Muscles like concrete, PSSM?

[AWinter]

I have posted about PSSM before but this is a different case. I’ve been to see a little cob pony for someone this morning as they said he’d started chipping in and wasn’t very forward. His hind quarters felt like concrete and he was very scowly about you even gently touching him there. They said he was seen by a body worker 3 days before and they loosened it all off but it’s come straight back. I have a feeling this is a common thing for the pony as they showed me old videos where they thought he looked fine but I think he looked horribly tight behind. I can’t think what else would be causing this I’ve actually never come across a horse with muscles so tight to touch?

Their vet has never heard of PSSM and I don’t know enough to advise them. Can anybody direct me to a good resource? Is it worth just trying the management, is it feeding a certain type of Vitamin E? I’m not sure how they would go about testing I’m reading the tests aren’t very reliable?

Edited to add they’ve just told me the pony tied up months ago and hasn’t been the same since, so I’m thinking definitely PSSM. Ugh

Thanks again.

 

[Birker2020]

I have posted about PSSM before but this is a different case. I’ve been to see a little cob pony for someone this morning as they said he’d started chipping in and wasn’t very forward. His hind quarters felt like concrete and he was very scowly about you even gently touching him there. They said he was seen by a body worker 3 days before and they loosened it all off but it’s come straight back. I have a feeling this is a common thing for the pony as they showed me old videos where they thought he looked fine but I think he looked horribly tight behind. I can’t think what else would be causing this I’ve actually never come across a horse with muscles so tight to touch?

Their vet has never heard of PSSM and I don’t know enough to advise them. Can anybody direct me to a good resource? Is it worth just trying the management, is it feeding a certain type of Vitamin E? I’m not sure how they would go about testing I’m reading the tests aren’t very reliable?

Thanks again.

all I know is that there are two types of PSSM, I believe PSSM1 can be diagnosed with a hair sample and costs about £40 and PSSM 2 needs to be diganosed with a muscle biopsy.

It was something I half heartedly checked with my current horse although his issues are more than PSSM so it wouldn't have made much difference but I bought some good quality vitamin e kindly recommended to me on here and cut out all sugars that it was possible to cut out at the time. I'd have done a river dance in the nude on London Bridge if I'd thought it would have helped him at that point, and this was a relatively inexpensive experiment. I still feed the vitamin e now but only to use it up.

There are people on here with more knowledge than me, but as my horses symptoms mirrored the many of the symptoms of PSSM including having a low head carriage, not moving forwards with much impulsion, lack of energy, ataxic hind end, initial muscle loss (huge lack of muscle prior to me having him) I thought I'd give it a go.

 

[Fransurrey]

I'd start by advising them to change vet. How can they not have heard about PSSM? Otherwise agree with Birker2020.

@Birker2020 , do you mind me asking what your horse's issues are? Do you mean he has PSSM plus other issues, or issues that made him seem like PSSM? I've just had a full blood panel done on my horse with all the symptoms you list above and all that's come back is slightly elevated inflammatory markers, which could be anything!

 

[Birker2020]

I'd start by advising them to change vet. How can they not have heard about PSSM? Otherwise agree with Birker2020.

@Birker2020 , do you mind me asking what your horse's issues are? Do you mean he has PSSM plus other issues, or issues that made him seem like PSSM? I've just had a full blood panel done on my horse with all the symptoms you list above and all that's come back is slightly elevated inflammatory markers, which could be anything!

Hi FS, his symptoms mirrored the many of the symptoms of PSSM including having a low head carriage (but he does have neck arthritis), not moving forwards with much impulsion, lack of energy, ataxic hind end, initial muscle loss (huge lack of muscle prior to me having him) and I thought I'd nothing to lose by trying to see if it made any difference, but then he went sore again with the rider so she stopped riding him and he had treatment and there was no way of quantifying whether it had really made any difference or not.

To be honest with him, its more likely to be issues with SI that are causing his problems than PSSM but when you are desperate you will try anything.

 

[Dexter]

Lots of vets havent heard about it. I'll post a link to a very good video here. The type 1 test is £30 ish and is worth doing, but with suspected type 1 which is what your looking at, start them on 10,000 ius of just natural vitamin e, magnesium and salt, and cut out as much sugar as you can. Soak hay and only feed low sugar and starch feed.

I saw a difference in mine in 48 hours and within 2 weeks you wouldnt have known it was the same horse, I didnt need to see the test results to know I'd found the issue.

 

[Birker2020]

I mentioned the possibility of it to my vets, but it was kind of dismissed and never spoken of again.

Mind you it was only back 2016/2017 when I had my vet tell me he'd never heard of pinworm so I'm not really surprised, I guess they can't know everything.

 

[SEL]

The only other thing I've come across causing v tight muscles is cushings. From your description thought OP I'd guess PSSM and with a cob I'd start with a type 1 test.

How much grass is the pony on?

Also change the vet. Any cob that has bloods showing signs of a tie up should raise the PSSM red flag. It's not rare!

 

[AWinter]

The only other thing I've come across causing v tight muscles is cushings. From your description thought OP I'd guess PSSM and with a cob I'd start with a type 1 test.

How much grass is the pony on?

Also change the vet. Any cob that has bloods showing signs of a tie up should raise the PSSM red flag. It's not rare!

The pony is on very little grass, I think the owners been really let down they’ve been riding and jumping him in this state and he’s been seen by several body workers who didn’t really flag anything to them, I’m the first person who’s been concerned by it.

They’re going to do the management changes immediately and get the type 1 test.

thanks

 

[AWinter]

Lots of vets havent heard about it. I'll post a link to a very good video here. The type 1 test is £30 ish and is worth doing, but with suspected type 1 which is what your looking at, start them on 10,000 ius of just natural vitamin e, magnesium and salt, and cut out as much sugar as you can. Soak hay and only feed low sugar and starch feed.

I saw a difference in mine in 48 hours and within 2 weeks you wouldnt have known it was the same horse, I didnt need to see the test results to know I'd found the issue.

This is really useful thank you, he’s only about 13hh would you still say to start at 10,000? And do you reduce that once they’re feeling better? What sort of magnesium do you feed?

thanks again.

 

[Tarragon]

I have just watched the video, and that long list of possible symptoms is incredible! So diverse. It was very informative.

 

[Melody Grey]

Sorry to thread jump, but still considering PSSM for one of mine- I really need to get round to testing.

re: the vitamin E- how safe is it to give 10,000 a day? My horse had been on 2,000/ day for about a month which I understand is a normal maintenance dose. Presumably I should up it gradually- over how long and how long for? I understand it’s toxic at the higher doses so obviously don’t want to do harm.

 

[ycbm]

It's safe short term. My vet told me he would be happy to have me test 8,000iu for 3 months. It isn't safe long term if the horse doesn't actually need it.
.

 

[Dexter]

I gave 10,000ius then dropped to 4000ius once we got them stablised and working hard.

 

[Melody Grey]

It's safe short term. My vet told me he would be happy to have me test 8,000iu for 3 months. It isn't safe long term if the horse doesn't actually need it.
.

Thanks- presumably if there’s no discernible difference on the 8,000iu then it’s not needed?

 

[Dexter]

Thanks- presumably if there’s no discernible difference on the 8,000iu then it’s not needed?

For the sake of £30 and pulling some hair out, do the test to be sure.

 

[ycbm]

Thanks- presumably if there’s no discernible difference on the 8,000iu then it’s not needed?

Not at all, horses are very individual in their response. Vitamin E may simply not be enough on its own. For the sake of a simple and cheap test I would always rule out PSSM 1. I did the test on my Appaloosa as soon as I got him because of his breeding. He had no symptoms but I wanted to know.
.

 

[planete]

There is also the possibility that the horse is unable to absorb the form of vitamin E administered. Some horses can only absorb it in liquid form when the vitamin E is water soluble (Nano E for instance).

 

[AntiPuck]

Does anyone have the link to where the PSSM1 testing can be done, please?

 

[BBP]

There is also the possibility that the horse is unable to absorb the form of vitamin E administered. Some horses can only absorb it in liquid form when the vitamin E is water soluble (Nano E for instance).

And even then it may not uptake well. I spent a fortune on Nano E and my horse still blood tested as deficient. He’s now on the synthetic stuff from forgave plus (as I bought the wrong one accidentally) and has shown great physiological improvements, so I will be interested to see what his next blood results are.

 

[Dexter]

Does anyone have the link to where the PSSM1 testing can be done, please?

here

 

[planete]

I am at the moment trialling Lamicore from Equifeast as Woody suddenly started being symptomatic again in the last ten days after a fairly good Spring and Summer. It is a different approach to managing PSSM and there is more information on the Equifeast site. The most reputable research so far seems to have been done by Dr. Varlberg. https://beva.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/evj.13345

 

[AntiPuck]

here

Thank you!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I have posted about PSSM before but this is a different case. I’ve been to see a little cob pony for someone this morning as they said he’d started chipping in and wasn’t very forward. His hind quarters felt like concrete and he was very scowly about you even gently touching him there. They said he was seen by a body worker 3 days before and they loosened it all off but it’s come straight back. I have a feeling this is a common thing for the pony as they showed me old videos where they thought he looked fine but I think he looked horribly tight behind. I can’t think what else would be causing this I’ve actually never come across a horse with muscles so tight to touch?

Their vet has never heard of PSSM and I don’t know enough to advise them. Can anybody direct me to a good resource? Is it worth just trying the management, is it feeding a certain type of Vitamin E? I’m not sure how they would go about testing I’m reading the tests aren’t very reliable?

Edited to add they’ve just told me the pony tied up months ago and hasn’t been the same since, so I’m thinking definitely PSSM. Ugh

Thanks again.

My late mare had Myopathy and her muscles went into a cramp and she was leaking cretinaze. She needed 3 months off and vet care I would call the vet in your position.