lessening the feeling I need to rush the move to get a horse (which likely wouldn’t end well!)