Muzzling advice needed... In September!!

Joanna710

Joanna710

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Hello lovelies :)

After taking all the crap I could handle (and then some), I chose to move my horse to a different and far friendlier yard. Perfect in every way, except fatboy ponio is now getting too much grass. When I went to ride today his girth was at it's tightest at two holes below the usual spot, which is disgusting considering he has only been there for 4 days!

So here's my question: Fatty is now muzzled, but I'd like to know if it's more effective to muzzle during the day or at night. I'm thinking day but may be wrong.

Advice greatly appreciated!
 
When best to muzzle depends on what effect you want. Grass has more sugar at dawn and dusk I think - but that is more relevant to muzzleing to prevent Lami; rather than for weight loss. I suppose if he'll tolerate a muzzle and time you can keep it on at all would be a plus - but there has been research to suggest that if you muzzle for only part of the turnout they will stuff themsleves the rest of the time to make up for it - so it might be a bit of an own goal. Could you strip graze him at all?

Assuming you have a native of some description they will all gain weight at this point. It's triggered by the sudden colder weather and is a survival response to get them into winter carrying weight - which ideally they whould then loose over the winter. But my Cob has also ballooned in the last week and I know he doesn't have too much of anything. But I also know him and know that this happens about now. He'll have normalised by mid winter.

If you haven't clipped - or not too much - you could also try leaving his rug off. let him shiver some of the condition off. Sadly my cob is hogged and stripped so not an option for me!
 
Ta for the reply :) In a way it is to prevent lami too, though I know that the grass is now past it's best. He does tolerate a muzzle though I feel bad putting it on, would rather strip graze but that's not an option at new yard... He has access to three huge fields, and is out with 14-15 other horses 24/7. Yard owner and manager say they can't allow us to put up our own fencing as then everyone else will want the same and it'll leave 14 small, individual paddocks all over the fields, with the skinny ex-racer on his own to have what's left. Bit over-dramatic, but that's their reasoning.

I did worry about him stuffing his face, but thought I may be able to trick him by taking muzzle off to ride then turning out without it... So hopefully he'll just go down to graze as normal and not feel the need to hoover :confused:

He's a Friesian, but I guess he's a native-type in a sense. I've not had him long enough to know his usual response to winter/ colder weather... But if he's only ballooned in the past 4 days when he was previously in a small, bare field with a little haylage, my guess is he's eating more because it's there, not as a survival instinct.

He isn't clipped and wasn't rugged up until last night, I caved and put his rainsheet on as the forecast for this morning was/ is horrific! He may go out nekkid tonight, but I'm not a massive fan of having a soggy horse.
 
I muzzle 24/7 - minus a few hours when I ride. I started off just muzzling through the day but he was stuffing his face at night time and defeating the whole point of muzzling during the day.

He isn't overly impressed by the muzzle but isn't depressed and refusing to eat either - he gets plenty through that tiny little hole and has even worked out how to eat the long grass through it too!

I will only consider taking it off once his weight comes down to a safe level.
 
Aaah ok, I had considered muzzling him 24/7 but I hate that he can't groom himself/ other horses with it on.

Will be up to check him in a mo, the only other thing I can do is to ride him into the ground to burn some of it off. I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of it is just gas... Though this is also caused by too much grass!

All horses in his field are overweight at the moment (apart from the tb) so it's obviously not my imagination that he is getting rounder :o
 
I would personally muzzle for the longest period possible, which tends to be overnight. Though grass sugars tend to be higher during the day.

Do you have access to a stable? Ive found muzzling mine every other night and bringing him in every day through summer with just 2 sections of hay (he's 17.2 so thats not a lot for his size!!) great for keeping his tum down.

Please don't underestimate the dangers of autumn grass - particularly after rainfall and with warm daytime temperatures it will be doing mad things!!
 
Yes really!! Grass grows at it's best when it is over 10 degrees and wet... but then it is also high in sugars when it is frosty, so actually the only 'safe' time for grass is in the middle of a really dry summer when it is burnt off...

The other thing to consider is that due to the sheer VOLUME of grass your horse is consuming he will have a lot of sugar to metabolise.
 
Ooh, thanks for that info, have to say it's something I never thought about before. I know spring grass is rich in sugar but but just assumed late grass was safer as it is generally cooler in the autumn months.

I knew that the increase in grass intake (regardless of quality) would mean more sugar, hence the muzzle :P I can cope with a slightly fat horse, but my primary worry was the sugar levels as he had a very resticted diet before I moved him... He has never had lami but can get quite cresty on grass, and I'd rather prepare for the worst than let him tip over the edge. He doesn't wear shoes, so it's easier to feel sensitivity in his soles than if he were shod. So far he's fine, but the quicker I can control his intake the better.
 
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My mare is muzzled during the day and stabled with soaked hay at night. The only reason I don't turn her out at night muzzled is I'd worry if she got caught on something, at least during the day there are people about. I don't turn her out until noon and she's back in her stable at 5 ish.
 
Joanna710 said:
Ooh, thanks for that info, have to say it's something I never thought about before. I know spring grass is rich in sugar but but just assumed late grass was safer as it is generally cooler in the autumn months.

I knew that the increase in grass intake (regardless of quality) would mean more sugar, hence the muzzle :P I can cope with a slightly fat horse, but my primary worry was the sugar levels as he had a very resticted diet before I moved him... He has never had lami but can get quite cresty on grass, and I'd rather prepare for the worst than let him tip over the edge. He doesn't wear shoes, so it's easier to feel sensitivity in his soles than if he were shod. So far he's fine, but the quicker I can control his intake the better.
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Admittedly you might be ok with long grass at the moment if it has gone stalky and dry like hay but I would still err on the side of caution.

My boy sounds similar to yours - is prone to being a bit cresty. and we had a lami scare in the spring - just 48 hours on long lush grass was enough to do it and he wasn't overweight to look at his tum! He went increadibly footy over stony ground, but as you say, being barefoot made it easier to spot... I've had to keep a really close eye on him and adopt the 'be cruel to be kind' frame of mind when it comes to managing him but we seem to be managing :)
 
CBFan said:
Admittedly you might be ok with long grass at the moment if it has gone stalky and dry like hay but I would still err on the side of caution.

My boy sounds similar to yours - is prone to being a bit cresty. and we had a lami scare in the spring - just 48 hours on long lush grass was enough to do it and he wasn't overweight to look at his tum! He went increadibly footy over stony ground, but as you say, being barefoot made it easier to spot... I've had to keep a really close eye on him and adopt the 'be cruel to be kind' frame of mind when it comes to managing him but we seem to be managing :)
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The grass isn't particularly long, however they did take haylage off the fields earlier this year. I'm not sure if that affects the quality, but looking at Fatboy's belly, I'm thinking it doesn't. All I know is it's very green and just long enough for him to nibble through his muzzle. I just wish they could understand the "cruel to be kind mentality", I want to leave it on 24/7 but I think he'll disown me :D

Lotty - I used to do a similar think to you. Stabled from 9 or maybe 10am with a full tiny-hole haylage net, until 5-6pm when he would be turned out on limited grazing. Now I have no stable it's a little harder to manage his munching, just have to try my best :(
 
Well, here's the chap himself, after 24 hours muzzled. Belly has gone back in nicely, I suspect he has completely stuffed his pants with grass over the past few days, so there was plenty of gas built up too (unfortunately he always chooses to release it in front of passing admirers :P)

He has a good covering over all, so I'm happy for now. Will maybe muzzle him every 2-3 days just to give his guts time to work through the backlog... The term "greedy as a horse" comes to mind!

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(I know he could do with losing a bit more, but this is much better compared to the belly he had on yesterday!!)
 
I think he looks great. Could lose a little but I wouldn't say he looks like a worry. Hard to tell from a picture sometimes. I have also moved yards this week and am having exactly the same problem. She has a sensitive stomach so I am upping her time on the grass (even in a muzzle) gradually to try and limit the shock to the system. I was saying yesterday how I would love to have a horse who I can throw in a field to eat as much as it likes, didn't have to soak hay cause of her ability to cough at a single speck of dust but then I realised I have it the other way around. Under saddle she is as safe as houses so that's where I get the easy life! Good luck with him, he is beautiful! X
 
He doesn't look as bad as I had imagined - very much like mine in fact!

I do really thing that Muzzling every few days / every other day is the way to go... also using the winter weather to get a little weight off before spring will stand you in a better position for tackling next year... ;)
 
Billie1007 said:
I think he looks great. Could lose a little but I wouldn't say he looks like a worry. Hard to tell from a picture sometimes. I have also moved yards this week and am having exactly the same problem. She has a sensitive stomach so I am upping her time on the grass (even in a muzzle) gradually to try and limit the shock to the system. I was saying yesterday how I would love to have a horse who I can throw in a field to eat as much as it likes, didn't have to soak hay cause of her ability to cough at a single speck of dust but then I realised I have it the other way around. Under saddle she is as safe as houses so that's where I get the easy life! Good luck with him, he is beautiful! X
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Hehe, thanks. Luckily I don't have any "before" shots of his tum, you may not be saying the same then! He does have little fat pads on his shoulders which you can't really see in the picture, and he has the most fantastic apple bottom (from an aesthetic point of view... I just want to pinch it!)... Lots of hacking and tromping about the woods to try and burn off the extra lard stores. Although as many people have said, he does need to hold onto some padding to get him through winter. Oh that sounds terribly familiar, when I first bought him in April I was so shocked that I actually owned a real-life horse, I just turned him out in the first empty field I could find. Cue two weeks of the most horrendous skits, even though I moved him into a little skinny-pony paddock on his third day! Oh to have a thoroughbred that can eat it's weight in grass and still look like a racing snake. But I wouldn't, can't cope with the twiggy legs! To be honest I don't mind agonising over his feed, weight, feet, appearance... I wouldn't have horses if I couldn't cope with the management side of things!

CBFan said:
He doesn't look as bad as I had imagined - very much like mine in fact!

I do really thing that Muzzling every few days / every other day is the way to go... also using the winter weather to get a little weight off before spring will stand you in a better position for tackling next year... ;)
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Oh that's a relief, though I think may have exaggerated a tiny bit! The belly has shrunk considerably though, he had almost no "waist" yesterday, felt embarrassed riding him out, especially in front of the people who saw me unloading him on Wednesday... He was lovely and slim then ;)

He will stay in a lightweight, no-fill rug until the time comes when I can't bring him in from the field without a snowmobile. He's a tough boy and has all of the ingredients in his feed to make a lovely wooly winter coat. The rug is more for me than him, plus I like to keep the wind off when the weather is nuts outside.
 
Well it's better to err on the side of caution and exagerate a bit than to underestimate how fat they are... it's much easier to keep the weight off than it is to get the weight off ;)

This is my boy back in july... I've been muzzling him every other day for the last month or so as injury meant he had some time off and his belly quickly (within days!) grew....

StarskyJuly2012003.jpg
 
Oh he looks fantastic in that picture! See personally I'd say he was a perfect weight, and looks in really good condition. Whatever you're feeding him on top of the grass is obviously doing wonders for his coat. My boy had a waistline like this less than a week ago, now it's definitely softer around the edges :P
 
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My girl is ut furing the day and muzzled but when she comes in she is so greedy, she doesn't take a breath until her hay has gone :eek::D She's not lost any weight but she's not put any on either :)

If she was out 24/7 she'd be muzzled 24/7. I'd muzzle her in stable if it was safe.
 
Joanna710 said:
Oh he looks fantastic in that picture! See personally I'd say he was a perfect weight, and looks in really good condition. Whatever you're feeding him on top of the grass is obviously doing wonders for his coat. My boy had a waistline like this less than a week ago, now it's definitely softer around the edges :P
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He gets a mug full of micronised linseed a day with his bespoke minerals added and then 2-3 sections of hay when in... that is it... But this is what I mean... he does look slim in this pic but in order to keep him that way, I have to muzzle every other day and or keep on top of his workload or he quickly balloons...
 
Tiffany said:
My girl is ut furing the day and muzzled but when she comes in she is so greedy, she doesn't take a breath until her hay has gone :eek::D She's not lost any weight but she's not put any on either :)

If she was out 24/7 she'd be muzzled 24/7. I'd muzzle her in stable if it was safe.
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Yes, my boy scoffs more when in after he has been muzzled, and I do give him half a section or so more than normal but otherwise once it's gone, it's gone!! There is always some left in the net so he can't be that hungry!!
 
Aaah, good stuff... My boy is on about a 1/2 mug of linseed with some fast fibre to mix and chopped hay to make it interesting... In the process of ordering some fancy mineral mix from Forageplus so the other minerals I'm using will be officially redundant soon :P

You should be proud of him, my horse does shine normally but he's inbetween coats at the moment... Have to say, he's never been as shiny as your boy!

Have to pay for haynets at new place so Otto justs gets an extra mug of fast fibre if he's been muzzled that day... Hopefully to fill him up.
 
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