Moving Yards......WWD

Honey08 said:
Because, as a yard owner, having to think of every single thing that a livery is incapable of working out for themselves, or what they may trip over and sue for, or whatever else they may take exception to takes time and effort. DIY makes no money for most yards, to factor all these extra things is way different from the days when people just got on with things and were nice to each other. Time is money... If I had to go to a solicitor to try and work out a contract that was watertight etc it would go on the bills. Actually in my case, it was the reason I stopped doing DIY fullstop.
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My previous YO managed it without adding to the bills - and surely you only need to speak to a solicitor once to get a contract drawn up. Even at that a basic contract just stating terms of payment, and a notice period isnt that difficult and would at least cover the basics - surely better than nothing and would protect YO's from these very incidences

And apologies for my language that was uncalled for - but you guys don't know me, and to accuse me of being self centered if so far off the mark with me its not even on the same planet.
 
RunToEarth said:
You do not need to be a lawyer to understand law, you do not need to be involved in a legal profession of any kind to have an understanding on law. As Honey says your attitude stinks and if you cannot grasp the concept of what is very simple law, you are likely to find yourself in a lot of trouble one day.

You have just stuck your head in the sand here and seem to think that because you don't understand the legal implications of your contract you can just bow out.

Do the decent thing and pay your YO a month notice.
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I'm sorry but i completely disagree with this. If you took a contract with any company and they didn't tell you what the terms were and you tried to cancel it and couldn't or were advised you had to give a notice period, and had not been given documents to that effect or verbally advised - you would be given the power to cancel that agreement due to the terms not being made clear. And again I did not have a contract, written or verbal - I was not aware that there appears to be some kind of implied contract that applied to yards, and its yet to be confirmed that this is the case when it comes to notice periods. It appears its expected as the "done thing" and Im afraid thats not how things work legally - so no I don't agree that I should have known about it. I work with contracts every day at work, liaise with Trading Standards and a legal team in the course of my job - and never have I seen someone held to a contract that was not verbally agreed or agreed in writing
 
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Common curtesy !! I think YO is better off without u ..and tbh If I was here her I would have given u notice a long time ago ..as u are one very rude lady !!
 
Lambkins said:
Common curtesy !! I think YO is better off without u ..and tbh If I was here her I would have given u notice a long time ago ..as u are one very rude lady !!
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haha - considering you don't know me or her at all that's a helluva leap.

She would never have given me notice as she was quite happy with me being her livery and I never gave her any cause for trouble. She had no reason to give me notice. This is probably the reason why she and I have managed to sort things out so amicably - she has no desire to fall out with me and i have no desire to fall out with her. As I said we have exchanged texts this morning and Im going to see her later today for a cuppa and chat before I leave and to give her her final payment :)
 
Hevs said:
I'm sorry but i completely disagree with this. If you took a contract with any company and they didn't tell you what the terms were and you tried to cancel it and couldn't or were advised you had to give a notice period, and had not been given documents to that effect or verbally advised - you would be given the power to cancel that agreement due to the terms not being made clear. And again I did not have a contract, written or verbal - I was not aware that there appears to be some kind of implied contract that applied to yards, and its yet to be confirmed that this is the case when it comes to notice periods. It appears its expected as the "done thing" and Im afraid thats not how things work legally - so no I don't agree that I should have known about it. I work with contracts every day at work, liaise with Trading Standards and a legal team in the course of my job - and never have I seen someone held to a contract that was not verbally agreed or agreed in writing
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Honestly, this has been repeated over and over in this thread and you still don't get it?

You have an implied contract, you pay money for a service. There is no written notice period in your contract, therefore your notice period is your rent period, which in this case is monthly, very simple in legal terms and not just "the done thing". Implied contracts do not just apply to yards, they apply in all aspects of life, you could argue they are a basis for even the most simple things like ordering food at a restaurant. You might not agree that you should have known about it, but look where not knowing about it has landed you?

If you work with contracts everyday then all I can say is good luck to your employers based on this thread. Just because you don't see anyone held to implied contracts does not mean it doesn't happen, I am a land agent and I see them a lot.
 
This is quite a frustrating thread.

It has been explained numerous times that ignorance is no defence in law but the OP refuses to accept this. Pay monthly, give a months notice. The contract existed the day the horses moved onto the yard and payment for livery was agreed.

Quite often YO's don't enforce this, but many do. I generally ask when I give notice but fully expect to pay the full term, even when the stables are being filled as I'm loading the lorry. Its customary and polite as well as correct.

Anyway, glad peace has been restored with the YO and hope the move goes well. Moving is stressful enough without added complications.
 
RunToEarth said:
Honestly, this has been repeated over and over in this thread and you still don't get it?
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On that we certainly agree - I'm exhausted and I havent even gotten out of my pjs yet.

Just in closing as I do really have to go start - I really do appreciate everyone's input on this thread even those who have been providing underhand insults and rolling their eyes at me. I think its forums are a great way to discuss things and find out other opinions and I promise I was only mildly offended the once :D But thanks to everyone for responding and looking up links and so on - its been very informative and interesting discussion. And I have certainly come away from it learning a thing or two.:)
 
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I don't understand all the heat over this Hevs did not realise she had to pay notice she has come to an aggrement with the YO probelm solved .
Yards should have contracts simple as that the YO owner needs to be more organised to prevent misunderstanding in the future .
I agree with those who have pointed its clearly not reasonable to give very short notice and allow the YOer no time to find a new livery but really the YO should be making it clear to people when they arrive .
 
Goldenstar said:
I don't understand all the heat over this Hevs did not realise she had to pay notice she has come to an aggrement with the YO probelm solved .
Yards should have contracts simple as that the YO owner needs to be more organised to prevent misunderstanding in the future .
I agree with those who have pointed its clearly not reasonable to give very short notice and allow the YOer no time to find a new livery but really the YO should be making it clear to people when they arrive .
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I think the issue is that Hevs not knowing is not a defence.

If you take your car to France, did you know that you now need to have 2 breathalysers in the car ? If you're stopped by the police, ignorance won't stop you being fined.

The onus is on the person to be aware, not the other way around.
 
Goldenstar said:
I don't understand all the heat over this Hevs did not realise she had to pay notice she has come to an aggrement with the YO probelm solved
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I do not believe for one minute that Hevs didn't know that some notice period would be required. Sorry, but to suggest otherwise is just rubbish.
 
Does it seem to anyone else the YO may just be being amicable as she is still due the 2 week payment, doesn't have much choice does she really.
 
amymay said:
I do not believe for one minute that Hevs didn't know that some notice period would be required. Sorry, but to suggest otherwise is just rubbish.
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Please do not imply that I am a liar amymay. As I have stated in this thread repeatedly - two previous yards did not ask me for notice - it was never mentioned and not asked for and not given(one got 4 days the other a week - I'm welcome back on both yards anytime)- 2 have and the both had contracts and notice was provided as per that contract (also welcome back on those yards anytime) So from personal experience its fair to say that I assumed that this yard, not having given me a contract and not have advised me of any notice period would not expect one as that is my only experience with yards that do not give contracts or discuss notice periods. Obviously I assumed incorrectly but I genuinely thought it would be the same as my previous non contract yards

I now know to ask my yards for livery notice expectations to prevent this from ever happening again but I am not a liar.
 
GeorgeyGal said:
Does it seem to anyone else the YO may just be being amicable as she is still due the 2 week payment, doesn't have much choice does she really.
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You mentioned that before. She and I have come to an arrangement - I will pay her 2 weeks notice and she has accepted it. If she doesn't want to accept it she is free to pursue her alternatives through the proper channels if she feels she must - I'm not forcing her to accept it
 
I have to say I'm so glad I read this thread as I was also under the impression if notice was not discussed then it is not legally binding. Obviously I would ask how much notice I needed to give if a contract wasnt stated as i see it as good manners but still, could easily have ended up in a similar situation!

Just out of interest, if the YO gives you notice are you legally required to pay up if you move before? For example YO gives a months notice and you leave after 2 weeks?
 
GeorgeyGal said:
Swiftly exits thread - point missed entirely.
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Well be a little more specific - you are saying she doesn't have a choice in accepting 2 weeks notice I am saying she does. Because if she wasn't happy with 2 weeks she would tell me trust me on that - shes no pussy cat believe me.
 
Love said:
I have to say I'm so glad I read this thread as I was also under the impression if notice was not discussed then it is not legally binding. Obviously I would ask how much notice I needed to give if a contract wasnt stated as i see it as good manners but still, could easily have ended up in a similar situation!

Just out of interest, if the YO gives you notice are you legally required to pay up if you move before? For example YO gives a months notice and you leave after 2 weeks?
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Despite the odd idiot and keyboard warrior, I am glad I posted about it because I feel it has been very informative and educational not just for me but for others as well.
 
Just out of interest, if the YO gives you notice are you legally required to pay up if you move before? For example YO gives a months notice and you leave after 2 weeks?[/QUOTE]

Sorry to hijack but I am quite interested in peoples take on this thought, I as have been on a yard with no written contract but as has been stated presumable therefore a verbal one, though no notice period discussed, I gave 1 months notice and was told to get my stuff and leave asap. Would this in anyway affect the payment of notice? I feel I should add I have been there a number of years and am not a yard hopper! :o Many thanks
 
Again, of course she would appear amicable at the moment because she hasn't been paid yet but once she has the money are you sure you'll still be on such good terms? Surely she isn't going to turn down 2 weeks money (as its comes across that you are doing her a favour even paying this) as in she doesn't really have a choice as in of course it's not worth her while persuing (sp) legal routes so this is the best she's going to get like it or not.
 
Love said:
Just out of interest, if the YO gives you notice are you legally required to pay up if you move before? For example YO gives a months notice and you leave after 2 weeks?
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That's a bit different and in reality less likely to be an issue as the YO would be glad to see the back of you I think! If you pay in advance, a sensible YO would give notice when they have just received the payment for the month ahead so it won't be an issue.

Otherwise, I think it would be harder to make someone stay on your yard (and/or pay) if you have given them notice to leave. I think generally the YO would expect payment for the time that you are still on the yard. They have given you notice to leave, you can leave whenever you choose within that period.
 
Sorry to hijack but I am quite interested in peoples take on this thought, I as have been on a yard with no written contract but as has been stated presumable therefore a verbal one, though no notice period discussed, I gave 1 months notice and was told to get my stuff and leave asap. Would this in anyway affect the payment of notice? I feel I should add I have been there a number of years and am not a yard hopper! :o Many thanks


Yes - if you have been prepared to offer full notice and YO kicks you off that day (or before the ned of the period) then you do not need to pay for the remainder of the period as YO will have waived it (and most likely be in breach for making you leave sooner).

ETS: sorry - quote went a bit wrong, don't know how to fix it!
 
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GeorgeyGal said:
Again, of course she would appear amicable at the moment because she hasn't been paid yet but once she has the money are you sure you'll still be on such good terms? Surely she isn't going to turn down 2 weeks money (as its comes across that you are doing her a favour even paying this) as in she doesn't really have a choice as in of course it's not worth her while persuing (sp) legal routes so this is the best she's going to get like it or not.
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Going to the small claims court is not expensive and you do it yourself the yard owner could easily do this if she choose to.
If the YO had a written contract in place one of this would have happened she is not blameless in all this.
 
Just out of interest to YOs, have you done small claims for liveries not honouring notice period contract or no contract?
 
GeorgeyGal said:
Again, of course she would appear amicable at the moment because she hasn't been paid yet but once she has the money are you sure you'll still be on such good terms? Surely she isn't going to turn down 2 weeks money (as its comes across that you are doing her a favour even paying this) as in she doesn't really have a choice as in of course it's not worth her while persuing (sp) legal routes so this is the best she's going to get like it or not.
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Im not "doing her a favor" I'm reaching a compromise with her. I'm also going to be doing some free work for her over the coming weeks which is worth more than the rest of the livery. If after that she decides she hates my guts and doesnt want to know me then that will be a decision she makes that I have no control over
 
Sportshorseindisguis said:
Just out of interest, if the YO gives you notice are you legally required to pay up if you move before? For example YO gives a months notice and you leave after 2 weeks?
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Sorry to hijack but I am quite interested in peoples take on this thought, I as have been on a yard with no written contract but as has been stated presumable therefore a verbal one, though no notice period discussed, I gave 1 months notice and was told to get my stuff and leave asap. Would this in anyway affect the payment of notice? I feel I should add I have been there a number of years and am not a yard hopper! :o Many thanks[/QUOTE]

In the first case, I think it would be acceptable to pay for just the 2 weeks as the YO had given a months notice for the owner to move.

In the second case, the client gave a months notice, presumably with intention to pay the full amount due, but the YO's insistence that the client leave asp, meant that she forfeits the right to claim the money that would have been due for the full notice period. Pay up to the date you leave.
 
kateo said:
I gave 1 months notice and was told to get my stuff and leave asap. Would this in anyway affect the payment of notice? I feel I should add I have been there a number of years and am not a yard hopper! :o Many thanks!
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Yes it would. Effectively your notice has not been accepted, and you been asked to leave earlier. You therefore pay up until the day you move only.
 
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