Mud Fever - HELP!!

[Tnavas]

Comparing the ointment with the shampoo is rather ridiculous as one is left on meaning the active ingredient is absorbed and the other rinsed off meaning the active ingredient is removed after a short time.

I recommend it as for the past 7 years I have used it with no adverse effects. My vet - a highly regarded specialised equine practise use it. I have vets both in America and UK using it.

I have been recommending it to H & H readers for several years now and if you read back through many Mudfever threads how thrilled they are that they can now use something that actually works without causing extreme pain to their horses.

While you may have a science degree, I have several equine related qualifications, I also specialise in veterinary care. With over 40 years working in the equine industry I do know what I am talking about. I've had horses come in from spelling with horrendous Mudfever which has promptly cleared up within days.

You will read on here of people who have been battling Mudfever for months. Nizoral at 1% will clear it up fast.

Mudfever in its first stage is fungal, once messed around with by owners by picking off scabs, and breaking the skin develops a secondary bacterial infection.

 

[khalswitz]

Comparing the ointment with the shampoo is rather ridiculous as one is left on meaning the active ingredient is absorbed and the other rinsed off meaning the active ingredient is removed after a short time.

I recommend it as for the past 7 years I have used it with no adverse effects. My vet - a highly regarded specialised equine practise use it. I have vets both in America and UK using it.

I have been recommending it to H & H readers for several years now and if you read back through many Mudfever threads how thrilled they are that they can now use something that actually works without causing extreme pain to their horses.

While you may have a science degree, I have several equine related qualifications, I also specialise in veterinary care. With over 40 years working in the equine industry I do know what I am talking about. I've had horses come in from spelling with horrendous Mudfever which has promptly cleared up within days.

You will read on here of people who have been battling Mudfever for months. Nizoral at 1% will clear it up fast.

Mudfever in its first stage is fungal, once messed around with by owners by picking off scabs, and breaking the skin develops a secondary bacterial infection.

Of course the active ingredient is absorbed when shampoo is used. Obviously there is not the same exposure, but if you are allergic to it, as it has been shown ketoconazole is an allergen, then you will still get a reaction! Hence why similar products licensed for animals such as malaseb shampoo all carry allergen warnings, and warnings for human handlers to wear PPE such as gloves.

Yes, I have a degree from Cambridge Vet School, and am completing my Masters part time at the Dick Vet, as well as having worked on competitions yards, stud farms, equine rescue and rehabilitation including nursing, and work as a healthcare professional in the veterinary industry. So I'm not talking out of my bum, thanks.

Also the plural of anecdote is not data. I could turn around and say that myself and most people I know have no problem with mud fever (even my horse who historically had horrendous mud fever) because we use alamycin, an antibacterial antibiotic, which clears up signs in a day or so (another reason aside from all the research and studies that have concluded that mud fever is bacterial, that causes me to believe mud fever is bacterial, especially when nizoral also has antibacterial properties - and I've never been a scab picker so you can't accuse me of introducing bacteria to a fungal infection either). However I would never go telling people to just use it without discussion with their vet, and alamycin doesn't have a known status as an allergen and cause of drug-related photosensitivity like ketoconazole. I think that is madness. And to be honest if you've worked in the veterinary industry I think you should know better than to just go telling people to buy and use a drug without any warning of side effects or discussion with their own veterinary professional.

 

[Tnavas]

If my own vet wasn't using Nizoral then I wouldn't be suggesting it. You can be melodramatic as you like while I will be sensible. On over 100 that I have personally used it on not one has had an adverse reaction.

I will go by my practical experience of the product. When shampoo is used only a small amount is absorbed into the skin as despite being 1% the water used to dissolve it reduces it's strength yet again.

Glad you are not a scab picker, wish we could convert the majority who torture their horses.

Next time your horse has an attack of Mudfever give the Nizoral a try. Far better not to use antibiotics if you can .

 

[khalswitz]

If my own vet wasn't using Nizoral then I wouldn't be suggesting it. You can be melodramatic as you like while I will be sensible. On over 100 that I have personally used it on not one has had an adverse reaction.

I will go by my practical experience of the product. When shampoo is used only a small amount is absorbed into the skin as despite being 1% the water used to dissolve it reduces it's strength yet again.

Glad you are not a scab picker, wish we could convert the majority who torture their horses.

Next time your horse has an attack of Mudfever give the Nizoral a try. Far better not to use antibiotics if you can .

I'm not being melodramatic - I have had experiences of horses reacting to things before (my own reacted to wound powder, to hypocare, and to hibiscrub, whilst I has a horse for training previously who had a massive reaction to malaseb shampoo for rain scald, as well as having seen a lot of cases through the vet school of animals with skin problems that need spot testing for any new product to avoid reactions) and therefore I am more aware of it and tend to manage for it. Without a veterinary history, making a recommendation of a drug with proven action as an allergen to me seems absurd, but because I have seen the other side of it - you obviously haven't.

As I've said my lad does react to things, so I would have a long chat with my vet and a patch test before trying it tbh, but sorting out his diet and management, with the antibs for any occasional flare has taken him from being lame with it previously to having not had a flare up since last year, so seems to be working... With his immune system better, he seems to cope better with the bacteria on his skin rather than stressed skin becoming infected.

 

[Tnavas]

khalwitz - all your information relates to humans!

My PRACTICAL knowledge comes from using Nizoral with no problem on over 100 horses - probably more than would be used in a clinical trial.

Providing a horse with the right minerals such as Copper and Zinc will definitely reduce or totally prevent flare ups.

 

[khalswitz]

khalwitz - all your information relates to humans!

My PRACTICAL knowledge comes from using Nizoral with no problem on over 100 horses - probably more than would be used in a clinical trial.

Providing a horse with the right minerals such as Copper and Zinc will definitely reduce or totally prevent flare ups.

But as any vet will tell you, broadly speaking drugs work similarly in most mammals and humans - obviously you have different dosage rates, absorption rates, but generally are metabolised similarly (vets learn human meds too, and learn the exceptions amongst various species). The many, many off license drugs used in horses base their assumptions on human trials (a lot of drug companies don't bother spending money working out metabolism rates for specifically horses, especially if a niche product) and most trials start out that way.

Specifically for horses, Nizoral isn't licensed, so you won't find specifics on number of horses affected because technically the drug isn't designed for them, so tests haven't been carried out and they can guarantee nothing. In those off-license situations, as a vet, you extrapolate dosage and side effects based on the human notes for the drug, and patch test/keep an eye out for reactions. I've done this many times using off-license drugs on horses - doesn't mean you can't use them, I remember reading something like 40% of veterinary prescribed drugs are human drugs used off license. But you have to follow the warnings noted in human testing, as well as an eye for any further reaction.

However a 0.15% ketoconazole product for horses below also lists a caution regarding skin irritation - in a wash form. Also states should only be prescribed by a vet.

http://www.drugs.com/vet/ket-flush.html

"exclusively through licensed veterinarians only"
"If undue ear or skin irritation develops or increases, discontinue use and consult a veterinarian"

On the Nizoral website, the shampoo is listed as "Severe hypersensitivity reactions, including anaphylaxis, have been reported during post- marketing use of NIZORAL® (ketoconazole) Shampoo. If a reaction suggesting sensitivity or chemical irritation should occur, use of the medication should be discontinued."

 

[Tnavas]

I do understand that there have probably been no clinical trials done on the use of Nizerol for horses - however after using it on over 100 horses with no problems I would consider it a reasonably safe product to use. As I stated earlier - if clinical trials were done they rarely use that number of horses as we all know from other trials done for other things.

Can you give me a link to the actual Nizoral site as I can't seem to find what you are finding even through advanced search

 

[khalswitz]

I do understand that there have probably been no clinical trials done on the use of Nizerol for horses - however after using it on over 100 horses with no problems I would consider it a reasonably safe product to use. As I stated earlier - if clinical trials were done they rarely use that number of horses as we all know from other trials done for other things.

Can you give me a link to the actual Nizoral site as I can't seem to find what you are finding even through advanced search

I'm on my phone but bear with me while I go find it. Interestingly it said that trials showed no effects, as like you say initial trials can be small numbers, but post-marketing there have been numerous cases. It was the US prescription information from the developers site I read - I'll go find the link... So if the developer admits it!!!

 

[khalswitz]

http://www.janssenpharmaceuticalsinc.com/assets/nizoral_shampoo.pdf

Sorry the developer website not the Nizoral website - must have been diverted off it. States about initial trials being favourable but post-marketing effects seen.

Also whilst searching just read the FDA analysis - they have side effects listed with incidence recorded, and skin irritation, dandruff, inflammation, pain on palpation and photo sensitivity is listed as uncommon, allergic reaction as rare and full anaphylaxis as very rare.

 

[g1paw@hotmail.co.uk]

Read the testimonial on KBF99 website - the brushes are getting good reviews for use on mudfever

 

[Auslander]

Read the testimonial on KBF99 website - the brushes are getting good reviews for use on mudfever

Surely you're not advocating using something with bristles on open, oozing, painful mud fever lesions? Would you tolerate it if your legs looked like this...