Muzzel for Rotties

[MrsMozartletoe]

Having a thunk about getting muzzles for the Grots.

After years of own land and plenty of space for them to run we now have a more normal life and they need to be walked, only they've not been grand with other dogs for some years, fine with people. They won't attack but they'll definitely do the full velociraptor stance and that worries folk.

I've ordered light up collars and harnesses so we can so we can go out after dark. Just debating with self how to get them to the point they'll be okay to be out during the day as well.

They're both eight and a half years old. Been walked on the halti type in the past.

Thoughts much appreciated.

 

[CorvusCorax]

There's loads of muzzle training videos on YouTube.
I'm assuming it's muzzle and leash, rather than muzzle and off leash? What will the purpose of the muzzle be, just for visuals for other people? As they will probably still gob off with muzzles on and there's a risk they may feel more fearful/restricted. You probably won't change a lot in dogs of that age, if there have been many years of repetition of the same behaviour.

If they are going up on their hind legs, then keep one hand low on the leash near the collar or headcollar, so they physically cannot get off the floor, they theoretically shouldn't be able to rear up (if that is what you mean by velociraptor?) in a headcollar if it is being used properly and you may have even less control on a flat collar (assuming you can't use a muzzle and a headcollar at the same time.
Is it one person walking one dog each, or one person walking two dogs at a time, as that will be difficult to control.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I have to say that I wouldn’t want to encounter a large dog aggressive dog (or even worse, two) in a public place while out walking the JRT (always on lead) whether they were muzzled/on lead or not.

You might believe that they wouldn’t actually do anything, but looking pointy when they are that big is quite bad enough. What happens if an off lead dog bounds up to them?

Secure dog excercise field?

 

[Amy May In A Manger]

I have to say that I wouldn’t want to encounter a large dog aggressive dog (or even worse, two) in a public place while out walking the JRT (always on lead) whether they were muzzled/on lead or not.

You might believe that they wouldn’t actually do anything, but looking pointy when they are that big is quite bad enough. What happens if an off lead dog bounds up to them?

Secure dog excercise field?

Paragraph 2. That's not Mrs M's problem.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Paragraph 2. That's not Mrs M's problem.

Taking large dogs out which look very unfriendly if they see other dogs is Mrs M’s problem.

Members of the public quietly going about their business walking their own dogs don’t need that.

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

There's loads of muzzle training videos on YouTube.
I'm assuming it's muzzle and leash, rather than muzzle and off leash? What will the purpose of the muzzle be, just for visuals for other people? As they will probably still gob off with muzzles on and there's a risk they may feel more fearful/restricted. You probably won't change a lot in dogs of that age, if there have been many years of repetition of the same behaviour.

If they are going up on their hind legs, then keep one hand low on the leash near the collar or headcollar, so they physically cannot get off the floor, they theoretically shouldn't be able to rear up (if that is what you mean by velociraptor?) in a headcollar if it is being used properly and you may have even less control on a flat collar (assuming you can't use a muzzle and a headcollar at the same time.
Is it one person walking one dog each, or one person walking two dogs at a time, as that will be difficult to control.

Thank you for your response.

I should've been clearer, sorry:

One person (me)
Will walk one Grot at a time.
Muzzle - probably for the visual for other folk.
Velociraptor - gaze fixed, neck goes long, body stance sets. I can break it by voice and body.
Used to walk with harness, half-check collar, halti. We lived where lots of dogs were walked.

Back in the beginning I could walk both off lead, to heal, with very good recall. Sit or stand and leave. Call to 'close' and to 'heal'. Then I had to work away and the training slipped, then we bought the land and there was so much space and so many sniffs, and lock down. Before the land purchase they went to kennels for a few days and when back they had a silly level of interest in other dogs.

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

I have to say that I wouldn’t want to encounter a large dog aggressive dog (or even worse, two) in a public place while out walking the JRT (always on lead) whether they were muzzled/on lead or not.

You might believe that they wouldn’t actually do anything, but looking pointy when they are that big is quite bad enough. What happens if an off lead dog bounds up to them?

Secure dog excercise field?

They're not aggressive - they're big and full on and that can scare both people and other dogs. They've never attacked either a dog or a human. Off lead dogs have come up to them (one small one bit one of their tails) and so far nothing bad has happened other than I'm left dealing with a worked up Grot. If an off-lead dog attacked them I expect the Grot would make a racket.

They go to a dog field couple of times most weeks.

 

[Amy May In A Manger]

Taking large dogs out which look very unfriendly if they see other dogs is Mrs M’s problem.

Members of the public quietly going about their business walking their own dogs don’t need that.

Looking unfriendly and being unfriendly are two different things. Provided they are on a leash and under control then there's nothing for any other dog walker to worry about.

I walked on one of my local beaches today, where there were many, many other walkers and their dogs. Many off lead, and many on lead. Large and small. I often encounter large, powerful dogs on the lead. Do I quake in fear? No. I simply give them space and ensure my own dog is also under control as we pass.

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

Taking large dogs out which look very unfriendly if they see other dogs is Mrs M’s problem.

Members of the public quietly going about their business walking their own dogs don’t need that.

There's a number of bigger dogs around here that one could argue look scary. Folk just give them a wide berth if that makes them happier.

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

Paragraph 2. That's not Mrs M's problem.

I agree. They're big dogs but they're not devil dogs. They've never hurt anything, not even the JRT they live with, despite the little one putting a couple of holes in their necks as she likes to swing off their collars, but I know to some folks they can look scary, hence wondering if a muzzle would make then look less so / make people feel more secure.

Maybe I'm just over thinking it all

 

[Amy May In A Manger]

I agree. They're big dogs but they're not devil dogs. They've never hurt anything, not even the JRT they live with, despite the little one putting a couple of holes in their necks as she likes to swing off their collars, but I know to some folks they can look scary, hence wondering if a muzzle would make then look less so / make people feel more secure.

Maybe I'm just over thinking it all

Tbh, I think they'd look more intimidating with a muzzle on. But you have to do what you think is best.

P.s. I adore Rotties, and Daisy's first friend was a beautiful bitch called Molly. Consequently big black dogs are a huge, huge draw for her.

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

So cute!

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Taking large dogs out which look very unfriendly if they see other dogs is Mrs M’s problem.

Members of the public quietly going about their business walking their own dogs don’t need that.

No but they should have their own dogs under control, not allowing them to bound up to bigger (or indeed any) on-lead dogs.
We were always amazed when we had Rottweilers, who actually were the softest dogs ever, how many y people a) asked if their fig8 leads acted like muzzles (no) and b) allowed their off-lead fluffy things to run up to them. They were always on lead when walking locally because their recall wasn't 100% and there are a lot of sheep around here.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I agree. They're big dogs but they're not devil dogs. They've never hurt anything, not even the JRT they live with, despite the little one putting a couple of holes in their necks as she likes to swing off their collars, but I know to some folks they can look scary, hence wondering if a muzzle would make then look less so / make people feel more secure.

Maybe I'm just over thinking it all

Actually I have a friend who was frightened of all dogs until she met our Rotts as pups. She always said that big powerful dogs wearing studded collars with chain leads were far more frightening than ours in their colourful collars/leads, so I doubt that muzzles would help your image.

 

[Beausmate]

People see a big dog in a muzzle and assume it's vicious/aggressive/both. I fostered a greyhound that thought cats were a bit too yummy and was walked in a muzzle, just in case. I had more negative reactions to him than I have ever had with either of my unmuzzled grotts.

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

Actually I have a friend who was frightened of all dogs until she met our Rotts as pups. She always said that big powerful dogs wearing studded collars with chain leads were far more frightening than ours in their colourful collars/leads, so I doubt that muzzles would help your image.

Thank you. Good point indeed. No chain leads etc here. They both need new collars so I'll look for prettier ones - every little helps

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

People see a big dog in a muzzle and assume it's vicious/aggressive/both. I fostered a greyhound that thought cats were a bit too yummy and was walked in a muzzle, just in case. I had more negative reactions to him than I have ever had with either of my unmuzzled grotts.

Good point indeed on the assumption.

Will ditch the muzzle idea.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Good point indeed on the assumption.

Will ditch the muzzle idea.

Look for pink!

 

[CorvusCorax]

Has there been a catalyst that's made you consider a muzzle? My dog is a dear thing but she absolutely is dog aggressive/reactive and there's no point in me saying she's not. I've not considered muzzling her as she's never off leash in public and I have her under control. It also makes her unable to defend herself if something did kick off, although I'd like to think I'd never leave her in that position. She's in kennels quite often but it's never really made a difference one way or the other.

Having the breed I do, I've always been conscious that I don't want other people/dog owners to be intimidated or scared by them so as I say, I don't put either the dog or another person in an uncomfortable position and do whatever I can to make sure the dog is under control, even if that means I have to restrict their freedom a bit and give them other outlets for their energy. I am sure they would love to charge around the place offleash, but very few members of the public want to see that and for me the reputation of the breed is very important.

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

No to a catalyst. I just remember how some folk were when we used to go for walks so wanted to mitigate any angst. As usual I've overthought and tied myself in a knot.

 

[cbmcts]

If you do decide to go the muzzle route, I find that the baskervilles are tolerated fairly well.

I use the classic one on current dog as he has a decent length of nose and his head isn't that wide and it stays on well despite some pawing at it.

With a dog with a block head and shorter muzzle, I find the ultra fits better but you do need to keep an eye on them as they do come off easier IME.

TBH, for control when they jump around and to break staring, a dogmatic headcollar is much more effective especially when you also use your leg to bend them round so you can change direction if they start reacting to stuff. It also means that they don't get the opportunity to practice bad behaviour and wind themselves up. I won't walk any dog over 20kgs without one these days - my joints hurt when I'm pulled around!

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

If you do decide to go the muzzle route, I find that the baskervilles are tolerated fairly well.

I use the classic one on current dog as he has a decent length of nose and his head isn't that wide and it stays on well despite some pawing at it.

With a dog with a block head and shorter muzzle, I find the ultra fits better but you do need to keep an eye on them as they do come off easier IME.

TBH, for control when they jump around and to break staring, a dogmatic headcollar is much more effective especially when you also use your leg to bend them round so you can change direction if they start reacting to stuff. It also means that they don't get the opportunity to practice bad behaviour and wind themselves up. I won't walk any dog over 20kgs without one these days - my joints hurt when I'm pulled around!

Thank you. Interesting re the different fits. Due to their age their heads aren't as block as were.

Will look at the dogmatic headcollars, thank you. I think we still have the Halti ones and yes, use them to bring the head around the leg. I'd do distraction work and have a high value treat for the following good responses.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you. Interesting re the different fits. Due to their age they're heads aren't as block as were.

Will look at the dogmatic headcollars, thank you. I think we still have the Halti ones and yes, use them to bring the head around the leg. I'd do distraction work and have a high value treat for the following good responses.

I haven't used the dogmatic on Rotts but find Halti more effective on the brown Lab. Think trying to walk a very excited dog from carpark to beach, down a sandy, tarmacked ramp and her managing to get the dogmatic off! X2!
I had to quickly grab a spare fig8 lead to be able to control the rush!
Last time we went to the beach we used a Halti and went down the steps. Much more successful altogether - but she is good at steps.

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

I haven't used the dogmatic on Rotts but find Halti more effective on the brown Lab. Think trying to walk a very excited dog from carpark to beach, down a sandy, tarmacked ramp and her managing to get the dogmatic off! X2!
I had to quickly grab a spare fig8 lead to be able to control the rush!
Last time we went to the beach we used a Halti and went down the steps. Much more successful altogether - but she is good at steps.

Interesting. One Grot won't care what I put on him, the other Grot will try and get it off. Will get a dogmatic and see how we go around the garden .

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

Have ordered the Dogmatic for both.

Having thought about it, I recall the Halti would ride up into one Grot's eye, which my reading suggests the Dogmatic doesn't. Fingers are crossed

 

[cbmcts]

The dogmatics are better on a bigger head I find - dainty dogs can duck out of them easier.

Most of the dogs I walk will object initially to any headcollar, sometimes quite dramatically but they very quickly accept them if only because, like a lead the HC means good things like a walk!

What works for me is to keep their head off the ground, two leads, one to the collar, the other on the HC and marching on and fit them quite high on the nose to start with. If they do duck out of it (normally by going backwards so try and avoid that ) I just put it straight back on, rinse and repeat until they give up...

I'm sure you know this already, and it's not such an issue with thickset dogs like rotts but you must not 'pop' a dog sharply/yank their head round hard with a HC as it can damage their neck.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The dogmatics are better on a bigger head I find - dainty dogs can duck out of them easier.

Most of the dogs I walk will object initially to any headcollar, sometimes quite dramatically but they very quickly accept them if only because, like a lead the HC means good things like a walk!

What works for me is to keep their head off the ground, two leads, one to the collar, the other on the HC and marching on and fit them quite high on the nose to start with. If they do duck out of it (normally by going backwards so try and avoid that ) I just put it straight back on, rinse and repeat until they give up...

I'm sure you know this already, and it's not such an issue with thickset dogs like rotts but you must not 'pop' a dog sharply/yank their head round hard with a HC as it can damage their neck.

I know what you mean about Rott heads but I am laughing at the idea that our browm Lab could ever be considered 'dainty"!

She is almost as tall as the Rotts were with longer legs and not such a barrel body, of course her head is smaller, not as square, even as a show-bred Lab BUT one of the clumsiest, most full-on dogs I've ever known.

Eta, we have the 2nd lead on a harness, rather than the collar