Moving Yards......WWD

[piebaldsparkle]

I wonder how the OP would have reacted had the Livery owner giver her 5days (or even 2 weeks) notice to leave the yard.

I'll put money that she would have whinged like mad that she hadn't been given a months notice.

 

[criso]

I do agree with Hevs that there is a certain laxity in the horseworld re contracts and practice, even with contracts have seen YOs tell liveries they have to be off by tomorrow, tying horses to the gate or liveries doing an overnight flit.
But this lack of professionalism does not mean there are not guidelines out there.

I was in a job with no contract and not a little cash in hand job but a professional IT job where a US company did not feel the need to familiarize themselves with UK law; a flat with no written agreement and a lodger I needed to remove that had conveniently 'forgotten' to sign contract whenever I asked. So I got legal advice about the concept of reasonable notice in lieu of a written agreement.
The advice for liveries, employment and tenancy all followed the same pattern, frequency of payments is a determining factor.

The link I posted to a solicitors firm clearly states guidelines used in establishing notice where no contract exists in the UK at least.

But just because you are informed and know your rights doesn't mean the yard will play by the rules.

 

[martlin]

Just out of interest to YOs, have you done small claims for liveries not honouring notice period contract or no contract?

I have contracts on my yard clearly stating notice periods, have to say, it isn't realistically enforceable, though and not worth pursuing in courts as even if you do get judgement in your favour, you still get the small matter of retrieving the actual money.
So, other than swearing under my breath and moaning to my friends, as well as warning other YOs in the area, I do nothing about it.
It is bad form in my opinion, but on the other hand (it is a generalisation) the sort of people that find it acceptable I tend to be glad to see the back of.

 

[kateo]

it isn't realistically enforceable, though and not worth pursuing in courts as even if you do get judgement in your favour, you still get the small matter of retrieving the actual money.

This.

Unfortunately, even with a written contract / court order in your favour, if someone doesn't want to pay then they won't. Even if you pay bailiffs to enforce the judgement, you still might not see much of it. The law is not always the magic answer that people think it is. The legal position might be one thing but that doesn't change what happens in reality. People can find all sorts of ways to avoid paying - an amicable agreement is often the quicker and easier option. For small amounts of money, it is rarely worth pursuing court action.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

This.

Unfortunately, even with a written contract / court order in your favour, if someone doesn't want to pay then they won't. Even if you pay bailiffs to enforce the judgement, you still might not see much of it. The law is not always the magic answer that people think it is. The legal position might be one thing but that doesn't change what happens in reality. People can find all sorts of ways to avoid paying - an amicable agreement is often the quicker and easier option. For small amounts of money, it is rarely worth pursuing court action.

Very true. A car insurance company told me that before they pursue someone for money, they do a background check first to see if it is worth the cost of trying to retrieve the money through the courts.

 

[Honey08]

Just out of interest, if the YO gives you notice are you legally required to pay up if you move before? For example YO gives a months notice and you leave after 2 weeks?

This one, I feel, should be paid a month. The YO has been fair with you and given you a fair notice period, so it should be paid. As a YO I would waive that only if someone else wanted to move on and you had gone.

Sorry to hijack but I am quite interested in peoples take on this thought, I as have been on a yard with no written contract but as has been stated presumable therefore a verbal one, though no notice period discussed, I gave 1 months notice and was told to get my stuff and leave asap. Would this in anyway affect the payment of notice? I feel I should add I have been there a number of years and am not a yard hopper! Many thanks

In this case you shouldn't pay. The YO hasn't treated you with any respect or manners, nor stuck to the notice period, so you would just leave.

But just because you are informed and know your rights doesn't mean the yard will play by the rules.

True, there are bad YOs and bad liveries. You have to hope each side will play by the rules and be nice. I believe in treat as you wish to be treated.

 

[Sportshorseindisguis]

Thanks to Honey & Kateo for your advice x

 

[mytwofriends]

Whoa, thread still going .... I was going to post yesterday but didn't, but I might as well add my experiences.

I would always give/pay adequate notice, but on my last yard it bit my friend and I in the backside.

Some people had left before, leaving zero notice, and we thought it odd and rather rude. But when we decided to move on ourselves, we did the "right" thing and gave a month's notice. Guess what - we were thrown off the yard the very next day. Evidently the previous people knew the YO's ways and what the outcome would be, and were smart enough to avoid our situation.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

No contracts btw, even though we'd suggested they'd be a good idea.

 

[criso]

Well when I last moved, I gave notice in the middle of the month (livery due on the 1st).
I had paid a months deposit and up to the end of the month.

So we chatted and agreed the 2 weeks in the following month plus any extras could come out of the deposit.

As it turned out I moved about 9 days before the end, just because of when it was best to move. That was my choice and I was resigned to the overlap where I paid for both yards.

I was really pleased though when I got a text for deposit due back to me and they had only charged me up to the day I had left as they had filled both boxes. Wasn't entitled to it but they had given it back to me anyway.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Well when I last moved, I gave notice in the middle of the month (livery due on the 1st).
I had paid a months deposit and up to the end of the month.

So we chatted and agreed the 2 weeks in the following month plus any extras could come out of the deposit.

As it turned out I moved about 9 days before the end, just because of when it was best to move. That was my choice and I was resigned to the overlap where I paid for both yards.

I was really pleased though when I got a text for deposit due back to me and they had only charged me up to the day I had left as they had filled both boxes. Wasn't entitled to it but they had given it back to me anyway.

This is how it should work. You have to pay the full notice even if you choose to go before but if YO rents out the stabe during the notice period themn morally they should Ideally refund you ie they shouldn't double charge for the same stable if they are nice and fair - tho they aren't legally obliged to.

 

[criso]

True but I sometimes you get treated differently depending on how you approach. Other people did not get the same treatment because they went with the attitude that they were trying to get out of paying the full notice i.e. you'll fill the box anyway so why should I pay.

I didn't even expect to have the last weeks taken out of my deposit but I suggested it as a convenient way to avoid money going back and forth too much and I knew they had enough to cover the remaining weeks, any possible extras and still owe me some.

 

[Tonks]

*******s Honey. Go back and read my last few posts where i clearly accept i should have given her more than 5 'days. My point is that no other company would not clearly pointout their conditons why are livery yards any different??

If you were one of my livery clients, I think I'd PAY YOU one month's livery fee, so that you'd exit quietly and without any continued fuss !!!

Some of your comments simply don't come across well at all and perhaps your livery owner feels the same.

 

[Tonks]

Just out of interest to YOs, have you done small claims for liveries not honouring notice period contract or no contract?

No, simply not worth the effort, in my experience.

I have a contract where points are clearly discussed, though, so rarely happens. And when it has arisen in the past, it is mostly with liveries that have been less than desirable in the first place and to be honest, I'm quite happy they're off. I am however, always polite and professional and would never cause a scene about it. As a livery owner you have to expect it sometimes and not let it get to you.

 

[L&M]

This post has just reminded me why I am so glad I am no longer running a livery yard.....!!!

Just not worth the hassle.

 

[Shutterbug]

If you were one of my livery clients, I think I'd PAY YOU one month's livery fee, so that you'd exit quietly and without any continued fuss !!!

Some of your comments simply don't come across well at all and perhaps your livery owner feels the same.

I love how people feel they can judge someones entire character from a few comments on the internet lol. I'm rather glad you are not my YO as that would be a rather extreme reaction to some comments you don't feel come across very well. What do you do to liveries who cause serious problems? Shoot them??

I had a lovely chat with YO earlier this evening, we discussed what was said and we both extended apologies and we have put it behind us and we have parted on good terms. After reading the comments from others here, I did actually offer to pay her the other 2 weeks livery if she had not filled the stable in the next few weeks. But as she had someone come to see the stables last night who seems very keen to take them, she doesn't think that will be necessary however will bear it in mind that I have offered to do this.

Anyway, horses are all moved and settled in their new home.

 

[AmyMay]

I had a lovely chat with YO earlier this evening, we discussed what was said and we both extended apologies and we have put it behind us and we have parted on good terms. After reading the comments from others here, I did actually offer to pay her the other 2 weeks livery if she had not filled the stable in the next few weeks. But as she had someone come to see the stables last night who seems very keen to take them, she doesn't think that will be necessary however will bear it in mind that I have offered to do this.

Anyway, horses are all moved and settled in their new home.

Great update. Thanks Hevs.

 

[Tonks]

I had a lovely chat with YO earlier this evening, we discussed what was said and we both extended apologies and we have put it behind us and we have parted on good terms. After reading the comments from others here, I did actually offer to pay her the other 2 weeks livery if she had not filled the stable in the next few weeks. But as she had someone come to see the stables last night who seems very keen to take them, she doesn't think that will be necessary however will bear it in mind that I have offered to do this. Anyway, horses are all moved and settled in their new home.

I am glad that this is the outcome. Fricton and anamosity is never nice to deal with and gets quite upsetting for everyone. Most of us YO don't won't stress or disagreement as its upsetting, and it's always great when it can be resolved or avoided in the first place. I hope that it works out for both you and yard owner.