Murderers in jail 'too long'

[Puppy]

From the BBC news site:


Some murderers are serving too long in jail, meaning prisons will become "full of geriatric lifers", Lord Chief Justice Lord Phillips has said.

He questioned the need for a mandatory life sentence for murder and voiced doubts murder law reforms would succeed without changing the sentencing regime.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6433195.stm

 

[RachaelV]

Shouldnt it be
'Murderers not in jail lon enough!!!!!'


and how about the girl who was thumped five times by the police officer???.............perhaps he should have made it ten times and knocked a bit of sense into her lol

 

[Thistle]

Speaking as someone who has been directly affected by this, (SIL was murdered in a very high profile case), the thought of ever coming face to face with the culprit is horrifying. Luckily for us he is one of the few for who 'life means life' as after the verdict was announced a string of other incidents were revealed. He was SIL's ex btw)

 

[suestowford]

If convicted of murder (as opposed to manslaughter) then I do believe that a long sentence is right. These people have taken a life or lives, it is only right that their lives are taken from them. So I disagree with the Lord Chief Justice. I'm interested to see what other people think.

 

[RachaelV]

I for one am sick and tired of hearing how overcrowded the prisons are. they arnt meant to be hotels, if you ask me, murderers and paedopiles should be put out of their misery , hence problem solved.

 

[Puppy]

I'm very sorry to hear that Thistle. It must be very hard for you and your family. H. xxx

 

[Sooty]

Oh I love it. Really, I thought I was hallucinating when I heard this this morning. Prisons are overcrowded? Release the prisoners! Excellent Smithers.

The other day I saw a clip fom the pilot episode of The Bill, where two police officers told a young black boy not to ride his bike on the pavement. He obediently got off the bike, and apologised. Fast forward 23 years to today - that scenario seems like something from another planet. He would probably be stopped for having a knife, or not stopped at all because of all the paperwork the police would have to fill in. Law and order has become practically non-existent in some areas. In our village we used to have a village bobby who lived in the village. Now, our beat officer is based 12 miles away. Very handy!

I sometimes think it takes longer to catch and try a murderer than the time they end up spending in prison. Words fail me.

 

[GinaB]

Ridiculous. You take a life, you should serve life. And life should mean life, not 15 odd years. It's a disgrace.

 

[lizzieshimmer]

have they wondered why crime rates have increased since the death penalty was abolished? for goodness sake its no surprise that people dont report things like rapes anymore when they know the person is very unlikely to be caught and sentenced and even if they are they usually only get a few years. which can make the whole situation worse

 

[Christmas_Kate]

Life for a life. With today's dna etc it is almost impossible to catch the wrong person. Paedophiles and murderers (cold blooded ones) should just be bloomin hung.

Stop putting kids in men's and women's prisons, and there'll be room for all the dirty nonces, murderers etc. Stick kids (ie under 20's) in proper detention centres, and free up space.

As someone who speaks from knowledge and experience, the prison service is a shambles. The courts are a joke, and probation spend their days scratching their backsides looking for the quiet life. And the home office... no comment.

 

[severnmiles]

I think Reggie Kray served for too long.....shoot me down folks

 

[YorksG]

One of the problems with mandatory life sentences is that there is no recognition of 'degree' of murder, thus a woman who kills her partner when he is asleep because she is frightened that he will kill her when he wakes up would get the same sentence as some-one who rapes and then kills his victim. Both are murder, not self-defence or manslaughter. I'm not sure that I am happy with the comment about probation officers sitting on their backsides, I don't work for the probation service but did work with them about 15 years ago and like all the public services are expected to do more work with fewer workers.
At the risk of upsetting people I do think that if services were put in place for children and young people with problems the jails would not be as full.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the problems with mandatory life sentences is that there is no recognition of 'degree' of murder, thus a woman who kills her partner when he is asleep because she is frightened that he will kill her when he wakes up would get the same sentence as some-one who rapes and then kills his victim. Both are murder, not self-defence or manslaughter. I'm not sure that I am happy with the comment about probation officers sitting on their backsides, I don't work for the probation service but did work with them about 15 years ago and like all the public services are expected to do more work with fewer workers.
At the risk of upsetting people I do think that if services were put in place for children and young people with problems the jails would not be as full.

[/ QUOTE ]

As with every job, you get the good and bad. The bad people let down the good.
A probation worker who tells a dangerous prisoner out on license that someone has been telling lies about him? And then sits and smirks about it. Dangerous prisoners banned from areas, yet still freely walking about in said areas. A probation hostel for dangerous men, rapists and paedophiles housed next to a nurses quarters and student accomodation? (and what's the point in putting rapists and men serving for GBH in rooms together? asking for murder if you ask me).

In reply to the other post, Reggie had a better time in prison than most. He was an absolute gentleman.

 

[YorksG]

If dangerous people on license are in places they are banned from that is the job for the police to arrest them, not the probation officer. Individual probation officers are not responsible for the siting of hostels neither is it the responsibility of the probation service which prisoner is housed with which, but the prison service.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
If dangerous people on license are in places they are banned from that is the job for the police to arrest them, not the probation officer. Individual probation officers are not responsible for the siting of hostels neither is it the responsibility of the probation service which prisoner is housed with which, but the prison service.

[/ QUOTE ]

so, probation workers in a hostel have no say over if a GBH prisoner shares a room with a paedophile??
And then, leaving female probation workers, and support workers alone with these men on a night shift?? Is that down to the prison service??

 

[YorksG]

If they are in a hostel they are not prisoners, they are ex prisoners or on lisence. Would you also not allow women police officers to work without a male colleague, or female mental health nurses to not work on male wards?

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
He was an absolute gentleman.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a big fan of him! Such a shame he didn't get more than two weeks free before his death. My dad was around that way when they were in their hey day and said the streets were safe (though oddly enough my old boss chased them off of B'ham turf!), people have served far less for random brutal murders and I'm sure Cornell wasn't a great loss (known for torture) and Jack the hat wasn't exactly a loss to the world either!

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
If they are in a hostel they are not prisoners, they are ex prisoners or on lisence. Would you also not allow women police officers to work without a male colleague, or female mental health nurses to not work on male wards?

[/ QUOTE ]

A female police officer would not be left alone in a building with a group of rapists.
So i don't see how that is relevant.

Severnmiles. Gartree prison lifers wing was a safe place with him there too. He had total respect.

 

[YorksG]

Two female police officers may well be detailed to respond to a violent incident, or to arrest a rapist. The gender of the workers is not really an issue and does not explain about probation officers sitting on their backsides as you initially suggested they do.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

I have yet to see a probation worker that actually does their job properly. That isnt to say that all are like that, just those that I've known.

Female police officers may well be sent to arrest a rapist. Female officers are issued with various forms of self defence.

Probation hostel workers are not.

A male worker is less likely to get raped in a male hostel than a woman. THAT is where gender somes into it.

 

[YorksG]

Perhaps you have been unfortunate in the probation officers you have seen, or perhaps the job of a probation officer is not always clear. I have to say that I find it odd that you are so dismissive of probation officers and so admiring of a convicted murderer and self professed gangster.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

I don't admire Reggie. I find his crimes were quite horrific, and quite frankly that kind of thing disgusts me. But for one with such 'capability', his behaviour in prison was that of a gentleman. He never bullied or intimidated. he disnt need to as his reputation and fame ensured the other prisoners behaved.

 

[Loopy_laura]

i think they should bring back corpral punishment and hang the evil ********!!!
would save us haveing to pay for there meals!!

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't admire Reggie. I find his crimes were quite horrific, and quite frankly that kind of thing disgusts me. But for one with such 'capability', his behaviour in prison was that of a gentleman. He never bullied or intimidated. he disnt need to as his reputation and fame ensured the other prisoners behaved.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't so much find them horrific, he only hurt those who hurt him or his friends. He wasn't a nutter like Fred West or Ian huntley. And as to the way Jack the Hat went, well that was unfortunate.

He always gave money to the old and to wives and families of inprisoned men. And even whilst in prison him and his twin raised money for charity through high publicity events.

 

[the watcher]

To act as devils advocate for a moment here - if life sentences were extended to full life in most cases, or the death penalty were to be an option (it never will be as European legislation prohibits this) then people would have nothing to lose when committing crimes and may become even more violent to prevent detection and incarceration.

With the current system they have an opportunity to develop skills in prison, to undertake councelling and to a degree to mitigate their sentences. If we take away all hope they will have nothing to lose, either before imprisonment, or after, and therefore no reason to comply with what is available to them

 

[Sooty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He was an absolute gentleman.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a big fan of him! Such a shame he didn't get more than two weeks free before his death. My dad was around that way when they were in their hey day and said the streets were safe (though oddly enough my old boss chased them off of B'ham turf!), people have served far less for random brutal murders and I'm sure Cornell wasn't a great loss (known for torture) and Jack the hat wasn't exactly a loss to the world either!

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought you were of the opinion that he should have been executed? Or is it only a life for a life if the killer is not 'gentlemanly'?

 

[Onyxia]

(qr)
Life SHOULD mean life.I am very much in favor of second chances and giving people the skills they need to be productive members of society after their relase btu some crimes are too horific to let them out.

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought you were of the opinion that he should have been executed? Or is it only a life for a life if the killer is not 'gentlemanly'?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. My views on capital punishment are very complex. Reggie was in the underground world, he wasn't a nutter who attacked any innocent member of the public. He was only dangerous to dangerous people.

 

[Onyxia]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought you were of the opinion that he should have been executed? Or is it only a life for a life if the killer is not 'gentlemanly'?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. My views on capital punishment are very complex. Reggie was in the underground world, he wasn't a nutter who attacked any innocent member of the public. He was only dangerous to dangerous people.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that does make a difference, it shouldnt but to me it does.
The Krays were not a threat to everyone the way say Dennis Nilson was.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Execute the nutters ie those who commit horrific murders and who subsequently show no remorse for their victims and/or the families of those murdered.
It will certainly stop them complaining of being in prison too long BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE DEAD