Munchausens by proxy in owners

little_critter said:
Sorry to be a little defensive.
But it sounds to me like you are aware your mares mood changes with the seasons.
My mares mood has not changed with the seasons in the last 5 years...so this was an unusual change in behaviour for me. And she wasnt just a bit nippy, these were strong 'back off or else' signals.
It went on for 2 weeks, are you saying you would have left it 3 months? (spring)
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My mare either wasn't like it every winter at first or I didn't identify a pattern.

If she was still eating, drinking, working and her temp was fine then yes, I would wait to see how she was when it warmed up. Winter has a funny effect on horses and horses change as they age/yard changes/hay changes - it could be anything.
 
little_critter said:
The vet did say this but also said there is usually a carryover of eggs too, so if there was a large worm emergence then he would also expect to see more eggs too.

You say you'd start investigating a buckiing horse after a few weeks, this behaviour change lasted two weeks consistently. I didn't pick up the phone the first day she tried to bite.
I guess it's difficult, on one hand you are told "you know your horse best", then on the other you are brushed off for being concerned about what seems to be a strong behaviour change.
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I don't think I was particularly clear, sorry. I'd investigate a horse bucking repeatedly throughout the whole ride, every ride, for a few weeks; not a horse that threw in an occasional buck per ride.

I wouldn't investigate a horse trying to bite when rugged for a few weeks, beyond checking the horse wasn't too hot, the rug didn't have something stuck in it eg a big splinter which was digging in, the horse doesn't have sore spots/pressure places from the rug (too small or heavy a rug can affect the withers area if they've been wearing it a long time).

You weren't wrong to call the vet if you felt you needed to and you're not the "yard nutter" for having done so. But your situation demonstrates why I wouldn't. The vet came out and based on initial symptoms hasn't diagnosed anything, so by calling them out you've gained nothing but a vet bill (you don't even sound as if you've gained reassurance or peace of mind).
 
I know of someone whom my friends and I are convinced had MbP. She had 3 or 4 horse put down in about 6 years - after suffering from many 'illnesses' herself from the age of about 12 onwards. There seemed to be a pattern in that she'd have a new horse and would do loads with it for about 6 months then the 'problems' would start, just as the novelty wore off. The problems were all really unusual, difficult to diagnose and resulted in lots of veterinary intervention including bone scans, MRI scans etc. The horse would then be put down and the cycle would start again. Mummy and Daddy (and insurance)were funding all this.

She now has a baby - I think there was potential for it to happen there too but fate may have intervened. She apparently had IVF to get pregnant despite only having been with her partner about a year by the time she got pregnant - I wouldn't have thought it was long enough to even realise they had a problem let alone have tests and go through all the procedures. They went on holiday when she was about 6 months pregnant - on a cruise and she went into labour off the coast of Croatia. She had a helicopter rescue to a small hospital with no facilities to deal with this sort of thing, the baby was very very sick and within 12 hours was helicoptered to a bigger hospital. They were stuck in Croatia for 6 weeks and then had a private jet home with the baby in a special incubator. He spent another 7 months in hospital in this country and nearly died on several occasions. He's now about 5 years old and since finally leaving hospital, we've heard nothing but good news about him. I think a genuine scare may have actually helped to stop it.
 
annagain said:
I know of someone whom my friends and I are convinced had MbP. She had 3 or 4 horse put down in about 6 years - after suffering from many 'illnesses' herself from the age of about 12 onwards. There seemed to be a pattern in that she'd have a new horse and would do loads with it for about 6 months then the 'problems' would start, just as the novelty wore off. The problems were all really unusual, difficult to diagnose and resulted in lots of veterinary intervention including bone scans, MRI scans etc. The horse would then be put down and the cycle would start again. Mummy and Daddy (and insurance)were funding all this.

She now has a baby - I think there was potential for it to happen there too but fate may have intervened. She apparently had IVF to get pregnant despite only having been with her partner about a year by the time she got pregnant - I wouldn't have thought it was long enough to even realise they had a problem let alone have tests and go through all the procedures. They went on holiday when she was about 6 months pregnant - on a cruise and she went into labour off the coast of Croatia. She had a helicopter rescue to a small hospital with no facilities to deal with this sort of thing, the baby was very very sick and within 12 hours was helicoptered to a bigger hospital. They were stuck in Croatia for 6 weeks and then had a private jet home with the baby in a special incubator. He spent another 7 months in hospital in this country and nearly died on several occasions. He's now about 5 years old and since finally leaving hospital, we've heard nothing but good news about him. I think a genuine scare may have actually helped to stop it.
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Or she just had terrible luck with horses and did not want a field full of lawn mowers
 
My mares are the same regardless of seasons and are sweet tempered, so for them a dramatic change in behaviour would be a big warning sign that something was amiss.

I have had a horse with encysted redworms and the behaviour it caused was very specific, no grumpiness, just an obvious discomfort and desperation to try to get in a comfortable position. She would lie down with her front legs, but would stay standing with the hinds. The behaviour stopped as soon as the worms were dealt with which did require veterinary advice as the horse had been wormed correctly previously.
 
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Goldenstar said:
Or she just had terrible luck with horses and did not want a field full of lawn mowers
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I can see how it could look like that to someone who didn't know her but knowing her and seeing the horses day in day out, we're convinced she was the problem and not them. There was one horse who got away (we think insurance had refused to pay out). She sold her to a mutual friend as a hack only after she'd apparently had loads of treatment for navicular. Friend knew the full history but knew there was a chance none of it was true. They shared the same vet and when she told the vet she wanted a full set of x-rays because of her history the vet said he couldn't go into detail but there was absolutely no need. 10 years later, the horse is still doing really well and has done far more than just hacking.
 
Faracat said:
My mares are the same regardless of seasons and are sweet tempered, so for them a dramatic change in behaviour would be a big warning sign that something was amiss.

I have had a horse with encysted redworms and the behaviour it caused was very specific, no grumpiness, just an obvious discomfort and desperation to try to get in a comfortable position. She would lie down with her front legs, but would stay standing with the hinds. The behaviour stopped as soon as the worms were dealt with which did require veterinary advice as the horse had been wormed correctly previously.
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Phew - I can take off the straightjacket then ;)
 
I know of someone who has had several horses PTS because they were 'ill' or had severe 'behavioural problems'.

There was nothing wrong with any of them, it was 100% the owner. A couple of people even offered to take one of the ponies but she had it shot instead.

Bizarrely she seems to have a bit of a cult following with lots of people commiserating with her about her bad luck and even offering her replacement ponies. All very, very strange!
 
Its a very fine line between genuine illnesses and ailments diagnosed due to research and better knowledge these days, or people looking for problems that aren't there. These is a whole plethora of supplements, specialist diets, gadgets and gizmos to supposedly improve our horses, and im shocked sometimes at the amount some people spend on these. From what ive seen, some peoples horses seem to have constant issues of some kind or other, meaning the owner cant ride it. Yet from where Im stood I see a naughty, rather spoilt horse that just need discipline , a simple life going back to basics, and exercise ! As others have already said, theres absolutely no shame in admitting you don't want to ride anymore, so just admit it. Don't hide behind made up ailments/conditions. Some people even do it to get attention (good old Facebook) However there has been massive progression made meaning it is easier to diagnose conditions these days so as I said, its a very fine line.
 
There is a difference between health anxiety and munchausens by proxy . The first is caring too much and worry driven, the second involves abuse (damaging/ making ill )of the 'proxy' inducing illness so that the abuser gets lots of attention.
 
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