My baby casted :((

Groom Mum

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Tonight my youngster was really excited and rushed into his shelter as it had new shavings and he wanted to roll, I was bringing my other boy in and hear a lot of banging on side of the shelter which i thought was just him rubbing against the kick boards.
When i came back to the shelter he was on the floor with his head outside the shelter trying to get up. I freaked out as he just couldn't get up, it was really upsetting. I tried to push him and pull his legs but he just couldn't get up and he just lay there still, it was the most upsetting thing to see. Finally after what seemed like a lifetime (about 3 mins) he wriggled and found a way and got up. Poor baby was so shaky afterwards but very son recovered when dinner came.

I would like some advice as to how to prevent it happening again. I know its not possible to stop it but is there anything I can do to minimise it. I made the banks higher in his shelter but i was told maybe i should build them two feet high and two feet deep. The vet thought it would be a good idea to keep a lunge rein handy and if it happens again tie his legs and drag him around so he can have space to get up. I hve never seen this happen before and i keep reliving it in my mind. Sorry for being a woose but i was alone and didn't know what to do
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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I always have a lunge line handy, loop it round the far side hind leg [usually] and flip towards you. I have never had to actually pull one round. Just keep well back when you pull on the lunge rein, it is just to get them away from the wall.
Wear a hat.
He may not do it again as he got a fright.
Banks need to be a foot wide and solid to work.
If they are jammed tight against the wall on their side and 4 feet scrabbling, and you cant flip them over towards you, then you may have to pull physically, but in that case I would put a headcollar on and try to pull them towards you.
 
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crabbymare

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most of the time if they get cast they do sort themselves out especially in a shelter where thet have more room. you could try putting a strip of wood round so that he can have something to push against or buy this sort of thing http://www.americasacres.com/up-right-anti-cast-safety-strip/ which may be safet than you trying to flip him over if you do not know what you are doing since its easy enough to do but better to have someone with you the first time especially if you are feeling panicy and of course by the time you go and find a hat gloves and rope they are normally up and looking totally innocent wanting food :)
 

Groom Mum

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most of the time if they get cast they do sort themselves out especially in a shelter where thet have more room. you could try putting a strip of wood round so that he can have something to push against or buy this sort of thing http://www.americasacres.com/up-right-anti-cast-safety-strip/ which may be safet than you trying to flip him over if you do not know what you are doing since its easy enough to do but better to have someone with you the first time especially if you are feeling panicy and of course by the time you go and find a hat gloves and rope they are normally up and looking totally innocent wanting food :)

Thanks. I'm going to pack those banks bigger. I thought they were ok but obviously they weren't. He has been watching my other boy from the outside. I think he's a bit scared to go back in to the nasty place !! It was more traumatic for me as once he did get up he was looking for his dinner. I've had it flashing up in my head ever since !! I'm hoping he won't do it again but I'm gonna try to minimise it happening any way I can in future. Flipping horses. Be the death of me !!!
 

JanetGeorge

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I have to say, I won't have banks in my stables - they just encourage horses to roll closer to the wall! It takes real idiot horse to roll over when there's nothing to tempt him - I have 26 stabled at present and it's VERY rare for one to get cast with a level bed. Last one was about 15 months ago (and he was a big HW with slow learning capabilities, lol.) He was hard to get up - but he hasn't done it since.
 

Nicnac

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Get rid of the banks - more room to move! I don't bank any stables and can't understand why people do. Never had a horse cast either I've lived in a number of countries and have only ever seen banks here. Could understand if sub-zero temperatures, draughty stables with concrete floors but many places with banks are indoor stables with rubber matting!
 

Groom Mum

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Get rid of the banks - more room to move! I don't bank any stables and can't understand why people do. Never had a horse cast either I've lived in a number of countries and have only ever seen banks here. Could understand if sub-zero temperatures, draughty stables with concrete floors but many places with banks are indoor stables with rubber matting!

I've enquired today about some anti casting strips. They are going to cost £300 !!!
Does anyone know where in the Uk I might be able to get them cheaper.
Thanks
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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Get rid of the banks - more room to move! I don't bank any stables and can't understand why people do. Never had a horse cast either I've lived in a number of countries and have only ever seen banks here. Could understand if sub-zero temperatures, draughty stables with concrete floors but many places with banks are indoor stables with rubber matting!

I ve seen several casted, nearly all with new shavings down, having said that many horses roll with no problem, with banks.
 

AdorableAlice

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I've enquired today about some anti casting strips. They are going to cost £300 !!!
Does anyone know where in the Uk I might be able to get them cheaper.
Thanks

Timber from Wickes, box of screws and a handy husband = £40, excuse the trussed up carthorse, he was in the breaking process.

There is nothing complicated about anti cast strips, all they are there for is to provide a point of purchase for a horse to be able to push against.

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Honey08

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I don't do banks any more, I think they make stables poky, which is one of the reasons they get cast, and I don't believe a bit of straw or shavings can help prevent a 500 kilo animal from getting stuck. (And I used to be very pro banks and did huge perfect BHS banks!)

I second the comments about rolling in new shavings. Nearly every horse I know loves rolling in shavings (as do hens!) and nearly every horse I've known get cast has also been on shavings too (and most were youngsters too). I'd swop the bed to straw. I agree with the vet, have a lunge line handy.
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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I don't do banks any more, I think they make stables poky, which is one of the reasons they get cast, and I don't believe a bit of straw or shavings can help prevent a 500 kilo animal from getting stuck. (And I used to be very pro banks and did huge perfect BHS banks!)

I second the comments about rolling in new shavings. Nearly every horse I know loves rolling in shavings (as do hens!) and nearly every horse I've known get cast has also been on shavings too (and most were youngsters too). I'd swop the bed to straw. I agree with the vet, have a lunge line handy.

I think the problem often is the stables are too small nowadays, with racehorses the boxes are usually a decent size, and shavings are often used, with banks, and getting cast is rare.
 

Groom Mum

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I was wondering about going over to straw to be honest.
Mine is young and he did rush straight in on the deep new clean shavings and rolled then got himself stuck. I want to put something on the walls as i have plywood kickboards and they are pretty slippery. But i cant see where he was trying to push off the wall, so its going to be difficult to gauge where. I would do the wicks wood and screws but i do not have a handyman Hubby unfortunately. So its back to looking for the strips i think.
 

AdorableAlice

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I was wondering about going over to straw to be honest.
Mine is young and he did rush straight in on the deep new clean shavings and rolled then got himself stuck. I want to put something on the walls as i have plywood kickboards and they are pretty slippery. But i cant see where he was trying to push off the wall, so its going to be difficult to gauge where. I would do the wicks wood and screws but i do not have a handyman Hubby unfortunately. So its back to looking for the strips i think.

Any handyman would be able to screw the wooden strips up for you, less than an hours labour. Once a horse is against the wall on his back no bank of straw or anything else will help him.
 

only_me

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I've banks in stable & my horse occasionally gets cast - but I usually only know by some new marks on the wall! Plus he only rolls daytime so I never see him.
He wriggles himself out. The idiot digs the banks down everytime he rolls (which isn't often in his stable) so it gives him more room but less to get up!

The stable was 12x12, and he also got cast a couple of times when he was living in a 20x30 shed last year. Again only evidence was a hole in plywood!! The shed was deep straw & had no banks. Stable was shavings with banks. Dammed if you do & dammed if you don't!

Tbh the best thing I've found is to have a big solid deep litter shavings bed with banks, it gives the horse a solid footing on base to get up and manoeuvre round. Helps prevent damage to hips/hocks/elbows/knees and gives a bit of depth for horse to play in :)

Also, stay away from a horse who is cast as much as possible - a trapped horse is a very dangerous horse with flailing legs etc. Use a lunge rein and loop it round a leg and pull on from a distance. Getting cast does happen and there is little we can do to prevent it if they're determined lol.
If worried you could get an anti cast roller and put it on him, even if it's only when you put fresh shavings in :)
 

Groom Mum

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I've banks in stable & my horse occasionally gets cast - but I usually only know by some new marks on the wall! Plus he only rolls daytime so I never see him.
He wriggles himself out. The idiot digs the banks down everytime he rolls (which isn't often in his stable) so it gives him more room but less to get up!

The stable was 12x12, and he also got cast a couple of times when he was living in a 20x30 shed last year. Again only evidence was a hole in plywood!! The shed was deep straw & had no banks. Stable was shavings with banks. Dammed if you do & dammed if you don't!

Tbh the best thing I've found is to have a big solid deep litter shavings bed with banks, it gives the horse a solid footing on base to get up and manoeuvre round. Helps prevent damage to hips/hocks/elbows/knees and gives a bit of depth for horse to play in :)

Also, stay away from a horse who is cast as much as possible - a trapped horse is a very dangerous horse with flailing legs etc. Use a lunge rein and loop it round a leg and pull on from a distance. Getting cast does happen and there is little we can do to prevent it if they're determined lol.
If worried you could get an anti cast roller and put it on him, even if it's only when you put fresh shavings in :)

I invested in some anti cast strips. im getting them fitted in next couple pf days.
I hope they help but the hard bit will be at what height !!
 

Alec Swan

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Tonight my youngster was really excited and rushed into his shelter as it had new shavings and he wanted to roll, …….. . I freaked out ……..

It was the new bed, as you realise, and it may not happen again. 'Freaking-out' only makes matters worse. It's VITAL that you stay calm, point out that he's an idiot, and then go about rolling him back over.

We had a TB mare, many years ago and it was an elderly groom who casually wandered in to the box, took a bit of baler-string, put it around the underside FRONT fetlock and gently rolled her back over. If the horse isn't too big, then simply grabbing the front underside fetlock would work just as well. I would be very carful about attempting to tie anything to a back foot as the chances of getting kicked are greater. Rolled over and as he rights himself, then stand clear! :)

Alec.
 

Groom Mum

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It was the new bed, as you realise, and it may not happen again. 'Freaking-out' only makes matters worse. It's VITAL that you stay calm, point out that he's an idiot, and then go about rolling him back over.

We had a TB mare, many years ago and it was an elderly groom who casually wandered in to the box, took a bit of baler-string, put it around the underside FRONT fetlock and gently rolled her back over. If the horse isn't too big, then simply grabbing the front underside fetlock would work just as well. I would be very carful about attempting to tie anything to a back foot as the chances of getting kicked are greater. Rolled over and as he rights himself, then stand clear! :)

Alec.

Thanks Alec
I think I freaked a bit because I walked to his shelter and his head was dangling out and he looked so scared. I did call him an idiot a few times after. He's so clumsy. If anything happens, it's always him. He's only 3 and he's discovering everything. Therefore gets himself into all sorts of mischief. It's like ha ing a toddler again. I have to move everything out of his reach. I think you are right about the new bed. I'd just laid it. It was far too deep. He took one look headed straight for it and down he went. Since it happened I've cut the banks down made a shallower bed and he hasn't done it. But just to be sure I'm installing these anti casting strips. I've also kept a lunge line handy. So if he does it while I'm there I'll tie it to a leg and pull him away to the middle of the shelter. These ponies honestly. They will finish me off. Love em to bits though 😜
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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thanks alec
i think i freaked a bit because i walked to his shelter and his head was dangling out and he looked so scared. I did call him an idiot a few times after. He's so clumsy. If anything happens, it's always him. He's only 3 and he's discovering everything. Therefore gets himself into all sorts of mischief. It's like ha ing a toddler again. I have to move everything out of his reach. I think you are right about the new bed. I'd just laid it. It was far too deep. He took one look headed straight for it and down he went. Since it happened i've cut the banks down made a shallower bed and he hasn't done it. But just to be sure i'm installing these anti casting strips. I've also kept a lunge line handy. So if he does it while i'm there i'll tie it to a leg and pull him away to the middle of the shelter. These ponies honestly. They will finish me off. Love em to bits though ��
loop it round, don't tie in a knot of course, it depends on which far side leg is most conveniently placed, you have to take your own safety as a priority, as hoofs flailing are an invitation to head injuries..............., but often the horse will scrabble and then lie still when it realises it is stuck.
 
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Groom Mum

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That's what upset me. He was motionless he just lay really still. It was very upsetting to see. That worries me a bit. You have to obviously tie it to get hold of him. I'm guessing once they stand they have a shake then are calmed down so you can take the lunge line off then !! Mine arnt shod. But I still wouldn't want to be in the line of a flailing leg.
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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You just throw a loop of the lunge rope over the leg and pull towards you[you are a leg length away], then you can drop the lunge rein and get of of the way, there is no knot. The lunge rein falls off the leg and on to the ground. You start with holding two ends , it needs to be long enough to go round leg and back to you, that is why a lead rope is no use, as you would be too close, it is not a matter of strength, all you are doing is tipping him over towards you so he can get up in the normal way.
I usually [not that this is a common occurance] , loop the rein over the far away leg from me and I am near the [open] door, as I want to get out before horse stands up and not be in his way.
 
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Tyssandi

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I always have a lunge line handy, loop it round the far side hind leg [usually] and flip towards you. I have never had to actually pull one round. Just keep well back when you pull on the lunge rein, it is just to get them away from the wall.
Wear a hat.
He may not do it again as he got a fright.
Banks need to be a foot wide and solid to work.
If they are jammed tight against the wall on their side and 4 feet scrabbling, and you cant flip them over towards you, then you may have to pull physically, but in that case I would put a headcollar on and try to pull them towards you.
You need to loop one round the front leg as well as the hind too as it can be too heavy too pull if horses front half not moving. My boy cast 2 months ago and I was on my own apart from a girl with impaired vision who for safety reasons could not be in a position to help and only looped the back half and could not get him past the center of gravity (it was all captured on cctv) I had no lunge line to hand, so now we have two lunge lines outside the tack room for emergencies.

You not always able to get a hat if they are locked in the tack room as ours are, it is advisable obviously but in reality a hat is often the last thing on your mind when helping a horse in difficulty
 
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Exploding Chestnuts

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You need to loop one round the front leg as well as the hind too as it can be too heavy too pull if horses front half not moving. My boy cast 2 months ago and I was on my own apart from a girl with impaired vision who for safety reasons could not be in a position to help and only looped the back half and could not get him past the center of gravity (it was all captured on cctv) I had no lunge line to hand, so now we have two lunge lines outside the tack room for emergencies.

You not always able to get a hat if they are locked in the tack room as ours are, it is advisable obviously but in reality a hat is often the last thing on your mind when helping a horse in difficulty
Well, yes, but in any situation, it is best to take a deep breath and then decide what is best to do, the horse is not in "imminent danger" there is often time to do something. I carry rope and hat in my van, at all times plus a first aid kit, so I can take some sort of action in most situations, not necessarily horse related.
Last time my boy got stuck [in a fallen tree!]. I had no choice but to leave him and go get an assistant as it was impossible to do anything on my own [I tried]. I had to spend a lot of time in amongst his hind legs, which he as fine with, then the other person backed him up, he then breasted himself out of the situation, and all was well, no need for histrionics.
Most situations are recoverable.
 
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Lego

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I doubt he'll do it again if he scared himself... But lunge line always comes in handy - once came across YOs young warmblood cast. Last person there in the evening and didn't think I could sort him myself, so sat on his neck to stop him scrabbling in case he got injured until I got hold of someone.

Then headcollar on for control, and looped lunge lines round far fetlocks and dodged the legs and lurching once we got his legs the right side. I'd never tie anything round the legs - loop gives enough leverage and falls clear easily.
 

WandaMare

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My horse got cast the first time I put her in our bigger stable, I only put her in there for 5 mins while I was mucking out hers. The stable is 20 by 14 compared to her 12 by 14, so I think she thought she had room for a proper big roll which she wouldn't necessarily even try in her own stable. She is the type who doesn't need any encouragement to roll. It was also the first time I had not put up banks in that stable, having been told they don't prevent them getting cast.

It was really scary to watch her panicking but luckily by the time I had run to get help and a lunge line, she had just managed to wriggle her shoulders along the ground far enough to get her feet down onto the wall and push herself up.

I'm not so sure about getting rid of the banks now. While they won't necessarily stop the horse getting cast, I do wonder if the horse wouldn't have tried to roll so near to the wall had the banks been there. They also helped her feet to grip the wooden board once she managed to get them low enough to push herself away. I suppose it depends on each individual circumstance, but I have put them back now just in case and she hasn't done it again.

I watch a couple of experienced grooms free a cast horse when I was based at a livery yard and they did it by both gripping the mane and pulling the neck away from the wall then getting swiftly out of the way. I think you could only even attempt this if the horse is lying relatively calmly and there is easy access straight back out of the stable for the groom's safety.
 
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