Moving up from a snaffle - conflicting advice?

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billylula

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My daughter rides her pony in a french link snaffle. I like snaffles :) I hate over bitting. She was autumn hunting today and felt he was a bit strong, she said she really had to pull him up a couple of times and was worried that she was too harsh on him (she rides with very light hands generally). A very experienced friend suggested a straight bar pelham would be a good move up from a snaffle (just for hunting) if it meant my daughter felt more in control. She discounted a gag as he tends to put his head down (not to be strong really, he just tends to do this when he gallops or gets excited) and she thought a gag might encourage him to drop his head more and maybe buck.

Riding shop lady said a PELHAM would encourage him to drop his head more and a much kinder alternative would be a baucher bit or hanging cheek snaffle which she said was a small step up from a french link.

Any advice? I do want daughter to feel she can stop him easily (never usually a problem but he does get more forward and hot out hunting he loves it!) but I am so wary of going down the overbitting route.

Thanks.
 
I would go with the hanging cheek. A Pelham is a huge step up and a friends horse went from snaffle to Pelham for jumping and she has struggled to school in a snaffle. It's taken a few months to ditch the Pelham.
 
Are we talking hanging cheek French link or jointed, the first one will be the same as you have but with poll pressure too, the second one will use the nutcracker action on the tongue and roof pallatt and the Pelham a horse could take hold of in its mouth and just set against it.

I have put my cob in a French link snaffle with a kineton noseband, but I am an adult.
 
Yes it is a chunky french link I bought the simplest kindest one I could - on hacks he is so easy (I hacked him out in a headcollar once when the bridle snapped and he was perfect in it). Think she was a bit worried about sawing on his mouth today.
 
Hanging cheeks don't have poll pressure so not sure how it would be a step up. A kimblewick or a Wilkie would be a half step before a pellham or gag if your daughter didn't want to use two reins. Or you could go down the noseband route and try a grackle, kinerton or woucster.
 
I was going to suggest a wilkie, seems quite a popular bit round here with ponies who are angelic in every way but who get a bit to onwards bound at meets! It's no fun constantly hauling- you feel bad and tired and worried you'll hurt your pony, and your pony will just stop listening. Been there!
 
dafthoss said:
Hanging cheeks don't have poll pressure so not sure how it would be a step up. A kimblewick or a Wilkie would be a half step before a pellham or gag if your daughter didn't want to use two reins. Or you could go down the noseband route and try a grackle, kinerton or woucster.
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A wilkie would probably the best step up, it will have some poll pressure but not too strong, ideal for a childs pony that just gets a bit enthusiastic out hunting.
 
billylula said:
Riding shop lady said a PELHAM would encourage him to drop his head more and a much kinder alternative would be a baucher bit or hanging cheek snaffle which she said was a small step up from a french link.
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Baucher/hanging cheeks would be a good idea if the pony has a natural high head carriage??

IMO I wouldn't think a straight bar would be a good idea as it could give the pony something solid to grab hold of and "go".

Have you ever considered Neue Schule bits? Yes, they are expensive, but worth it. There is one call the the Universal, it's 5 bits in 1. Again, a step up from a snaffle there's options for single reins on the snaffle ring, the lower ring (which has very mild gag action/poll pressure), double reins, single reins with roundings and even a curb chain. They have a lozenge mouthpiece and as you say your daughter rides with light hads, I think it would be worth thinking about.
 
Agree that a Pelham would be a huge step up, especially if your daughter is quite young. If its any help, a gag should actually encourage the horse to raise its head. I have a very strong WB who i currently jump in a gag & she goes fantastically in it :)
 
Lolo said:
I was going to suggest a wilkie, seems quite a popular bit round here with ponies who are angelic in every way but who get a bit to onwards bound at meets! It's no fun constantly hauling- you feel bad and tired and worried you'll hurt your pony, and your pony will just stop listening. Been there!
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Exactly! That's exactly how she feels.
 
First step would be a grackle or a drop or flash, sometimes if they can't evade the bit by opening or crossing the jaw they are better behaved. Our pony who is snaffle mouthed would have a grackle and either a hanging cheek or a wilkie when hunting
 
oh dear does this mean a new bridle :p

do you think grackle or drop would be better? He's a chunky forester a bit cheeky but as good as gold, just a bit green.
 
Hanging cheeks do have poll pressure when you pull on the reins the bit comes back and causes the part attached to the cheek piece to pull down and rotate, which will bring the head down. Search dressage bits on the net very explanatory.
 
I also agree hanging cheek does have poll pressure but sometimes poll pressure can cause horses to become behind vertical, not what you want out hunting.

I'd use a flash first and see how he goes in that
 
Pelhams lowers the head and balding/cheltenham gag raise the head. IMO dutch gags have a very indistinct action unless used with 2 reins and a curb strap (as they were designed to be used).

If he crosses his jaw use a grackle, if not try a drop. Use a flash if you need a drop, but also need to use a standing martingale (doesn't sound like you do).

A hanging cheek does not give any poll pressure - impossible as there is no leverage point, but does stabilise the bit in the mouth, so most horses tend to be softer and more relaxed in it. It is no stronger than a normal snaffle though.

A wilkie would be a good halfway point. Mild leverage similar to a gag to lift slightly. A wilkie and a drop would be a good start as the drop does not need to be tight to be effective.
 
Snaffle bits are not actually all that "kind" when people start really pulling on them; the nutcracker action is very unpleasant and can cause severe bruising to the bars, tongue and corners of the lips. Nor is the curb action of a pelham necessarily "severe" if the rider understands the difference in the mechanics. A curb uses different areas of pressure (the chin groove and poll) and achieves different effects. Many horses go much happier in a curb than the snaffle, which is a bit of a blunt instrument, IMO. It's all about educating the rider; educating the horse.
 
id try a flash, or drop, or grackle- or any of the above in addition to a kineton. Also consider a fullcheek snaffle with fulmer keepers- raises the head and is sufficient extra control for my boy when im jumping him (also ride in a french link usually)
 
beware of advice - someone I know was recently "advised" to use an american gag on a 4 year old sedate mare - just for gentle hacking. i hope whoever gave that advice reads this very post.
 
putasocinit said:
Hanging cheeks do have poll pressure when you pull on the reins the bit comes back and causes the part attached to the cheek piece to pull down and rotate, which will bring the head down. Search dressage bits on the net very explanatory.
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Trot_On_Dressage said:
I also agree hanging cheek does have poll pressure but sometimes poll pressure can cause horses to become behind vertical, not what you want out hunting.

I'd use a flash first and see how he goes in that
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Hanging cheeks don't give any poll pressure. When I pull on the reins, the cheek pieces go slack. how can you have poll pressure when the cheek pieces and therefore the headpiece over the poll is slack?

OP, read this, it's very interesting. :)
http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/bridle.php

If it was my pony, I would try a Kimblewick to start with. If you could borrow a few other bits that would be good as you could see what works before you buy.
 
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