AmyMay
Situation normal
Once again - do not cover for bandage as this will prevent healing.
Mud Fever, back legs now swollen, what bedding is best when stabled?
- Thread starter englund
- Start date
AmyMay
Situation normal
'Or', sorry on phone.
Miss L Toe
Well-Known Member
englund
Well-Known Member
My fields are not overly muddy but did initially have fairly long grass in it.
The affected hind legs are both white his dark fronts are not affected.
He is in during the day from around 9am - 3pm mainly to avoid the flies and because his field companions are brought in for riding and weight control.
I have Hibiscrubbed with warm water but only once to get the scabs off, the scabbs are now off but area very pink and sore. I use antibiotic cream twice a day and his affected areas are smothered in it.
His back legs swell by the time he leaves stable, they have only started doing this since the infection. If I put boots on they go back normal if I dont they remain swollen for longer.
Boots are washed and dried every day in Hibiscrub then swilled off (this I now think may be extending the problem)
I will now just use the cream and not cover the legs with anything else and see what happens.
The affected hind legs are both white his dark fronts are not affected.
He is in during the day from around 9am - 3pm mainly to avoid the flies and because his field companions are brought in for riding and weight control.
I have Hibiscrubbed with warm water but only once to get the scabs off, the scabbs are now off but area very pink and sore. I use antibiotic cream twice a day and his affected areas are smothered in it.
His back legs swell by the time he leaves stable, they have only started doing this since the infection. If I put boots on they go back normal if I dont they remain swollen for longer.
Boots are washed and dried every day in Hibiscrub then swilled off (this I now think may be extending the problem)
I will now just use the cream and not cover the legs with anything else and see what happens.
Auslander
Well-Known Member
I'd be using paper bedding personally. Don't like shavings/sawdust combined with sticky legs!
LittleLilly
Member
We've just had the same problem with one of ours, started when out in very long grass, damp but no mud. He had some antibiotics, bute, soaked scabs in warm water and applied a cream (can't remember name off top of head) antibiotic/steroid cream, didn't box rest him at all, he stayed turned out (shorter grass) and has cleared up nicely. Hope yours gets better soon x
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
The swelling is a normal reaction to an infection. If we had an infection on our ankles, they would swell too.
That will go when he starts to get better. I would ditch the boots and keep him in to dry out the infection. Most bacteria and fungus can't survive in dry conditions. The antibiotics will help.
I would give him herbs to help circulation and healing. Restore from global herbs or L94 from Trinity are really good I found and it's what finally helped clear our mares legs. It reduced the swelling almost instantly!
Really hope it clears up soon. Keeping him in for a while will really help
You Wont Forget Me
Well-Known Member
Ummm, if you haven't used this before it would be good to patch test first: I used it on my boy who's got pink skin & white legs - and he came up very pink and inflamed.
Sorry, wasn't criticising anyone
From what ive heard, read and seen pig oil with sulphur is not the best thing for white legs as most of them do seem to react with it, try pig oil without sulphur its usually much better.
Also for clearing up the mud fever i would try leave legs as dry as possible dont wash them too often and if you do make sure they are totally dry before leaving him. Try box rest while taking him out for walks even twice a day or turnout in an arena or anywhere that is dry and mud free, i personally wouldnt turn back out until mf is totally cleared up and then use pig oil to try prevent it again.
Hope this helps and hope you get it cleared up soon
philamena
Well-Known Member
Don't feel bad OP, there are a million different 'correct' opinions on exactly what you should use and should and shouldn't do for mud fever.
Last time I had a horse with it (15 yrs ago) the received wisdom was to wash thoroughly in hibiscrub, loosen and scratch the scabs off as much as possible (often by vet under sedation), box rest til healed, then wash them like mad in quite strong disinfectant every time they get the slightest bit of mud on them... but thinking and knowledge has developed over the past few years and vets now understand it can be caused by different things needing different approaches, and that it's more about supporting the skin to heal itself than blitzing the hell out of any bacteria / fungus / topical reaction. On the whole, keeping them clean and dry is the key, while tackling it from the inside more than the outside and supporting healthy skin (not over-washing, not using strong chemicals or overusing any of the steroid creams which longer term thin the skin). An additional rationale of treating it from inside as much as poss initially, and keeping them in, is that if it's being exacerbated by sun or something in the pasture, there's less risk of doing the 'wrong' thing topically (ie sun sensitivity may benefit from slathering cream, moisture-based mud fever wouldn't... and also keeping pony's tootsies away from those possible irritants (sun or something in pasture).
So clean and dry, walk regularly to keep the blood moving, and treat from inside, while you ponder what caused it.
In relation to this advice:
...I'm not sure antibiotics work on the legs when administered by the ears..??! ;-) First line of defence is oral antibiotics and an anti-inflammatory (Danilon is kinder to tummies than bute), but if it's very severe in the back legs vet may suggest injecting antibiotics because the way the horse's system works it can sometimes need a stronger blast to get the good stuff through to the rear extremities quickly than they get through normal oral dosing of ABs...
Good luck, it's stressful I know to know what to do for the best, especially in the face of lots of opinions!
Last time I had a horse with it (15 yrs ago) the received wisdom was to wash thoroughly in hibiscrub, loosen and scratch the scabs off as much as possible (often by vet under sedation), box rest til healed, then wash them like mad in quite strong disinfectant every time they get the slightest bit of mud on them... but thinking and knowledge has developed over the past few years and vets now understand it can be caused by different things needing different approaches, and that it's more about supporting the skin to heal itself than blitzing the hell out of any bacteria / fungus / topical reaction. On the whole, keeping them clean and dry is the key, while tackling it from the inside more than the outside and supporting healthy skin (not over-washing, not using strong chemicals or overusing any of the steroid creams which longer term thin the skin). An additional rationale of treating it from inside as much as poss initially, and keeping them in, is that if it's being exacerbated by sun or something in the pasture, there's less risk of doing the 'wrong' thing topically (ie sun sensitivity may benefit from slathering cream, moisture-based mud fever wouldn't... and also keeping pony's tootsies away from those possible irritants (sun or something in pasture).
So clean and dry, walk regularly to keep the blood moving, and treat from inside, while you ponder what caused it.
In relation to this advice:
...I'm not sure antibiotics work on the legs when administered by the ears..??! ;-) First line of defence is oral antibiotics and an anti-inflammatory (Danilon is kinder to tummies than bute), but if it's very severe in the back legs vet may suggest injecting antibiotics because the way the horse's system works it can sometimes need a stronger blast to get the good stuff through to the rear extremities quickly than they get through normal oral dosing of ABs...
Good luck, it's stressful I know to know what to do for the best, especially in the face of lots of opinions!
Luci07
Well-Known Member
Mine had cellulitis and my vet is seeing a lot of this at the moment. Person whose vet said to put sudocream on their horse, do be careful when buying this as this is a human medicine. If you say you are buying for animals they can not sell it to you. Mine had to have box rest which didn't go down well with a pretty ft 5 year old but he survived!
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
I'd keep a close eye on the swelling, cellulitis can develop from mud fever.
Interesting the different advice, even from vets. My vet told me some years ago that picking scabs off was "old thinking" and not to do it. What's the base for the antiseptic cream you're using? If it's lanolin you could consider that your horse might be allergic to it and that could be aggravating the problem.
Some years ago, in consultation with the vet, I treated an Arab with 4 white legs living out in a field that had pretty nasty mud fever. Every day brought him off the field, wiped his legs as free of mud as I could (so not completely clean) and as dry as possible with a clean towel, slathered Barrier Hygiene Heel to Hoof http://www.barrier-biotech.com/product.php?pid=HH and turned him back out in the mud. In about 2 weeks the results were really good, the swelling went down quite quickly and stayed down because he was moving about. The scabs started to come off naturally after about 2 weeks I think, leaving healthy pink skin underneath. The mud fever cleared up completely even though he was still living out in a very wet winter, and I was able to gradually reduce the H to H to about every 3 or 4 days as a protective barrier. The ointment also lifted off the mud and prevented it sticking again, so after a couple of days I was wiping it off with the towel and finding his legs pretty clean underneath.
I think even if this were to be an allergic reaction to something in your grazing rather than mud fever, this might be a useful course of action to try. It has worked on every horse I've used it on since, apart from one that had already developed Cellulitis. Sometimes friends will try it at my suggestion, other times they won't. It's almost too easy for some I think, having the horse washed, dried, jumping about as scabs get pulled off makes them feel they are actually doing something maybe?)
Interesting the different advice, even from vets. My vet told me some years ago that picking scabs off was "old thinking" and not to do it. What's the base for the antiseptic cream you're using? If it's lanolin you could consider that your horse might be allergic to it and that could be aggravating the problem.
Some years ago, in consultation with the vet, I treated an Arab with 4 white legs living out in a field that had pretty nasty mud fever. Every day brought him off the field, wiped his legs as free of mud as I could (so not completely clean) and as dry as possible with a clean towel, slathered Barrier Hygiene Heel to Hoof http://www.barrier-biotech.com/product.php?pid=HH and turned him back out in the mud. In about 2 weeks the results were really good, the swelling went down quite quickly and stayed down because he was moving about. The scabs started to come off naturally after about 2 weeks I think, leaving healthy pink skin underneath. The mud fever cleared up completely even though he was still living out in a very wet winter, and I was able to gradually reduce the H to H to about every 3 or 4 days as a protective barrier. The ointment also lifted off the mud and prevented it sticking again, so after a couple of days I was wiping it off with the towel and finding his legs pretty clean underneath.
I think even if this were to be an allergic reaction to something in your grazing rather than mud fever, this might be a useful course of action to try. It has worked on every horse I've used it on since, apart from one that had already developed Cellulitis. Sometimes friends will try it at my suggestion, other times they won't. It's almost too easy for some I think, having the horse washed, dried, jumping about as scabs get pulled off makes them feel they are actually doing something maybe?
)
asommerville
Well-Known Member
you want to.keep the lwgs dry, washing everyday will.not help.too.much whether with hibiscrub or.not. i would say keep in.for a couple.of days to let the legs dry out and apply some.kind of cresm.to.remove the scabs and treat the area. covering the area with boots imo will.make it worse as i think the bacteria will thrive under hot wet conditions. i have used aromaheel in the past, brilliant stuff and after a couple of days horse was ok to go back out.
i.know youve had loads of different advice but the main thing i think is to keep horse in, itll be better in the long run he won't die
i.know youve had loads of different advice but the main thing i think is to keep horse in, itll be better in the long run he won't die
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
I would use something like hs, to get it to a stage where the air can circulate and it can start to heal, that being said, I would use a weak solution, but that's just me, Im no oracle on MF, have only had to treat a few horses over the years. That being said, definately box rest, although if you have a school, you could turn out in there for a couple of hours so he can have a stretch out daily.
Marydoll
Well-Known Member
Hibiscrub is an excellent bacteriocidal wash, its people who use it in the wrong way, after initial scrub out with this, you really should only need a saline wash or very dilute hibiscrub wash, but saline is cheaper you can make it yourself and will clean as well.
I wouldnt be putting boots on over ointment/cream is not a good idea, they will move with the ointment, rub and cause more irritation.
Id have to say it doesnt sound like the topical antibiotic is working if its getting worse, but thats possibly due to the friction from the boots on turnout.
As others have said, keep the area dry if you can, if your fields arent that muddy, i would wash down the areas, allow to dry, slap yellow summer fly oint on the affected areas, its a good all round healing ointment, being an ointment doesnt fully come off in wet grass, and keeps flies away, for me your horse is better out to walk off the oedema, even if only for an short spell morning and night. Get some oral antibiotics if the vet feels he needs them, but i wouldnt cover the legs, ive personally never seen that work on any horse
I bought a horse with mud fever, and this regime did work for me
Everyone has their own way of treating and tbh just like people what works for some doesnt for others.
Speak to your vet again as cellulitis would be a worry, and if the legs are very sore and weeping the horse does need systemic antibiotics.
Good luck
I wouldnt be putting boots on over ointment/cream is not a good idea, they will move with the ointment, rub and cause more irritation.
Id have to say it doesnt sound like the topical antibiotic is working if its getting worse, but thats possibly due to the friction from the boots on turnout.
As others have said, keep the area dry if you can, if your fields arent that muddy, i would wash down the areas, allow to dry, slap yellow summer fly oint on the affected areas, its a good all round healing ointment, being an ointment doesnt fully come off in wet grass, and keeps flies away, for me your horse is better out to walk off the oedema, even if only for an short spell morning and night. Get some oral antibiotics if the vet feels he needs them, but i wouldnt cover the legs, ive personally never seen that work on any horse
I bought a horse with mud fever, and this regime did work for me
Everyone has their own way of treating and tbh just like people what works for some doesnt for others.
Speak to your vet again as cellulitis would be a worry, and if the legs are very sore and weeping the horse does need systemic antibiotics.
Good luck
siennamum
Well-Known Member
Poor you, so much different advice and I think the only thing which is certain about this kind of dermatitis is that what works for one horse probably won't work on another.
It is worth getting a skin scrape done. You can understand whether you are dealing with a fungus or bacteria.
I would hesitate to wash the legs daily or pick scabs off personally as this could compromise the skin and could make the youngster hostile to you treating him.
Have another chat with your vet, I like to use hibiscrub or Malaseb, well diluted. I Wash only every few days, rinse leg & dry carefully & thoroughly and then an appropriate cream. Clomatrizole (Canasten) is great for any fungal infection. Udder cream is also great. Having had bad experiences with them I avoid any steroid creams or similar. I would also avoid covering the leg in any way, you will create a nice environment for the germs.
A degree of celulitis is inevitable I think, if mild it wouldn't concern me too much, but get concerned if it doesn't go down quikcly with movement. Work with your vet, as they will also have to use some trial and error, if you feel they are unyielding in their approach then I would seek a 2nd opinion, there is an increasing understanding of dermatitis which masquerades as mud fever but which is a reaction to UV and a reaction to certain plants.
It is worth getting a skin scrape done. You can understand whether you are dealing with a fungus or bacteria.
I would hesitate to wash the legs daily or pick scabs off personally as this could compromise the skin and could make the youngster hostile to you treating him.
Have another chat with your vet, I like to use hibiscrub or Malaseb, well diluted. I Wash only every few days, rinse leg & dry carefully & thoroughly and then an appropriate cream. Clomatrizole (Canasten) is great for any fungal infection. Udder cream is also great. Having had bad experiences with them I avoid any steroid creams or similar. I would also avoid covering the leg in any way, you will create a nice environment for the germs.
A degree of celulitis is inevitable I think, if mild it wouldn't concern me too much, but get concerned if it doesn't go down quikcly with movement. Work with your vet, as they will also have to use some trial and error, if you feel they are unyielding in their approach then I would seek a 2nd opinion, there is an increasing understanding of dermatitis which masquerades as mud fever but which is a reaction to UV and a reaction to certain plants.
Marydoll
Well-Known Member
Sorry i disagree, you may have some oedema and this will normally walk off, cellulitis is a different ballgame and can become life threatening very quickly if it isnt treated, if you even suspect cellulitis get the vet out asap
AmyMay
Situation normal
Agree.
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
Absolutely.^^^^
siennamum
Well-Known Member
Actually I also agree, I am thinking of filled legs/Odema, rather than cellulitis.
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
If cellulitis is a possibility, get vet out asap as has been suggested.
Ours with mudfever was left in paddock and if areas are bad then those sections fenced off, the swelling (if after being stabled) could be from stabling. We were recommended to stay on 24/7 turnout with ours to keep moving as paddock was not too muddy.
Pink lotion from the vet worked wonders, but can only get through vet. We didn't put anything over the cream as you are just creating a better environment for the bacteria.
I'd be seeking a second vets opinion though and not relying on the internet for a solution.
Pan
alex2
Well-Known Member
I have had exactly the same thing happen to my horse, white hind legs became very swollen when standing in box, ok when out in field, mud fever like scabs could be felt under the white hair but not visible. This went on for some weeks until I realised it was mud fever.
Mine are in during the day; I washed with hibiscrub once a week when bringing in from field removing scabs with fingers, you can feel these when rubbing in the hibiscrub. Make sure hibiscrub is diluted with water 50:50 as it is harsh.
Every night when legs are dry apply Sudocrem to affected areas before turning out. This has taken a few weeks to heal but it has gone now. However I am still washing with Hibiscrub once a week. I wouldn't cover the skin, it needs to breathe. If the swelling doesn't go then call your vet, the horse will need anti-biotics as eventually the infection gets in deep. I hope this helps, good luck.
Mine are in during the day; I washed with hibiscrub once a week when bringing in from field removing scabs with fingers, you can feel these when rubbing in the hibiscrub. Make sure hibiscrub is diluted with water 50:50 as it is harsh.
Every night when legs are dry apply Sudocrem to affected areas before turning out. This has taken a few weeks to heal but it has gone now. However I am still washing with Hibiscrub once a week. I wouldn't cover the skin, it needs to breathe. If the swelling doesn't go then call your vet, the horse will need anti-biotics as eventually the infection gets in deep. I hope this helps, good luck.
Marydoll
Well-Known Member
CarolineWilson
Member
Use the Lincoln products:
http://www.pegasushealth.com/product/Lincoln_Muddy_Buddy_Magic_Mud_Kure_Cream
They were developed in conjunction with the University of Lincoln and a very well-regarded products!
http://www.pegasushealth.com/product/Lincoln_Muddy_Buddy_Magic_Mud_Kure_Cream
They were developed in conjunction with the University of Lincoln and a very well-regarded products!