Muscle Oddness in Wonky Mare

Nasicus

Nasicus

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Disclaimer: This mare is wonky. She came to me from the breeder in August. I'm told they suspect she did the splits with her hinds as a foal, and has been wonky since. She came to me as a companion, she will never be ridden. She's been checked by the vets, and whilst no one's sure exactly what happened, she's confirmed happy, healthy and pain free. We believe it to have been some sort of nerve damage to her hind limbs, as it takes a moment for her hinds to catch up with her fronts when being asked to manoeuvre (such as asking to move the hind quarters). She has actually improved since coming to me, going from often looking like she had double string-halt, to looking more ungainly than anything. She regularly zooms around in all paces, can get down to lie down/roll and get up again without any issues, can move her tail and swish at flies, sometimes I catch her with her tail in full flag mode when she's got the zoomies :D
She's here to enjoy life until such a time that she cannot anymore, at which point she would be PTS. She will never be passed on.

Okay, disclaimer out of the way!
Onto the issue:

Turned up to sort the girls today, and something odd is going on with Wonky Mares back-end muscles. Wasn't like this on Thursday, they were checked for me on Friday as I was working late, nothing reported.
She's moving normally (for her!), usual bright and friendly attitude. Happily guzzled down her bucket and enjoyed 15 minutes of hand grazing. Nothing untoward besides the muscles, which didn't change when walking her around etc ie wasn't just how she was stood.
She's very nearly 5yo, and they're both out 24/7. She came out of winter looking a wee bit ribby, but how you would want them to be going into spring (which is a bit of a novelty to me, as I'm used to fresh-air living fat-arses!)

The only way I can describe it, is that someones gone along and scooped out her muscles on her back end, same on both sides.
(excuse the weird clip thing going on, she had a skin problem over winter that needed clipping to treat)

This one shows the lower 'scoop' quite well:
scoop1.png

And this one shows the upper 'scoop' decently.
scoop2.png

For the sake of completion, here's the other side. Looks the same as the above, just failed to capture it well in the sunlight:

scoop3.png


Here's a shot from behind, you can see the 'scoop' on the right particularly clearly, although red line was added by me for ease of seeing. She is stood slightly downhill and wonkily here, with her head down eating her dinner:

scoop4.png


But wait! There's more!
I took a look under her tail, and not only are her semitendinosus and/or semimembranosus muscles (bum muscles, not gonna lie, I did look the muscle names up) suddenly quite prominent, but her bum appears to be trying to escape inside her body, and is really sucked in! I know I've looked under there before and found nothing of note, and a sucked in bum like that would have certainly been something I would have remembered!

scoop5.pngscoop6.png
(Some weird lumping going on there beside her vulva, will give them a check when I'm back up)

Soooo.... Whilst I have a few ideas tumbling through my brain, I'm wondering what you people are thinking?
Am I perhaps being worried over nothing? It wouldn't surprise me, this global situation has got my anxiety clawing at the edges of my sanity.
Should I have a word with the vet? She's not acting sick or sorry, just... looking weird.

I'll include some more photos below as I've reached the photo limit in one post I think.
 
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Doing some reading around, the sunken anus seems to be either from having babies (which she hasn't and won't be), or from weight-loss.
Is she underweight for this time of year? I'm legitimately concerned she's underweight now. They're not on much grass, but they've got plenty to browse on, hedges to pick through, and they get a net once a day and a hard feed once a day too (Top Spec Light Balancer, Speedibeet, bit of Top Chop Zero, Micronized Linseed, Salt, High Spec Joint Supp, Pro-Mineral and a squirt of Aloe Vera Juice).
I'm honestly not used to owning skinny horses, and I was happy to see one of them showing a bit of rib going into spring, but started giving her a bit more feed and hay regardless. The grass has only just started to grow properly again thanks to a spate of rain this week, and I've got more electric fence posts coming so I can split the end field and get them on it to start grazing.
 
I have no idea re: the muscles - but she definitely isn't underweight, and especially not for this time of year. Although, saying that Jacob has dropped off slightly just now so I have upped his feed for the time being (he has ad-lib hay all day already) so she may be dropping off a little still, or has done recently and that's just one of the things that changes. All horses will lose weight and different signs will show first.

If she isn't showing any signs of being uncomfortable I would be inclined to leave her and just keep an eye.
 
She doesn’t look underweight enough to cause that amount of sinkage but cobs can be quite deceptive but it wouldn’t happen overnight so to speak I’d be worried about something going on internally if it’s come on fast. Maybe worth a call to the vet and send the photos incase she has some sort of myopathy/atrophy issue
 
Abbeys anus did that which corresponded to when she suddenly dropped weight. Vet thought it was due to the weight loss and thought there an underlying condition. We never found what was wrong but she got an injection which perked her up and she started putting weight on again and she gradually returned to normal.
 
Thanks for the replies guys! I'm glad she's not looking like a welfare case, I was a bit concerned I was genuinely missing something in that regard! I have given them both another hay net though, if just to assuage my guilt! But I had a good look around their paddock, and whilst short, there definitely is plenty there for them both to keep everything moving, and they'll be starting on the summer strip grazing hopefully next week if the posts arrive in good time.

I've just been back up again, and I'm pleased to say that whilst still a bit sunken, her sides are looking better, so perhaps I just caught her at a bad time. I am going to continue to monitor her closely though.

Regarding her sunken anus, it would appear that it might well just be the way she's built and I've never noticed it before (I'll take the L on that one!), particularly due to her issues with her hind legs.
I decided to inspect the 'weird lumps' and hey, what do you know! It was poop. In fact, she had a build up of poop and grease all around the edges of her vulva, which wasn't really noticeable until you got right up close, as her bits are the same colour underneath. Suffice to say, I got the wetwipes out, thoroughly cleaned her from bum to boobs and now my hands have that 'udder cheese' smell despite repeated washings and hand sanitiser.
From my reading, mares with sunken anus's can be more prone to infections due to the poop not always landing clear of their bits, so now I know I will need to regularly clean and check her bits going forward (more than you normally would I mean!). Every days a school day as they say!

One thing I did note was a sloppy poop which wasn't there at lunchtime, which I think came from her after looking at her bum. I will keep a very close eye on her, but I suspect that is from the recent change in hay supply. If I find any more sloppy poops tomorrow, I will have a little chat with the vet, as we did have an issue over winter with her and redworms, which was resolved between the vet and I. We did bloodtests too for encysted, but the results weren't really of much use if I'm honest.
 
Is she wearing a rug? if not I would suspect the last few days of cold weather have caused her to tuck up more than normal as she has nothing to keep her back warm, otherwise she does look a bit wormy, big tummy, sunken round the hips so if that has been an issue previously they may not have been cleared as well as expected.
Although it could be just the way she is going with her injury, not being able to move normally will impact on their muscle tone and it could deteriorate more than expected, she may benefit from a physio session and some targeted exercises to improve her or at least keep her stable.
 
I am going to go against the grain here, she looks poor to me and possibly worry.
I think those 2 things combined are maybe asking her muscle issues look more prominent but I would want a bit more weight in her and if she is not in pain I would possibly walk her out in hand to build up some muscle.
I would also have a good chiropractor give her regular treatments after a vet had seen her to double check she has not hurt herself.
 
Thanks for the replies you two! It's been pretty warm here recently, even overnight (averaging 8-9c) to the point where she was sweating in a no-fill turnout. I had previous been rugging due to the lack of hair on top until about a month ago when the hot spell kicked in, but she has in the last week sprouted a proper covering of hair over her back at last.
Worms are seeming to be more of a concern to me, even without your suggestions. It is quite a sudden, dramatic difference, and that is probably going to be my first port of call if I go down the vet route considering the history. It's worth mentioning she was nearly unhanded/feral before she came to me, so her worming history is hazy at best.
In Hand Walking and Chiro/Physio will all have to wait until lockdown is over. My plan this year was to get ridden one established enough to start teaching them to ride and lead with my instructor, so Wonky can get some more exercise beyond what the track in the spring paddock offers, but obviously that's been scuppered.
I will however, look into some in hand exercises we can do so get her strengthening her hind end a bit and start building a tiny bit of muscle. Any particular suggestions? :)
 
I would want more weight on her and that's not something I would usually say.
I'm also just wondering given her type whether she might have some degree of muscle myopathy contributing to the tightness, I'd keep it in mind at this stage and see if with a change of management she improves.
 
ester said:
I would want more weight on her and that's not something I would usually say.
I'm also just wondering given her type whether she might have some degree of muscle myopathy contributing to the tightness, I'd keep it in mind at this stage and see if with a change of management she improves.
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Would you recommend perhaps adding something a bit more fattening to her feed? She gets Speedibeet and Top Spec Lite Balancer as that's what the other one does well on, but I'm certainly not opposed to giving her something different. She won't eat all of a massive feed, never has, she'll leave the rest when she's full. She'd never had a bucket feed before she came to me, and she enjoys them, but just isn't a greedy hippo like my other one. Perhaps increase the micronized linseed?

And regarding myopathy, it certainly did cross my mind, as her bum muscles were very taut and firm when I gave them a prod this evening. Where would I be best starting from to investigate this a bit further? Is it straight to the vet, or is there something I can do? I recall that in PSSM (for example), they often say to start giving them vitamin E and seeing if that makes a difference.
 
I am most definitely not the PSSM expert you can pull hair and genetic test, taking bloods pre and post exercising probably won't be helpful in her case or they take muscle biopsies.
Feeding wise def not my specialist subject!
How much linseed is she getting atm?
 
ester said:
I am most definitely not the PSSM expert you can pull hair and genetic test, taking bloods pre and post exercising probably won't be helpful in her case or they take muscle biopsies.
Feeding wise def not my specialist subject!
How much linseed is she getting atm?
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Ah Interesting! I'm probably going to end up having at least a telephone chitchat with the vet, if not an email conversation, so I'll float the idea past him if he doesn't think worms are the issue.

And food, not much of my specialist subject either! I've always had to feed fatties, not skinnies!
She's getting one 100ml scoop once a day of charnwood mills micronized linseed. I upped it from just a large pinch about 2 weeks ago as I was thinking she could do with the extra fat with the lack of grass (which had barely even grown up until the rain came, so it was pretty much sweet FA across the board.)
 
I've opted to switch Wonkymares chaff from Top Chop Zero to Dengie Alfa-A Oil, and swap out a portion of her speedibeet for soaked grass pellets for the time being, at least until the grass has properly kicked off and grown tall. The Alfa-A Oil seemed like a good choice due to having more protein for muscles, and seems pretty calorie dense for what it is. She happily tucked into her lunch today and polished the lot off. HippoMare was most horrified that she was stuck eating diet food in comparison, until I pointed out that 1. Alfalfa sends her loopy and 2. I don't have to ride the Wonky one.

She looks less hollow today, so perhaps she was tucked up to some degree yesterday. It's been very warm still, I was sweating buckets even when I was up at 7pm this evening.

I've dug up some 3ft electric fence posts, so have given them access to a roughly 15m x 40m area in the summer field in addition to their current paddock. It's by no means the lush, ankle deep grass I'd normally have by now, but it should tide them over until tall posts arrive. Now just to hope the grass keeps them occupied enough to stop HippoMare from bounding over the shorter posts!
Poops are looking better today, still a bit wet but definitely firming up. No signs of worm activity after performing several poop autopsies, but that's not to say there isn't anything. I'll be giving the vet a poke tomorrow just to see what he thinks and if it's worth doing egg counts again perhaps.
 
I guess I'm mostly just keeping this updated as a little log for myself at this point hah!
Wonky is still looking a bit poor, now it's been pointed out to me, I can see it much clearer, so thank you to those who pointed it out.
She's still eating, has been enjoying the extra haynet and additional small evening feed, is otherwise perky and bright.

I did ring the vets in the hope of having a chat with the vet, but they would have to charge a £30 consultation fee, so I opted to Worm Egg Count first, as that would likely be the vets first recommendation anyway, so might as well cross that off the list before getting the vet involved. I figure by the time the kit arrives from the vet, I get the samples, post them back and get the results, it'll have been enough time to see if the change in feed and additional forage has made any difference.

Of course, if she gets worse or her attitude changes in the mean time, I'll get straight on the phone to the vets!
 
Hello! Haven't forgotten this thread!
WonkyMare is looking much better now, my friend I share the yard with very kindly offered me half an acre of grass (one of the middle halves of her figure of 8 track), as her fields were going gangbusters and she didn't need it, especially as we're not making hay this year. So the girls have been slowly strip grazing their way through that, and the grass has done Wonky a world of good! She's putting weight back on, can still see a touch of her ribs, but the dips mentioned on her hips have quickly filled in.
They were both wormcounted, Wonky coming back as 400epg, and Hats coming back as 300epg, so they were wormed with pyrantel as per vets advice, and we've devised a plan going forward.
Hopefully the Physiotherapist will be allowed out soon, so I'll have her out to give the girls a go over and see what she thinks about Wonky in particular.
And I can only hope for some rain soon, as my fields are decidedly un-gangbusters right now!

I shall try to remember to get a nice update photo for you all!
 
Glad to hear it! I bet she's loving the extra grazing, I am desperate for some proper grass to come through but we just haven't had the rain.

Let us know what the physio thinks, should be interesting.
 
Gloi said:
Change of muscle tone and the winter skin infection
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It's funny you say that, as I was musing over what you said about a week ago, and managed to join the dots between the change of condition, the winter skin problems, the slightly potbellied appearance and cushings.

I will certainly float it past the vet when (if!!) he's out in July/August for Vaccs and Teeth.
 
Finally got around to taking an update picture!
Do excuse the feet, Covid & a few other circumstances befell my trimmer so they're quite overdue, but it's all in hand and booked in now.

Overall, much happier with the covering she's got on her now. Her bum has unsunk and the hip hollows are much less noticeable. She's been enjoying her meals, the Alfa-A Oil has given her a lovely shine, and the extra protein has hopefully been helping her muscles a bit. If definitely given her a spring in her wonky step, we've had lots of cantering/galloping around, excited bucks and broncs, and she's just generally loving life at the moment.

They're both back in my field now, on the track, as we finally had rain (and more to come!) so the far field has reached a point where I'm happy to carefully graze it knowing it won't go to bare earth straight away. Anyway, here's a picture from last night, sporting her clipped hinds (suspected mites, clipped, limewashed and all sorted now), I can't get over how tiny her little leggies look clipped haha!
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(Also, if you're reading, Hi Catherine!)


Edit: Oooh this is my 1000th post on this board!
 
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