Mrs Spaniel - too fat or just right?

Karran

Karran

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Firstly please be gentle with me!
I'm used to dustbin dogs (labs!) on constant diets.

Mrs Spaniel has been yo-yo in weight since I got her.
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At her lowest point she was 8kg, ribs, spine and hips visible. I used to dread taking her to public places due to the comments. The vet refused to spay her initially as she was dangerously underweight - despite three large meals a day and a bedtime snack!
She is your typical super-energetic spaniel, she is into everything, always playing with toys, always using her nose. We walk two hours a day, she comes up to the yard and mooches about playing with other dogs, and at weekends we go out to country parks and do 4 or 5 miles in one go and then another hour in the evening, even at her lowest point, I couldn't walk her any less, although we tried trick training to tire her mentally.
She had arrived on Eukanuba, I swapped to Wainwrights, then Arden Grange, then we tried raw, starting with Nature's Menu, wasn't happy with that as she pooped out veg, so then we tried a slab of Natural Instinct Working Dog which we supplemented with a handful of heart chunks and poultry necks, we managed to get to 10kg and she was spayed successfully.

We managed to get her up to 12kg by the time we started Flyball, although still an extreme waist and visible ribs she at least didn't have a visible spine nor the jutting hips, however one problem was that it wasn't enough to give her energy to deal with a days racing, she was just too tired in the afternoons.

So we went to Rawtogo, we have cut down to two meals a day and a bedtime snack (piece of jerky or dentystick). It is supposed to be the official 80.10.10 ratio, and most importantly for me(!) It was in 454g bags, so I didn't need to spend ages dividing it all up. I just give half in the morning and half in the evening. I had noticed that she had lost that visible waist but as she now she has the energy to do a full day racing, I didn't really think about it too much. I showed a picture to her to my ex who hasn't seen her since August and he was horrified at how "porky" she is and its been playing on my mind...
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so I weighed her and she's currently 14kg, weekend photo.... which shocked me a bit. Surely that's too much for a little spaniel?

We still do the same amount of exercise but maybe I should up it/reduce the amount I give her?
Someone reassure me that she's not hugely obese!

(Please ignore the ears - we had an accident with a prickle bush. It didn't end well. At least it'll grow back.... right?)-
 
Yes she is looking a bit rectangular tome, but hard to know without hands on!should be able to feel ribs and spine nicely
 
For a pet she looks fine. If she was a working dog, she would probaly be a bit leaner. My staffy weighs more ahah
 
Rectangular?!?! She's an athlete!

In all seriousness perhaps I could try and trim a kilo off of her. I think sometimes you do just need someone who doesn't see her that often to point it out... just so bloody worried we drop back to previous scrawny levels.

Right. Kick up bum taken and a little less food starts tomorrow.
 
Just for comparison Dylan is 21 TTS and 17kgs, not as fit as he used to be when I took him fell walking and racing etc but hes slightly fitter than your average pet dog still and obviously leaner as hes a whippet. So I wouldnt go by the scales. I think yours could lose a tiny bit, she does look slightly rounded, but its very difficult to judge with that photo.

454gms does seem a lot for her size as well. Dylan gets somewhere between that and up to a 1kg if hes worked hard, although those days are much fewer now. But, thats me feeding him somewhere between slightly more than right and up to more than double. Hes incredibly hard to keep weight on and always has been. Another dog of his size would be the size of a house on what he eats!

I'd knock her back to 350gms on normal days, and days where she does more then up it to 500gms. That should keep the weight on but still reduce the overall amount shes getting and trim her slightly

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Muscle weighs more than fat, it's not what she weighs, more how she looks.

She should have a defined visible waist, he ribs should feel that they're covered by a fleece blanket. A sheet is too this, a duvet too fat. She will probably have big leg and shoulder muscles as she exercises a lot.
 
Moderrn proprietory feeds are designed to be palatable but not highly nutritious. That way, customers buy more! Trust me, I knew a man who was an animal behaviourist whose job it was to design feed to be that way!

Simply add a lump of cooking fat or fat trimmings from the butchers (if such still exist) to the dog's meal.

Working cockers are highly active little dogs and do burn a lot of energy. Having said that, the ribs should be reasonably well covered with the last two ribs fairly prominent. 90% of pet dogs in the UK are clinically obese and it does an animal no harm to be bit lean but the opposite is a killer.
 
Daisy has lost a little weight due to a sickness bug last week and is a much preferable weight now imo. I'm always worrying about her weight because of the breed tendency to get fat (she's a bichon). However, she walks a minimum of 6 miles a day (sometimes more) and is out and about for around 4 hours. So ireally shouldn't be so paranoid.

I think your lovely dog looks great (I like some meat on their bones), and if she's getting a good amount of exercise I wouldn't worry, personally.

Edt. Just seen DryRots post. Sorry, but I wouldn't add cooking fat or fatty bits generally to the diet as they can cause colitis.
 
I will try and get a better side on shot to compare. I am not sure if i'm a little paranoid either! She has huge muscles as I think you can see from the first picture! I think it was only that, that stopped me getting call outs from the RSPCA!
I will cut her food down (started this morning) to 350g a day and we will see how we get on from there. Quite conscious that the 12kg wasn't enough for her when it came to racing.
I think I spent so long with previous dogs constantly fretting that they were getting too fat and then with her fretting that she wasn't getting fat, that its just skewed my brain a little and now i'm just an over anxious dog-parent!
 
Good link from Puccipony, I think she looks OK but we need a side on picture.
I always go on look rather than weight!
 
Karran said:
I will try and get a better side on shot to compare. I am not sure if i'm a little paranoid either! She has huge muscles as I think you can see from the first picture! I think it was only that, that stopped me getting call outs from the RSPCA!
I will cut her food down (started this morning) to 350g a day and we will see how we get on from there. Quite conscious that the 12kg wasn't enough for her when it came to racing.
I think I spent so long with previous dogs constantly fretting that they were getting too fat and then with her fretting that she wasn't getting fat, that its just skewed my brain a little and now i'm just an over anxious dog-parent!
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I woudnt worry too much. Mine can drop or gain weight literally overnight. He still catches me out sometimes. I feed him by eye and by whats hes done, then try not to worry about minor fluctuations as they even out in the end.

The one thing I cant do with him is feed him premixed raw that has veg in it. The weight literally drops off him. So it might be worth substituting some of that in for a little while?
 
Spaniels and other gundogs tend to carry to much weight when they're pets in the UK anyway, so it's refreshing when you see one at the proper weight. I know how hard it is to get weight on a lean dog but it is far less of a health concern than if they are over weight.

My young munsterlander is going through a 'refusing food' fad and lost 1.5kg in 10 days, but somehow you cant really tell when you look at her, she is incredibly fit with muscles to match so obviously her body can tolerate a fluctuation in weight. My only problem is that for the show ring she needs the slight extra covering, so we have to walk a fine line between the show dog weight and the athletic dog weight which I prefer.

To bulk up before Crufts I tend to buy the packs of raw meat diet and feed one a day in addition to normal meals, although I'm in a minority in that i actually microwave the meat before serving to partially cook and warm it.
 
Firstly well done for getting the weight on her - she was indeed very thin and I know how tough it can be to get dogs who tend that way up to a better weight. Knowing this part of her history, I would be wary of cutting too much. Perhaps just a small handful less per day to begin with. Her energy levels are good now so I would be cautious initially.

If you're unsure if she's too fat to begin with, have a good feel - the tip above about feeling her ribs "through a fleece blanket" is great and she should have a defined waist.
 
Paint Me Proud said:
Spaniels and other gundogs tend to carry to much weight when they're pets in the UK anyway, so it's refreshing when you see one at the proper weight. I know how hard it is to get weight on a lean dog but it is far less of a health concern than if they are over weight.

My young munsterlander is going through a 'refusing food' fad and lost 1.5kg in 10 days, but somehow you cant really tell when you look at her, she is incredibly fit with muscles to match so obviously her body can tolerate a fluctuation in weight. My only problem is that for the show ring she needs the slight extra covering, so we have to walk a fine line between the show dog weight and the athletic dog weight which I prefer.

To bulk up before Crufts I tend to buy the packs of raw meat diet and feed one a day in addition to normal meals, although I'm in a minority in that i actually microwave the meat before serving to partially cook and warm it.
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Would love some pics. I swear my tall things are part munsterlander!
 
Right! Little Miss Wrigglebutt held still almost long enough to get some side photos this evening...
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And then top on to compare with first awful pic. See from here I think fat, but from the side I don't think she's too bad? I tried the ribs under fleece feeling and I think we're just there with that, any more and we'd be into "duvet" territory (I love this analogy btw!)
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She's lovely and I think pretty spot on.
I have re read the condition score linked by Pucciponi and I think she comes in the ideal category. Having seen the first picture I wouldn't want to let her lose any weight as you say you have done well to get weight on her.
 
I can't really tell from the photo what her weight is like, a photo taken from the same angle as the first and one side on with her standing up would be much better.
For the poster who thinks pet dogs and working dogs should be different, weights why is that?
Also sorry to say it but the black whippet looks a bit tubby to me but again the photo is not the best angle.
 
equi said:
For a pet she looks fine. If she was a working dog, she would probaly be a bit leaner. My staffy weighs more ahah
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Our working dogs are no leaner but a lot more muscular than your average pet. Perhaps that is what you mean? Mrs Spaniel exercises a lot and looks really fit to me. I think she looks great. I don't worry too much about small weight fluctuations.
 
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She looks spot on but wouldn't want to see her much bigger.
You can add eggs, coconut oil, fish oil etc to add condition and energy levels without increasing her intake too much. I also use a very stinky compressed salmon sausage thing from Holland, can't remember the manufacturer, or the Naturo trays when competing or travelling.
 
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