Muck Heap - Complaint, help !

I would get it taken away more often as well. Even though it sounds like you are doing nothing wrong, some people will make it their life's purpose to get it moved and cause a nuisance to you. I bet they 'll be really disappointed if you take the issue away completely...what would they do with lives then?
 
Tnavas said:
The ownership of the land doesn't change just because the use has. The land between the wall on the left and the wire fence on the right still belongs to the council.
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Not necessarily true. It is often the presumption that the surface of the road (public highway) belongs to the highways authority, while the subsoil to the centre line goes with the adjoining properties on either side, unless the highways authority has actually purchased the strip of land needed to create a new road or widen an existing one. That will be shown on their records, they maintain a map record of what they own.
As regards a public right of way such as a bridle path or green lane, the land belongs to the landowner but the public have rights over it, and it is unlawful for the landowner to obstruct it such that those rights cannot be exercised.
If you want to sort it by checking the status and ownership of the road/lane/path you need to check with the highways department first (county council but if you are 2 tier they often delegate to the district council). If they have no claim to it, then the definitive map defines public rights of way, but seldom in enough detail to show boundaries. Even the OS map (both current and historical) only work to tolerances which mean it is really difficult to pinpoint an actual boundary on the ground (I used to work for LAnd Registry and did some surveys at that time).
A historical map (in the council archives quite often or obtain from the OS) might show a double feature such as two hedges or fences with the path running between, and the wall as a separate feature, in which case you will know there is land outside of the lane or path which is available to be used as the land owner pleases.
These are all matters on which you can challenge the council officer so long as you have done your research and are aware of the evidence, but you might need to invest some time asking the council for answers to these questions. Your local councillor might help open doors for you, or even get someone to do the research for you.
If you want more advice or detail, PM me.
 
On a completely different tack...aren't you supposed to put muck heaps on concrete these days? Or is that only if you are within 24 yds from a watercourse?
 
JillA said:
Not necessarily true. It is often the presumption that the surface of the road (public highway) belongs to the highways authority, while the subsoil to the centre line goes with the adjoining properties on either side, unless the highways authority has actually purchased the strip of land needed to create a new road or widen an existing one. That will be shown on their records, they maintain a map record of what they own.
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I think you will find that in general the council/highway authority own the land between boundary fences, from side to side of the road, which is why you will see fence lines for the whole street finishing at the same distance from the road all along the road.

Has anyone ever been asked for permission to dig up the grass verge outside their property? Most likely you have been advised that workmen will be coming to dig up the verge - and your expensive driveway on a scheduled date.

It is though expected that the property owner maintains the grass verge. Eg, mow the grass. I remember my father having a strop when council dug up our drive and grass to lay new phone lines. Council promptly put him in his place!
 
Curiously it is not always the case that they own the verge each side, my parents own theres, it is shown on the boundary of the house. Something which my father has pointed out to them when they have left things on it and damaged the grass. Your friend needs to look at the boundaries, and see exactly what the situation is. If she owns the land the bridleway is on, people have a right of access, but no more.
I would also say you need to be very nice to the council people, as they are being paid for this, and need to justify their wages.
 
Tnavas said:
You stated in your first post that it used to be a road but is now used as a bridleway/footpath.

The ownership of the land doesn't change just because the use has. The land between the wall on the left and the wire fence on the right still belongs to the council.
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I'm not the OP ;)

and just because it used to have a surface doesn't mean that it was ever owned by the council rather than a private track/road with a right of way over it. Also from the OP and pics the landowner owns up to the wall as stated... which therefore would include all of the land from the right to the left of the photo ie including the track and the land either side of it.
 
Tnavas said:
I think you will find that in general the council/highway authority own the land between boundary fences, from side to side of the road, which is why you will see fence lines for the whole street finishing at the same distance from the road all along the road.

Has anyone ever been asked for permission to dig up the grass verge outside their property? Most likely you have been advised that workmen will be coming to dig up the verge - and your expensive driveway on a scheduled date.

It is though expected that the property owner maintains the grass verge. Eg, mow the grass. I remember my father having a strop when council dug up our drive and grass to lay new phone lines. Council promptly put him in his place!
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You are wrong, and probably need to preface your advice with the caveat that you aren't fully aware of the legal position. I have a background in Law of Property (including surveys as mentioned) and hold a diploma in Land Registration Law and Practice, having formally studied the subject. It is important that anyone considering any form of action concerning property based on forum advice knows how reliable that advice is, so if you are basing what you say just on something you may have heard or experienced you should be aware that it may not always be correct.
 
Tnavas said:
Generally the ownership of land finishes at the boundary fence/wall. The grass verge on either side of a road belong to the council. The property owner is responsible for maintaining the grass verge.

I would be pretty certain that the muck heap is on council land.
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not necessarily, there are documented instances of highways going over private land.
 
maybedaisy said:
However this year the new environmental health woman, brought the highways chap with her who said we have to move it as ' we can't say where the highway is '
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The environment woman has the same problem as you, it is not up to you to prove where the highway is, it is up to her. She cannot make you move something away from a highway or off a highway if she cannot say where the highway is. Really they need tpo prove your guilt, you should not have to prove your innocence.

If you can get hold of old maps of the area, possibly available at a local library, then that may be able to prove your case.....& sink theirs, & hopefully you will have some peace. Good Luck
 
Unfortunately the EH woman doesn't need to prove that to serve notice, and non compliance with the notice means a day in court (where you might be able to challenge). Before it gets to that stage get your councillor to mediate and let her know you are consider she may be overstepping her authority. He is, after all, one of her employers.
 
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JillA said:
Unfortunately the EH woman doesn't need to prove that to serve notice, and non compliance with the notice means a day in court (where you might be able to challenge). Before it gets to that stage get your councillor to mediate and let her know you are consider she may be overstepping her authority. He is, after all, one of her employers.
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One thing for sure is councillors do not pay salaries of council employees. He is there to represent the locals and therefore is likely to listen sympathetically, but ultimately will not be cognisant of the legalities, he will have to take advice on this from the council staff. The main thing is that you will "raise the level" of the issue. That is to say the Director of Env services and Roads and possible the CEO will "take a position". This may be good for you or it may not be good.
Personally, I would tidy things up, particularly stop any seepage. Hope that they don't take formal action.
If things appear to be getting towards court action, I think you will need to send a more formal letter setting out your case, answering the points they make, probably no more than those points.
You need to gather evidence, such as time this has been used for purpose, proximity to road, status of road, route of road,
but get it tidied up, esp no effluent run off.
 
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Ditchjumper2 said:
On a completely different tack...aren't you supposed to put muck heaps on concrete these days? Or is that only if you are within 24 yds from a watercourse?
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There is something about muck heaps that councils get picky about. When my yard was being done, the council were more concerned about the location and structure of the muck heap than the stables.
 
Ditchjumper2 said:
On a completely different tack...aren't you supposed to put muck heaps on concrete these days? Or is that only if you are within 24 yds from a watercourse?
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Just a note on this, field heaps (no concrete) are permitted but all manure/compost heaps must be stored more than 10m from a watercourse (ditches count, even if they are usually dry) and away from land drains. They should also not be stored in the same place for more than a year (I think, it's the nitrate pollution prevention regulations 2008 you need to look at) as effluent begins to create a preferential pathway through the soils and may cause pollution.
 
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