Musings on modern horse builds

Foxford

Foxford

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Whilst watching the dressage at Olympia, I couldn't help but noticing that Alf and Blueberry stood out in terms of their build and appearance compared with the other horses. I think there has always been a greater mix of shapes in dressage compared with the other disciplines, e.g. Iberians, warmbloods, thoroughbreds etc. I was interested to know what others thought in terms of the future of the sport I.e. are these kinds of horses merely a throwback and will soon be extinct at the higher levels or will the success of these two individuals lead to a resurgence in that type?

I got thinking along this line due to someone being extremely shocked when I showed them a picture of my hunter type jumping 1m... He is jumping bred so it doesn't surprise me that he can haul his bulk that far off the ground. I guess I was surprised at the prevailing attitude that you need a finer horse for any kind of competition these days.
 
I noticed the same, you also see it in the world of racing as well… Desert Orchid etc were far 'stockier' than the fine types going around today.
My 17.1 ex-SJ is a huge hulk of a horse and it always amazes people he happily competed in 140+ classes in his day, he can cover the ground quickly for a big b*gger as well. Beat my friends 16.1 arab x tb in something that accidentally ended up in a race :D
I do think we will loose the 'alternative' types in competition as they seem to be less consistently good at one particular job. But fingers crossed you will always get some who put the sheep to shame and strut their stuff with the big guns :)
 
Hence the phase 'modern type'. The thing is expectations have changed and horses like Granat and Evrest Apollo would struggle with modern requirements. You still see plenty of heavier horses about, just not doing those top jobs.

Out of curiosity, in which way would you say Valegro and Alf are atypical?
 
I think that horse shapes will always evolve and change - just look at what was competing 30 years ago. It's partly fashion and partly "improvement". There has been a lot of TB blood used in sporthorse breeding over the last 20 or so years resulting in a refining of type and "hotter" horses. I personally prefer a deeper, rounder type but 25 years ago the fashion for very leggy, tall horses started to take over. I also think that Valegro and the other horse (chestnut, sorry not good with names!) were perhaps, ahem, plumper than the others............
 
All 3 Olympic disciplines have changed hugely with what is required now. Even Rembrandt who was a modern type does not have the movement that the modern dressage horses now have.
My feelings are horses have improved hugely even in the last 10 years but what has declined is the bottom of the market due to the influx of gypsy cob blood. They were always around but not to the level they are now. Instead you would see far more ID crosses who were much more athletic. I also think the decline of Arab blood in ponies has been detrimental as always excellent crosses with natives to produce a useful all rounder.
 
Even TBs have changed shape.

My OH had a TB that would be 22 now (died 2 years ago), and most people were suprised to find he was not only full TB but off the track. He was enourmous in every direction, standing over 17h, taking extra full bridles/headcollars and 6ft9 rugs were snug!

I've not seen anything of his stature come through lately!
 
I always loved how 'pony like' Valegro looks - I actually seem to like horses who are a bit deeper & shorter in leg (or more like they don't have legs like stilts!)
Valegro certainly didn't look at all plump when we saw him the week before Olympia (thank you EE!!), amazing to see such a horse stood up in hand up close, he really is everything you'd want in a horse, neat, compact & just packed out with muscle. We saw many a 'non-standard' dressage horse that day though! :)
 
Thanks all, some interesting comments! To Cortez, to answer your question, I think sol put it well. No stilts for legs and generally carrying much more muscular tissue as well as being more compact.

I guess the consensus is that they are throwbacks of an older style of horse. I'd be interested to see Olympia in 2025 to compare back! I do quite like heuschmans theory on front leg movers. I just hope the other types of horse don't get pushed out over time, as correct training is more important than movement.
 
I really would not say Valegro is particularly 'old style'. He may not be as leggy as some but he's quite modern type. If you think back even to the 80s there were still quite a lot of 'lonely without their plough' types in the GP ring - you just don't see them anymore.

Re TBs, Flat horses, especially, have changed a lot. The pressures of yearling sales records, early speed, and surface have changed the breeding emphasis. But to some extent you have to compare like to like. If you go and see good quality horses at stud most are much more substantial than they were in their racing years, even now.
 
I don't know if I'd call them throw backs so much as 'what works'! There will always be 'exceptional' but 'odd' horses (the ones who don't quite look the part, but are competitive) but then, the horses that do have the good basic confo & movement are likely to find life/work easier & therefore go further/longer providing everything else is good for them, no matter their size & shape. The leggy but flashy horses certainly come with their own issues - the CH yard visit I went on was great as he actually explained that he didn't go out & buy those types, as though they looked nice as youngsters they weren't necessarily easier to train or likely to stay sound for long. Every single horse was saw on his yard came into the arena resembling a rather average horse - it was the riding that really transformed them, no matter what shape or size, and they really did vary!
 
Having had Arabians for a lot of years, I would wish that the sport horse breeders would learn from the mistakes made by Arabian breeders over the years. It seems that modern dressage horses are bred for flashy front leg movement, and "uphill" is being taken to extremes.

Horses that look great (flashy) and sell for big money as two or three year olds don't make the grade as adults and are not really what the riders are looking for. Going the same was as the Arabian, the breed becomes a caricature of itself, and what is winning in hand (or making big money at the sales as a yearling) is not suitable for it's supposed end use. Sad.
 
There is an interesting article here about Adelinde's views on current breeding, she's certainly not a fan of where it's heading: http://horsesinternational.com/articles/breeders-talking-adelinde-cornelissen/

And nor, it seems, is Anky: http://horsesinternational.com/articles/adelinde-anky-top-horses-successors/

I suppose that breeders are running a business, and their business is getting the highest possible prices for young horses. Maybe this will mean that we WILL see more 'non-typical' types at GP if the big breeding machines aren't delivering the goods? Top riders and owners may need to start expanding their search away from the usual auctions and studs...
 
^^^^^ that - I knew I had read the article from Adelinde thingy before and it got me thinking of how the Arabians had gone ...

What has generally happened is endurance riders are breeding their own. Easier here than in Europe and the UK I think. Thanks for posting j1ffy, it is thought provoking reading.
 
Most Pros are not buying these flashy leg movers as their next GP prospect, BUT some do buy them to campaign the young horse classes then sell them on, knowing they probably will get possibly Adv Med or PSG max, there is always a wealthy person willing to part with their money for a horse they can't sit to, but at least looks pretty.
 
NZJenny said:
Having had Arabians for a lot of years, I would wish that the sport horse breeders would learn from the mistakes made by Arabian breeders over the years. It seems that modern dressage horses are bred for flashy front leg movement, and "uphill" is being taken to extremes.

Horses that look great (flashy) and sell for big money as two or three year olds don't make the grade as adults and are not really what the riders are looking for. Going the same was as the Arabian, the breed becomes a caricature of itself, and what is winning in hand (or making big money at the sales as a yearling) is not suitable for it's supposed end use. Sad.
Click to expand...

Indeed - I've been saying this for years, that there are unpleasant similarities between the 'sports horse' world and what happened to the Arabian: the glitz and high prices of the auctions, the accompanying pressure being put on the young horses to be more flashy and extravagant, flamboyant action that comes at the expense of soundness, and the resulting high attrition of those young horses... There are clear lessons from history that have not been learned.

This blog makes interesting reading: http://daughterofthewind.org/

And just compare these pics to some of the seahorses that are around today: http://www.flickr.com/photos/daughterofthewind
 
I did wonder if the extravagant paces put strain on the joints - there are whispers about Totilas' soundness, and some of the youngsters that have gone through auction recently were somewhat reminiscent of show-ring German Shepherds...

At least with the dressage horses they still have to perform, it is when an animal is bred purely for showing that things go really wrong. Look at the Halter Arabians and Quarterhorses in the states! Seriously, have a google, it is insane. Again, similar to the pedigree dog issue.

I think people do sometimes go for horses with more talent than they need, someone mentioned that in another post in here. I would love to go out and buy a flashy warmblood, but realistically it would be wasted on me (I can't afford to compete or have lessons much!) and I doubt I'd be able to ride half of it! Even at the lower levels where I compete, it is about 50% warmblood, much less of the irish type you used to see. Good perhaps if you just want to do dressage, but a few of those I would not want to hack out on or take xc!! ;)

That said, I do know a couple of well bred warmbloods (one went for 17k as a youngster) but they are the more old fashioned type (both teenagers now) and more chunky and workmanlike. Hot is the last word you'd use to describe them, and they are both delightful rides and very easy!! You can leave them for a week and then ride, and they will be the same chilled out horse.
 
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