My aggressive horse

[Wimbles]

I have owned my horse for approx 9 years. He is extremely aggressive on the ground, something I was fully aware when I purchased him. I've known some nasty horses but he really is something else. He doesn't have a flight reflex, instead he stands and fights. For example the other week we had attached some new rubber matting to the walls of his stable as he likes to boot the hell out of the walls if something isn't to his liking! Anyway, my OH had forgotten to take the screw ends off from the other side of the matting which were poking through into one of my other horses' stables. We took that horse out and he got the angle grinder out to nip them off. It was quite noisy and there was a lot of vibrating but the horse outside was fine but the aggressive horse just tried to batter the wall where the noise and vibration was coming from. It probably doesn't sound like a big thing but this really isn't normal horse behaviour.

He's been a fantastic ridden horse for me in so many disciplines and has taken me to some amazing places.

I handle him very carefully and we just about rub along but this morning whilst walking him down to the field down the long, dark muddy track he tripped on some of the debris on the track and stumbled to his knees dragging me down with him. I fell into him, not hard but this obviously angered him and he jumped up and bit me on my back. He hit me so hard that it winded me and for the first time in ages it actually really frightened me as it was so early int he morning and I was down at the yard alone. He managed to draw blood through 3 layers of clothing so it wasn't just a nip.

I'm not sure why I'm posting it (probably 'cause I'm feeling a bit down and sorry for myself) but I feel bad that occasionally I feel like calling it a day with him and today is one such time. I would never sell him on as he would be lethal in the wrong hands but I guess I'm just tired of it.

He also has terrible feet and has to have the farrier weekly. I have to keep him shod to work him which is such a shame as some of my others do so well without shoes. He's currently made such a mess of his foot that it's basically glued together and is unsound and not being worked which makes him even angrier as he lives to work. Contemplating taking the shoes off and giving up on him for a bit.

Tell me it will get better!!??

 

[JadeyB]

Wow, he sounds like a handful! I've known a few aggressive horses but generally there were triggers that set them off. Is he like this with other horses too?

 

[Wimbles]

No, he's completely fine with other horses. Really is the oddest horse that I have ever come across!

Edited to add that he has been basically like this from day one. They had to watch him as a foal. He's by a notorious stallion renowned for producing bad tempered individuals. I once read a comment on an American forum where someone had been offered one of his half brothers. Said it has movement and looks to die for and a temperament to help you do it!!

 

[be positive]

He certainly does not sound "normal" but you don't make any mention of what you have tried to address it or find out why he is so aggressive, I must start by stating the obvious have you had him thoroughly checked out to ensure he is not in constant low grade pain, it may not be enough to effect his work but enough that he feels constantly under stress and something such as tripping over makes the pain worse so he lashes out at whoever is nearest.
The fact his feet are so bad he is needing shoes put on weekly suggests an issue somewhere as a really healthy horse should have good feet so I would look at his diet as a priority, it may be something can be changed and at least that problem can be sorted, I have known a few nasty horses but having dealt with hundreds over the years the bad ones can be counted on one hand and one or two of those came good once they had changes made to their management.

However good they are to ride I don't think I would want to deal with a truly aggressive horse on a daily basis.

 

[fatpiggy]

Interesting about the stallion. I do think genetics have a lot to do with it. We had two accidental foals born on my old yard, almost certainly by the same stallion. Mum no.1 was an arab pony, prone to hysterics, over sensitivity - filly foal was the image in every way. Mum no.2 was a chestnut pony, possibly Forrester but bolshy, bossy, sometimes sneaky and although not really nasty, could easily dominate humans and knew it - foal was born and within hours had started target practice on her mother. I rode her a bit when she was broken in and yes she was bolshy, stubborn, sometimes sneaky... We also had a part bred CB on the yard who could be as nice as pie, but could also strike like a snake with his teeth, was cold-backed to mount, sometimes wouldn't go in or out of his stable. He was fine with me and we got on well generally , but he severely bit another person and she had to have plastic surgery. His owner said he was out of bad blood. The worst I ever met was only 4 years old and could kick with such deadly accuracy that Bruce Lee would have been jealous. Goodness knows what had happened in his past for him to be that bad. I doubt he made old bones because he really was dangerous to handle and I can't see anyone putting up with him.

 

[Clare85]

He sounds a real handful. I would agree with be positive that it sounds like he could be in pain, with the most likely cause being his feet. What sort of veterinary intervention have you had?

Could I ask whether you have tried turning him out 24/7? I ask because my old share horse was deemed as dangerous. When his owner bought him, he was kept tied to a ball and chain at the back of his stable as he would attack anyone who went in or even walked past. He was kept in 24/7 as he would field jump. He was a cracking ride but was due to be pts as they felt they couldn't sell him on with his temperament. My friend persuaded them to sell him to her, she put him straight out in the field permanently. Over the following few weeks she found him all over the place as he kept escaping, but once he realised he wasn't coming in he settled and stopped his antics. He became a lamb to handle, I stated riding him when I was an inexperienced 11 year old and he took me through pony club, to camp and everything.

 

[Wimbles]

Sorry that wasn't helpful of me. He's always been kept up to date with all the usual physio, saddle, back checks, although one physio appointment required three doses of sedation (sigh). He's had pain relief trials, x-rays of his back and hocks, scopes for ulcers and although they didn't find anything he was put on a course of gastroguard. I really have tried pretty much all that I can. He's on a barefoot diet the same as the others that do not wear shoes. His main feet issues are that he has a massive hind leg action and whilst that's marvelous in a dressage arena, if there's any type of mud that delays his front foot coming up or if he acts the goat which he does daily messing about with the others in the field then off pops his shoe! The only feed reaction we ever had with him was from alfalfa but he's on a no cereal/sugar free diet anyway. When we had an MRI done of his feet I was convinced that it would show up something but all was good. My vet and the specialists he has seen really do not believe that it is pain related and neither do I. I hope that doesn't sound like I'm trying to poo poo your helpful suggestions :/

He has definitely improved over the years with alterations being made in making sure that he has plenty of turnout (we've tried letting him live out) but he never really changes. Having him just wears me down sometimes.

 

[Annagain]

I'm not surprised. No suggestions just a hug. This is one of the few times horses are not better than men. If he was your OH you could just chuck him out.

 

[Wimbles]

If he was my OH he'd be under the patio with the last one

 

[Merlod]

Just curious, has he ever been really stood up to? It sounds as if when he boots the stable wall or bites you his bad behaviour is ignored..

 

[madlady]

OP all of us who have (or have had) tricky horses all have days where we wonder why we are doing it because the rewards sometimes don't meet the effort you put in. Sounds like you are having one of those days because he's been a bit of a monster.

You have nothing to feel guilty about - you have persevered with him for 9 years and given him the best life you can in spite of his 'special' tendencies. What would have happened to him otherwise - shot or passed from pillar to post getting progressively worse until..........

Ask your farrier about turning him away for a month or so and what is best to do re his feet for that time and then give yourself a break

I've only ever dealt with a couple of demon horses - 1 was a demon for everyone but me - wouldn't even let people in the stable but I could do anything with him for some strange reason. The other never got through the backing process - he was shot as not only was he a nightmare to handle he then proved to be dangerous under saddle - he would put you on the floor and then come at you with teeth and feet. I don't know if I could cope dealing with one on a daily basis for 9 years.

 

[Merrymoles]

I feel for you OP. Mine bites but more in a coltish way than a really aggressive way but boy does it hurt! He too, is far better when working than not and we have been able to work quite successfully on the biting so I am not in the same situation as you.

It sounds like you are doing everything you can to get to the bottom of any problem that is causing his aggression and are generally managing it well so I hope you can turn the corner.

I don't know if it would be suitable for what you do with him but is it worth trying the winter in hoof boots so that you can keep him in some sort of work and let his feet recover a bit? Might be completely impractical but just a thought. The other thing would be if you could take him somewhere with a good rubber surface frequently so that he can still work but without shoes on?

 

[Wimbles]

Just curious, has he ever been really stood up to? It sounds as if when he boots the stable wall or bites you his bad behaviour is ignored..

Oh yes, I'm not soft with him, you can't be as he'll keep coming, but I have found over the years that his usual daily grumbles are better if they're ignored to some extent as he loves getting you involved in a fight!

He's a smart cookie which makes him more dangerous. Some of the stuff he does defies belief! He will try to get things stuck round his legs and stuff so that someone will come and try and sort it out and then he can have them!

 

[Merlod]

Oh yes, I'm not soft with him, you can't be as he'll keep coming, but I have found over the years that his usual daily grumbles are better if they're ignored to some extent as he loves getting you involved in a fight!

He's a smart cookie which makes him more dangerous. Some of the stuff he does defies belief! He will try to get things stuck round his legs and stuff so that someone will come and try and sort it out and then he can have them!

Oh dear, he sounds quite the handful! I've had some ones with dominance issues but never total aggression. My sisters newest was a horrid kicker, went for her in the field about an inch away from her face. Needless to say I gave the thing a belting and now he knows who's in charge he's much better for it. Sometimes they need putting in their place but probably not ideal for you to pick a fight you might not win as it might make things worse!

My own horse is quite the opposite to yours - strong flight instinct. Anything he deems frightening = run first, look later! I have worked on distraction in the form of a wait command, he knows the cue to stand stock still and after however long I decide will treat him. It makes him positively focus on me, and forget whatever he was pratting at because food seems to trump fear for him! It may be something that could work for you, e.g you fall over, cue him to wait and it turns into a positive thing?

 

[smja]

I hear you on the shoe front - my horse used to do this (v short coupled, no hind leg to write home about!). Farrier ended up shortening back toes and slightly under-running heels at the front. Damage he did pulling shoes off was greater than dangers of less heel support.

When we looked for a horse for my sister, we saw one that seemed ok...until we saw his real name on his passport and realised that this was the horse that had purposefully put a friend in the hospital as a foal. All his siblings were the same way, too. I definitely believe that nurture cannot overcome nature in some cases. My sympathies, OP - I realise that's not overly helpful though

 

[JadeyB]

I bet you need a huge glass of wine after a bad day with him! It doesn't sound much like he'll ever change, i guess all you can do is manage him as best and safely as you can. I think horses are like people, some of them are just not nice and there's not much you can do to change them.

I shared a mare once who didn't like adults, being tacked or rugged up and if you wore pink around her you'd leave with an injury! you were safer on her than on the ground but if she decided she didn't want to work there was no getting her to do it! Strangely i ended up loving her to bits because she was such a madam. I've also known a couple of very rude geldings, one we affectionately called the '****head', he wasn't even nice to other horses and loved a good fight when you decided to try to put him in his place. They were all very talented horses tho so you just ended up putting up with their issues!

Good luck, stay strong (and most importantly safe), and always watch your back! That type always make you appreciate the nice 'people' so much more

 

[jhoward]

Oh yes, I'm not soft with him, you can't be as he'll keep coming, but I have found over the years that his usual daily grumbles are better if they're ignored to some extent as he loves getting you involved in a fight!

He's a smart cookie which makes him more dangerous. Some of the stuff he does defies belief! He will try to get things stuck round his legs and stuff so that someone will come and try and sort it out and then he can have them!

I shouldn't of chuckled but that reminded me of a mare I had that trapped someone in a stable after acting sweetness and light, mare was so bad mate was about to call for a ladder to get out when she made a dash for it, many stories to tell about said mare who really was savage, to the point people asked how I got in the stable with her.
I loved her and wasn't scared of her..that was Hal the battle won.. She was the same with other horses and riding her could also be as bad as she reared,bucked,lept and would happily flatten another horse when u was on her.

 

[FfionWinnie]

I knew a horse like this when I was about 15. He was an ID and we called him Gnasher. The two things he did were to get away as you approached the gate and he would bite anyone near the stable as well as kick hell out of it while he was in it. I used to tie him to a ring at the back when we were there for peace and safety but getting him untied wasn't easy either.

To ride he was a slug unless you pointed him at a fence and that really was all he enjoyed. He would jump absolutely anything.

Ultimately he picked up someone's granny by the shoulder and threw her across the yard, very badly breaking her arm. The granddaughter I think thought until that point I was cruel keeping him tied at the back of the stable!

Not sure what happened to him ultimately. He'll be dead of old age by now if he wasn't shot for injuring someone.

Really you have to balance up how much enjoyment you get out of him compared to how dangerous he is. If you have more bad days than good days, I would be making a hard decision I think.

What breed is he, out of interest?

 

[Wimbles]

Thoroughbred out of Storm Cat

Some of my favourite "bits" that I have picked up from the net over the years about Storm Cat offspring are here;

Then there’s Storm Cat, whose father Storm Bird, unusually for a son of Northern Dancer, was a bad tempered old ****** who passed his quirks on, to the degree that several of Storm Cat’s sons are not only on the “hot” side in general, but prone to self-emasculation. There are several cases of this in the States, while Mary Slack will tell you that Tiger Ridge will turn on himself occasionally, too.

The second horse that Crestwood landed was Storm Boot, a mean and deceptively fast chestnut colt from Storm Cat's first crop. He's a pure sprinter, short, bulky, nearly bandy-legged with muscle. He has Mike Tyson's build, and his temperament, too, and he has the bad habit of picking up grooms by his teeth ± grabbing them by the leg or the pectoral muscle -then dropping them somewhere else more to his liking.

the only Storm Cat son I ever worked with was an absolute ox of a horse. He hurt several people just by having no sense of self preservation whatsoever. He would fall down, flip over, run you over, run over a stack of straw bales, etc etc. He was a tank! He'd be very quiet in the stall and then on random occasions would attack his groom.

Some love the athleticism of the Storm Cat line, while others have found the family's temperament tough to take.

STORM BIRD- i was at ashford this past november and heardthe horror stories about him. groom told me that one day, he went into the farm managers pffice and said"im going home, because if i dont, one of us, is going to end up dead"..referring to SB

I work as an Equine Midwife with TB's. I can tell you that even newborn foals can have an attitude. All the foals were handled from birth. Some were just very high strung, with attitudes. I found the STORM CAT related horses to be some of the worse.

I am surprised that STORM CAT did not make the list. I did not know the stallion personally but I worked with many of his offspring who were hard to deal with from birth. Foals were born with attitude. They were raised right and treated well, I know this as I worked with the mares and foals. I was told they get the temperament from Storm Cat. If I ever see a new "Cat" come to the farm I will use caution until I know the horse for itself.

Storm Cats aren't exactly loved for their warm and cuddly personalities - I think Tabasco Cat was the one who ran over D Wayne Lukas' son and nearly killed him.
Was once offered a Storm Cat son, 4 year old gelding, for free, had been a high priced yearling and quite fancy I was told. Went so far as to call somebody at the track (Beulah or up by Cleveland someplace, been a few years ago now-like 8 or 10) to go take a look and ask around.

Yep, fancy for sure and movement to die for they said...and the disposition to help you do it. I passed.

 

[Orangehorse]

Eek, if he bit through 3 layers of clothing he really meant it then. No wonder you are feeling fed up. It seems that you are doing everything for him possible, and as you say, he is good when ridden. Odd isn't it? The only remotely aggressive horse that I have had to deal with - and not anywhere near as bad as this - was a mare which was also a wonderful ridden horse. She was a misery with people and other horses too and would get into all sorts of fights with others. I knew a bit of her history, she had been ill as a foal, and I guess she just got utterley fed up with having needles stuck in her and generaly veterinary intervention, so it was kick first and ask questions afterwards.

In your horse's case, I agree that there are known stallions that throw bad tempered animals. In the USA they actually encourage some of the TB racing stallions to be nasty as they think that gives them the winning edge. What happens to the foals that don't make it, no one says.

OP, can you put a muzzle on your horse if you think he is likely to bite? Not a nice solution, but it would keep you safer, and knowing he can't hurt you would make you much more confident with them as well. Although you sound to be doing a good job anyway.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

yes, Stormcat and offspring had/have a bit of a rep. I think (very rarely) that it can be genetic-I know we had some problems with Kris fillies back in the day and whenever I've mentioned that on here, I get people agreeing with me.

No suggestions but vibes for the bite. I was once picked up by the shoulder by a large ID cross (mare) and I still have the scar 30 years later and that was through several layers, it really hurts.! She also would back into people and horses when ridden, gave one girl a nasty broken leg. Who knows what her issue was. Then again I was groom for a huge DWB back in the 80s that had a reputation-I could do anything with him but his owner could hardly go in the box with him.

 

[Orca]

I'm not sure why I'm posting it (probably 'cause I'm feeling a bit down and sorry for myself) but I feel bad that occasionally I feel like calling it a day with him and today is one such time. I would never sell him on as he would be lethal in the wrong hands but I guess I'm just tired of it.

...Tell me it will get better!!??

If it's 'in the blood' then there's only so much you can do and it sounds like you've done well to keep yourself reasonably safe so far. Is he worth the risk? Harsh question but you and your safety have to be your number one priority. There's no need to feel bad about not always wanting to have to be so switched on/ at risk/ injured. Sometimes, just to be able to enjoy a horse is absolute bliss! ... And I honestly believe that for the most part it really should be enjoyable. Challenges and difficulties which can be overcome are one thing - daily and potentially dangerous battles are another thing entirely.

I've heard people say there's no such thing as an inherently 'bad horse' but I've known two. The stories of their antics are almost amusing in hindsight but they aren't amusing at the time and real meanies can be very dangerous creatures to handle. Massive respect to you for sticking with him this far but please don't feel bad if or when you do come to the end of the line with him. Every day he's had with you has been one more than he would have had with many.

 

[Wimbles]

He was muzzled previously but I find that most of the time he's better without anything as when muzzled he likes to try out his other moves (kicking and pinning you). We don't have many big incidents like this but I guess I'm feeling a bit weak at the moment as I've been battling pneumonia for the past 12 weeks and sorting out the other horses has been hard enough but with him as well it just was too much today and I got to thinking that life would be a lot easier without him.

We always laugh at how good he is with the vet, as if he knows that they've got the drugs to follow up my threats!

He is a fabulous horse to ride, I literally cannot praise him enough. Pretty much anyone can ride him and he turns his hoof to anything with such relish! I just hate to think of him being so angry all of the time :/

The only times he's ever any different is if he ends up on his own somewhere new with just me. He then completely depends on me and is pretty OK and on the few times over the years when he's been really ill he actually looks to me for help.

 

[Wagtail]

It does sound like it is a temperament thing. I don't tolerate aggressive horses. If all physical and management checks have been done, I would PTS. Can you imagine if it had been your face he made contact with?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Oh jeebers! A Storm Cat! Their reputation precedes them! I am sorry he is so angry about life but he does sound like one of the more bidable Storm Cats! I have heard plenty of tales of them though have never had the pleasure of dealing with one myself.

I hope you pick up soon and get back to what ever kind of normality you have come to accept with this lad.

 

[A1fie]

I worked briefly with an offspring of Storm Cat at a racing yard and he was not to be trusted at all. He ended up being pts as he was turning himself inside out on box rest. Hugs Wibble. Really difficult when you love them.

 

[DabDab]

Oh poor you, it really breaks your heart when life with a horse is a daily battle, especially if they are amazing to ride. You find yourself constantly thinking 'if only...'

I've met two purely aggressive (i.e. behaviour could be put down to nothing else) horses. The second I had only known a month or so when he got hold of one of the grooms with her back against a wall, bit onto her shoulder and repeatedly banged her against the wall. Hearing screams, another groom and I came round the corner, at which point he dropped her and she fell to the floor like a rag doll. I'm not ashamed to say that in the adrenaline of the moment I gave him one hell of a beating. After that he was generally fine with me.

A few months later I backed him, and he was the most wonderful horse to ride - would load himself onto a lorry from day one, jumped anything you pointed him at, schooling work was exemplary, excellent to hack..... But he would still have his episodes from time to time, and nobody but me and eventually my boss, ever went in his stable or turned him out.

There was also a tie up post at the side of that yard that he spent many an hour tied up short to with no food or stimulation, because sometimes, quite frankly, I couldn't be bothered to have the argument and I needed an hour or so to regain my emotional energy to deal with him. When I first started doing that he used to get very angry, to the point of fighting the post, but after I'd done it a few times I started to find him in a more compliant mood when I went back than the one I'd left him in.

He was pts 5 years later following a similar incident to the groom against the wall. As much as I loved that horse, in hindsight, he probably should have been put down 5 years earlier.

 

[MagicMelon]

Have you tried different routines? What about turning him out 24/7, I know one of mine gets grumpy and more "nippy" if he's stabled at all. He turns into a bit of a raging bull so he lives out and he's a very chilled out horse. Personally, I think I'd chuck the horse out full time unshod with a herd of other horses to just be a horse for a bit. If you're not riding him anyway then why not. At least he'd be getting exercise and mental stimulation being out which will help if he's peed off not being worked. Have you tried getting him checked for ulcers etc.? Tried various calming supplements?

 

[planete]

Do you wear a riding helmet when you handle him? If he ever connected with your head when he is swinging his round to bite he could fracture your skull. Please wear a helmet. Being hit in the head by a horse' s head is no joke, it is like a sledge hammer (as you found out when he hit your back). I have had to handle dangerous horses as a groom but I would not do so by choice. If you were my daughter, I would be beside myself if I knew you had such a horse.