Multiple abscesses! Causes? How to prevent?!?

[Floofball]

Apologies if this is a ramble but I’m really struggling to make sense of my horses current situation ?

He has been blowing abscesses out of his heel bulbs in 3 feet, both hinds and front right. He started going ‘footy’ in July when the ground was rock hard - made sense as he’s barefoot so booted up for riding and he seemed ok. Farrier noticed an old exit hole on back left so after lots of faffing found boots that fitted hinds and he seemed fine again (he’d never needed hind boots before) the assumption being he was getting bruised on the unusually hard ground this summer. He did also get lots of tiny grass cracks, one of which became a concern, so was kept clean and packed. He got an exit wound in the heel bulb of that foot but wasn’t right on it despite tubbing poulticing so vet out and he found the track and dug out the back of the frog and LOTS of puss came out - horse much better and had my fingers crossed that as the ground had softened we’d be back to normal. All cracks have grown out now - thankfully he grows a lot of hoof!
NO, back left - exit hole on heel bulb, back right exit hole on heel bulb (getting sick of tubbing by now!) horse seemingly happy enough though so muddled through - then 2 (separate) exit holes appear back right, one of which was really quite large and angry looking and horse quite sore on that foot. Vet out, test for PPID - negative so now everyone a bit stumped ? vet also thought these are all separate infections and not grumbling abscesses.
His feet and heel bulbs have settled now but I don’t want to do anything with him as I don’t know what’s causing them. Vet and farrier are having a pow wow on Monday re next steps, probably repeat X-rays and maybe shoes, which I’d be happy to try. I can’t remember him ever having an abscess when shod.

I took him barefoot to rehab a ligament injury but there is now a pattern that shows he just doesn’t cope with hard ground at all. I don’t understand why as he has really good soles - so good/deep that abscesses have to track upwards ?

Vet has also given a hoof supplement to add to his barefoot diet in case he’s deficient in something (previously metabolic so still managed as lammi risk)

He’s gone from being comfortable on most surfaces and booting fronts for hard uneven ground to needing boots all round for a road hack. His feet are not coping and I’m worried about the future health of the bones in his feet.

He was shod in front last summer when he became footsore (nerve blocks, X-rays, bloods, steroid and HA injections were given then) but he was visibly more uncomfortable in them so they were removed and he was given bute and rested till everything settled again. In hindsight it was probably bruising then, possibly affecting pedal bone but only diagnosable with MRI, he’s not insured so that wasn’t done. Been sound from Oct last year up until starting with these abscesses.

Wow - that WAS a ramble!!!! Feel better for getting it out of my head though, wine and cake to anyone that got to the end. If anyone has had similar experiences please let me know how you got on.
I will keep updating this post as things unfold ??????

 

[SafeInSage]

I haven’t got much to offer except to suggest putting this on the horse vet corner page on Facebook. They might have some explanations based on their experiences.

 

[HeyMich]

How old is he? And what test did the vet do for PPID? Our wee barefoot pony had what seemed like an endless string of abscesses this time last year and tested negative on the normal ACHT test, but very slightly positive on the TRH stim test. We started him on a tiny dose of prascend and he hasn't had an abscess since. Definitely worth doing the stim test, or even just a trial of prascend anyway. Hope you get to the bottom of it soon and he starts to improve.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It's normally always a metabolic symptom i would re test or do an ems test or speak to your vet about a low dose of Prascend, one of mine was borderline but because he just didnt shed his coat vet wanted him on half a tablet a day.

The test for cushings is known for not giving a true reading I had 2 negative tests 3rd one was positive on my mare and she had cushings and ems and constant abscesses

 

[Barton Bounty]

Id always take my farriers opinion with anything to do with feet first.
I really hope you get to the bottom of it, sounds like a nightmare ?

 

[Floofball]

I haven’t got much to offer except to suggest putting this on the horse vet corner page on Facebook. They might have some explanations based on their experiences.

Hi, thanks for the reply - do you have a link for the page please - I can’t find a match?

 

[SafeInSage]

Hi, thanks for the reply - do you have a link for the page please - I can’t find a match?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/277077519400687/?ref=share&fs=e&s=cl

It’s a private group but they don’t take long to let you in. You’re not allowed to comment on posts (vets are only allowed to comment) and be careful not to use the angry face reaction on other peoples posts, they’re a bit strict with rules ? (sounds silly, but there are a LOT of posts on there that deserve an angry reaction, like when people ask if something is an emergency, when it obviously is).

 

[Floofball]

How old is he? And what test did the vet do for PPID? Our wee barefoot pony had what seemed like an endless string of abscesses this time last year and tested negative on the normal ACHT test, but very slightly positive on the TRH stim test. We started him on a tiny dose of prascend and he hasn't had an abscess since. Definitely worth doing the stim test, or even just a trial of prascend anyway. Hope you get to the bottom of it soon and he starts to improve.

Hi, thanks for replying - he’s 14 and had ACTH test. Result was 17.8 with grey area for this time of year 24-43. Last year he was tested in June with a result of 11.7 and the grey area quoted as 19-35
Liphook said ‘no support for PPID’ I asked about TRH and vet was reluctant as if only detectable on stim test you have to carry on with stim tests to monitor if medicated ?‍ will ask tomorrow re a trail to monitor symptoms only?

 

[Floofball]

It's normally always a metabolic symptom i would re test or do an ems test or speak to your vet about a low dose of Prascend, one of mine was borderline but because he just didnt shed his coat vet wanted him on half a tablet a day.

The test for cushings is known for not giving a true reading I had 2 negative tests 3rd one was positive on my mare and she had cushings and ems and constant abscesses

Hi, thanks for replying - I’ve posted ACTH results in post above. His last resting insulin was 10.1 so it is creeping up. Having got it down to 4.0 during his reversal of EMS, I’m very suspicious and he was starting to show metabolic symptoms at the end of summer - think it was due to the very stressed grass following the drought and the hay being too good for him. He’s now back on old meadow hay but grass is still growing here. If I can’t exercise him he’ll have to come off grass and go back to soaked hay ? he’s put weight on already as not been worked for over a week!

Still unclear of how it causes the abscesses though? i.e I’m assuming bruising but how if ground soft and booted for exercise? if it’s grit getting in from somewhere would shoes be better option to seal the white line? Hoping for a plan when Vet and Farrier get their heads together ?? Sorry, that was another ramble! ? my heads mashed with it!

ETA resting insulin results show as negative for EMS at <32

 

[Floofball]

Id always take my farriers opinion with anything to do with feet first.
I really hope you get to the bottom of it, sounds like a nightmare ?

Thanks BB, luckily my new farrier is the remedial farrier the vets use so I’ve got everything crossed he comes up with a plan ?? He really supports barefoot so I’ve been doing my best to keep him that way, but been secretly hoping that some sort of supportive shoeing might be the answer. I really struggle managing his weight if he can’t be exercised so worry about that too ?

 

[Barton Bounty]

Thanks BB, luckily my new farrier is the remedial farrier the vets use so I’ve got everything crossed he comes up with a plan ?? He really supports barefoot so I’ve been doing my best to keep him that way, but been secretly hoping that some sort of supportive shoeing might be the answer. I really struggle managing his weight if he can’t be exercised so worry about that too ?

Thats good! Sounds like they have a plan! They are a bloody worry arent they ??

 

[meleeka]

I think i’d have x-rays at this point. Mine had recurring abscesses and x-rays showed ‘maybe’ affecting the pedal bone. That was enough for vet to prescribe antibiotics (not sure what they were called, but usually used in cattle and given when other antibiotics don’t work). The problem in that foot was sorted. She was also in the grey area for PPID and I really wish I’d have insisted on further testing/Prascend trial now. I lost her in the summer to laminitis in her good leg (she was a big horse so likely caused by keeping her weight off the bad leg).

 

[paddy555]

cushings. Mine was the same. Lived off grass so that was not a factor. Was barefoot and booted so not a factor but lots of abscesses. Tried shoes but still abscesses. Negative ACTH tests. I put him on prascend as a trial and bye bye abscesses. They never came back, before then they had been the bane of my life.

If this was my horse I wouldn't waste any money on any more tests before trialling prascend for 3 months. Abscesses are a well known symptom of cushings. I think you need to rule that out. If you can put a stop to the abscesses then you can get on with exercising him.

I don't know why they get abscesses due to cushings just how to stop them. I suspect it may be the immune system. My cushings horse had lots of infections, especially throat infections. He always had to have an extra bottle of anti biotics and the dose was twice as long as for a normal horse. Once on prascend again all of this stopped.

ETA in fact most of the infections he went down with you wouldn't even have bothered to give a normal horse antibiotics they would just have coped. He couldn't.

 

[Floofball]

I think i’d have x-rays at this point. Mine had recurring abscesses and x-rays showed ‘maybe’ affecting the pedal bone. That was enough for vet to prescribe antibiotics (not sure what they were called, but usually used in cattle and given when other antibiotics don’t work). The problem in that foot was sorted. She was also in the grey area for PPID and I really wish I’d have insisted on further testing/Prascend trial now. I lost her in the summer to laminitis in her good leg (she was a big horse so likely caused by keeping her weight off the bad leg).

Hi, thanks for your reply - I liked your post for your information but I’m so sorry you lost your horse ?
I’m expecting X-rays to be the next thing to be done and if not suggested I’ll request them - hate the thought of these infections being in the foot near delicate bones. I did ask if antibiotics could help clear things up but they’ve not been offered yet. Even though he has a history of previously being metabolic he’s never had laminitis (touches lots of wood while typing that!)

 

[Floofball]

cushings. Mine was the same. Lived off grass so that was not a factor. Was barefoot and booted so not a factor but lots of abscesses. Tried shoes but still abscesses. Negative ACTH tests. I put him on prascend as a trial and bye bye abscesses. They never came back, before then they had been the bane of my life.

If this was my horse I wouldn't waste any money on any more tests before trialling prascend for 3 months. Abscesses are a well known symptom of cushings. I think you need to rule that out. If you can put a stop to the abscesses then you can get on with exercising him.

I don't know why they get abscesses due to cushings just how to stop them. I suspect it may be the immune system. My cushings horse had lots of infections, especially throat infections. He always had to have an extra bottle of anti biotics and the dose was twice as long as for a normal horse. Once on prascend again all of this stopped.

ETA in fact most of the infections he went down with you wouldn't even have bothered to give a normal horse antibiotics they would just have coped. He couldn't.

Hi Paddy, thanks for replying. I think the vets, and other people, can’t understand that I seemed flustered and a bit disappointed that he was negative ? but in my mind it would explain a lot of things and be treatable - although obviously it would be better if he wasn’t poorly and have to be on life long medication!
The only good thing this year (as I said a pattern has been developing) is that the footiness has resulted in abscesses that are visible and treatable so I’m not running down the rabbit hole of unexplained lameness - every cloud and all that ?
I will be asking about a prascend trail following peoples responses ??

 

[Dexter]

Whats the supplement? Not all hoof supplements are the same quality sadly.

 

[HashRouge]

Mine had the exact same and returned a borderline cushings result. Vet said at those levels they normally wouldn't bother to medicate, but given the abscesses she thought it was a good idea...we haven't had a single abscess since she started on prascend (10 years ago). In your case, I'd be wondering whether your horse had a bout of lami over the summer and the abscesses are as a result of that. I'd probably be wanting x rays to have a look at what's going on in there.

 

[Floofball]

Whats the supplement? Not all hoof supplements are the same quality sadly.

Biotex80 by Hestevard - money back guarantee apparently if no improvements after 150 days - ingredients look super concentrated but can’t find any reviews yet ?‍
I’ve also recently put him back on Spillars Lite & Lean balancer which is the balancer recommended on the laminitis site as having the best ingredient/levels of to promote hoof health ??

 

[Floofball]

Mine had the exact same and returned a borderline cushings result. Vet said at those levels they normally wouldn't bother to medicate, but given the abscesses she thought it was a good idea...we haven't had a single abscess since she started on prascend (10 years ago). In your case, I'd be wondering whether your horse had a bout of lami over the summer and the abscesses are as a result of that. I'd probably be wanting x rays to have a look at what's going on in there.

Hi thanks for replying - hopefully be having X-rays next week. Interesting thought re lami, he could’ve had a mild episode from concussion during the rock hard ground spell? He’s never been sensitive to hoof testers but he does have very thick soles ? he’s also only had a digital pulse on his front right just before the abscess blew. Just don’t know why he’s still getting them now ?‍

 

[Dexter]

Biotex80 by Hestevard - money back guarantee apparently if no improvements after 150 days - ingredients look super concentrated but can’t find any reviews yet ?‍
I’ve also recently put him back on Spillars Lite & Lean balancer which is the balancer recommended on the laminitis site as having the best ingredient/levels of to promote hoof health ??

That is ridiculously expensive. I also can't find any ingredients anywhere. they push the large amounts of biotin, but that's not what you need in a hoof supplement. I'd swap to forage plus or progressive earth, Id also be adding vitamin e and tri aminos. If he's on a restricted diet he will be lacking in vitamin e and protein. Probably not the cause but absolutely won't be helping

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Hi, thanks for replying - he’s 14 and had ACTH test. Result was 17.8 with grey area for this time of year 24-43. Last year he was tested in June with a result of 11.7 and the grey area quoted as 19-35
Liphook said ‘no support for PPID’ I asked about TRH and vet was reluctant as if only detectable on stim test you have to carry on with stim tests to monitor if medicated ?‍ will ask tomorrow re a trail to monitor symptoms only?

I would insist on having the TRH-Stim test, if the levels need to be monitored the test isn't particularly onerous for anyone concerned but usually the owner just needs to monitor symptoms. If your vet continues to refuse I would change vets because IMHO it is almost certainly a Cushings symptom, although he is only in his early teens.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would just ask for a Prascend trial the stim test is quite expensive along with x rays for a horse that is not insured, the symptoms are there I can't see why a vet wouldn't just put the horse on a low dose.

Is the horse not ridden at all now?

 

[meleeka]

Hi, thanks for your reply - I liked your post for your information but I’m so sorry you lost your horse ?
I’m expecting X-rays to be the next thing to be done and if not suggested I’ll request them - hate the thought of these infections being in the foot near delicate bones. I did ask if antibiotics could help clear things up but they’ve not been offered yet. Even though he has a history of previously being metabolic he’s never had laminitis (touches lots of wood while typing that!)

Mine had never had laminitis or been even slightly metabolic either, so it’s always a risk when they spend time with their weight on one side.

 

[Getbackboys]

codlivine has everything in it for good hoof health at £16 for 2kg value for money defo recommend it

 

[Dexter]

codlivine has everything in it for good hoof health at £16 for 2kg value for money defo recommend it

It really does not

Ingredients. Grassmeal, Wheatfeed, Cod Liver Oil (15%), Calcium Carbonate, Di-Calcium Phosphate, Sodium Chloride,Trace Elements, Magnesium Oxide, Vitamins, L-Lysine, Flavour, Methionine. Contains: Butylated Hydroxyanisole (E320), Ethoxyquin (E324).

 

[Floofball]

Is the horse not ridden at all now?

Not since his most recent and largest exit hole appeared on his back right - so last ten days. Because I don’t know what’s causing them I’m reluctant to ask him to do anything - also not happy booting him up over the wounds until they‘ve grown down some more so can’t even take him on gentle hacks atm ?
He’s sound again now so currently going on the walker, which is a nice large one with thick rubber flooring in the hope that he won’t damage his feet on that but at least get some controlled exercise until I hopefully get some answers.

 

[paddy555]

I IMHO it is almost certainly a Cushings symptom, although he is only in his early teens.

mine was 12

 

[ameeyal]

My horse is barefoot and was getting abcesses on a regular basis particular on his back feet, and sometimes front , long story short , I decided to start trimming more off his bars ( I trim my own horses ) as his bars do grow fast and start to lay over, which was coursing tender spots resulting in abcesses, and since I’ve been doing that no more abcesses, it’s been nearly 2 years now.I to had my horse tested , and had X-rays.

 

[Floofball]

So, a little update on my lad. He was doing fine while we were waiting for farrier (due next week, he was too busy to come sooner) then at weekend blew another exit wound on his back right and was sore on it and became quite depressed. Went for X-rays yesterday and there’s a possible fracture to the inside wing of the pedal bone in that foot!!! ? he’s been on and off with it since mid August when the ground was at its hardest so assuming it happened then. Those X-rays have been sent to Dick Vets for specialist appraisal so I should know tomorrow what the plan will be for it ??
Both fronts show some medial lateral imbalance so vets going to speak with farrier before he comes to do him. Thought are the pressure of the imbalance on the hard ground in summer caused the bruising (he was landing outside edge when he was footy) which led to the abscessing.
Seeing as a pattern has been emerging over the last couple of years, it has become apparent that he just doesn’t cope with hard ground barefoot. Going forward he’s going to be shod all round before the ground gets baked and remove shoes Dec - Feb for a shoeing break ?? I don’t want a 3rd year of trying to keep him comfortable, treating abscesses and ever increasing vet bills!
I’m just hoping that this isn’t going to be a box rest situation. There are lots of success stories out there for complete recovery but all seem to involve lengthy stints of box rest ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

mine was 12

I had a 6 Yr old Shire pts with an undiagnosed illness, despite vet involvement for over 3 months. Now I am pretty sure she had Cushings.

Eta, I am glad you know what the oriblem is and that it should be fixable but if the horse were mine, I would consider finding a different farrier.