My bed on full livery

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mar2505

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I am on full livery and on a straw bed, I also have rubber matting for my horse. I posted on here a few weeks ago ref it being thin and people suggested paying for extra straw. I have done this but it is still thin and it seems looking at other beds its th way the yo likes to keep them , easier to muck out etc. My horse lies down every night and the stable is massive, should I be worried or not. I know some peopel have shavings very thin on rubber matting but this is straw. By the way he has bone spavin and artiritis in his fetlocks.
I am happy at the yard other than that so really need to know how to approach the yo now.
 
Can I suggest that you ask for a bale of straw and then put in the amount you would like, showing it to the YO and asking if a bed like that would be possible? If there is really hardly anything then that strikes me as unreasonable but as a yo I also know that some of my clients in the past have wanted the unreasonable. I don't mean that you are but the yo's approach to you may be coloured by that.
 
How thick and springy is your rubber matting? Do you feel comfortable lying on it yourself? If so, should be fine for your horse with only a thin bed on top.
 
could you maybe try and muck it out one day a week and put in a load of straw then, obviously letting her know that you will pay for the extra. And then just say to your YO that you like it that way because of his legs etc.
 
If there wasn't rubber matting laid down, I'd agree that a thin bed, particularly for a horse with joint problems, would be a no-no. But in all fairness, the primary benefits of having mats laid in a stable, is that less bedding can be used (just enough to absorb urine and prevent splashing when staling) and to make mucking out quicker.

If your horse is still laying down at night, he's obviously comfortable doing so.

Providing the matting covers the whole box (you mentioned it being a large stable), I would be disinclined to worry. Particularly as you're happy with everything else at the yard
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The mats do cover the whole stable and it is enough to cover if he wees etc just not like traditional straw beds all springy etc. I must admit I struggle to afford bills in first place but neeed livery as job sometimes keeps me at work till 6 so I know he is looked after and then I go and ride. I have a confidence issue so riding has to be my priority, no excuses!
There is a girl on diy who is making me worse cause she says she would never have a bed like this etc etc and I am not sure I am being paranoid.
 
Right, if YOUR horse is happy then leave the snipey diy to her own devices! Maybe she's picking up on your worries and using them to wind you up? Have come across a few people on yards who just love to wind people up and watch them go. X
 
You horse is fine. He has rubber matting which insulates him against the cold and the straw will stop the splashing etc. I am a YO and I spent the money on rubber matting all the stables to reduce costs for bith the liveries and myself. If a DIY wishes to have a huge bed then they pay for the extra bedding and they can do what they like. My own horses and full liveries have a bed that is about 4 inches thick - a wood pellet bedding, that is plenty and means I can do them comfortably but also economically. I have to make money but I also have to muck them out in a set time to make it viable. I will not increase the thickness of their beds without increasing the cost to the liveries, both for the additional bed and the additional time it takes to muck out. Ignore the stirring livery - some people have really too much time on their hands. Speak to your YO if you are concerned but I really think your horse is fine.
 
It's doubtful you're being paranoid, but a bedded matted stable does look different to a bedded non-matted stable (well, you hope the unmatted stable looks different!)

It can be a hard transition, accepting that the matted stable simply does not require the thick bed that a normal stable does. Ignore this girl on the yard commenting on your horse's bed. Unless she is familiar with the acceptable way of using rubber mats, then she's not one to comment. Sure, some people fully bed over rubber matting, but this defeats the purpose of laying them IMO.

Can you photo your bed and post it on here?
 
I know some yards where the horses are kept on very minimal shavings beds - you can pay for more, but then they have 15 mins to do a full muck out of your stable - if it takes longer than that you are charged double.

At those rates, you may as well just be on part (i.e. have them feed/turnout/bring in/feed) and then muck out yourself when you get to the yard. Even if it takes 30 mins it is worth not having the stress of worrying if you horse is on a clean bed or if he is afraid to lie down as the bed isnt soft enough.
 
OH, the trials and tribulations of being on full livery.

The trouble is you will never get a bed as good as the one you could do on diy. You have to decide whether the other things are worth staying for.

I am having a similar issue at my yard at the moment. My horses shaving bed was topped up with 2nd hand shavings (that were at least 4 months old and bought by a diyer who recently left the yard).

As I pay £450 a month i find this completely unacceptable but i suspect i am going to be told that it is tough. (I wont even go into the argument about the health risks to my horse who has COPD, or the fact that i was told on sunday that my stable had only been skipped out since wednesday!! :0(

At the end of the day you have to decide whether it is worth fighting for, if you mention it and it isnt resolve then vote with your feet.
 
Thanks all,
I know it probably seems petty but like you say I am so used to having a full bed. I also think because I am last to be mucked out that the straw she allocates has run out by the time it gets to me. oh god I do worry
 
[ QUOTE ]
OH, the trials and tribulations of being on full livery.

The trouble is you will never get a bed as good as the one you could do on diy. You have to decide whether the other things are worth staying for.

I am having a similar issue at my yard at the moment. My horses shaving bed was topped up with 2nd hand shavings (that were at least 4 months old and bought by a diyer who recently left the yard).

As I pay £450 a month i find this completely unacceptable but i suspect i am going to be told that it is tough. (I wont even go into the argument about the health risks to my horse who has COPD, or the fact that i was told on sunday that my stable had only been skipped out since wednesday!! :0(

At the end of the day you have to decide whether it is worth fighting for, if you mention it and it isnt resolve then vote with your feet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find that completely unacceptable regardless of how much I was paying - the yard must be 100% in every other way for me to stay there with second hand shavings. And I wouldnt have been able to help myself from clearing out the stable and putting in a new bed myself, and quite frankly if I am doing that then I may as well be on DIY.

But totally agree, you have to weigh up the pros and cons. Having been on part (everything except exercise) and full (including exercise, clipping, pulling etc) you just have to find something that you can live with.
 
The way I look at full livery is the following:

The yard is offering you a service for which you are paying, however the yard is also a business so the quality of the service is naturally driven by the price they are charging.

The cheaper the livery, the more corners will be cut. However that doesn't necessarily mean that your horses welfare is compromised, it's just that the standards aren't perfect. Bedding is a good example. In an ideal world you would like a thick fresh bed everyday. In reality this costs more in bedding and labour for the YO. However at the end of the day it is pretty irrelevant to the horse given he has rubber matting and sufficient bed to pee on and lie down on.

So what I am trying to say is, if you are paying a high charge for livery (e.g. £100 + per week) then you might have more cause for a moan, but if you are paying in the £70-90 bracket then it might just be a battle not worth fighting if you are generally happy at the yard.

Being on full livery really does mean that for some things you just have to accept that YO's don't do it your way!
 
Think about when horses are out 24/7 to put your mind at rest. They lie down on wet mud, they love it. They lie down on hard, dry ground (my mare's favourite). They love it. Some even lie down on muck heaps and love it. With mats your horse cannot get scrapes or bumps even if the bed is thin and thats the main thing. Your horse might well prefer standing on more minimal bedding rather than shuffling through heavy, itchy straw all the time!
 
CBAnglo - I am glad you agree with me, I was beginning to think I was a moaning minnie. Trust me, they are in no doubt as to my thoughts on the matter, I was shaking with rage when I first spoke to them, and have followed it up with an email. I have arranged to go and see a new yard on Monday, just in case the reply i get is unsatisfactory.

b&j - I am at a yard you know and 'love' (with my black welsh d ;-) )

ps (sorry to hijack thread!)

H_H, the dirtier my horses stable is, the messier he becomes, with clean shavings he poos in the banks, if it gets dirty he gives up and poos everywhere. horses dont lay in their poo in the fields, they walk to specific areas (roughs) to poo and wee, they roll and lay down elsewhere.

 
QR...

I deep bed one of mine- he has a big fluffy bed.

The minging mare, however - has rubber matting and a thin bed of straw.....it looks totally different but its fine, she's fine- she lies down in it and is happy enough.

Its probably because its different to what you are used to.

By nature- horses are not 'nesting' creatures....they lie down in mud, on hard fields etc.....I'm sure your horse is fine and dandy.
 
Really, ha ha
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Had completely bypassed me you were on here
Am I right in thinking a sour faced YM and rather bullish YO !

If so, knowing the yard, I would shove their second hand shavings where the sun doesn't shine
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You pay enough to be there!
 
I had a similar problem on shavings so I put extra on but the bed soon became thin again. Personally, I think two bales of shavings is plenty even in the winter so, don't really want to start paying for extra.

Her bed is perfectly clean so no complaints, it's just not the way I would have her bed. In other words, if it's clean and your horse doesn't roll and and get cast I wouldn't worry too much.
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2 bales a week in winter (horse turned out 8 hrs a day) is perfectly fine - if you are doing it yourself. then you spend a lot more time sifting through, taking out the poo and the wet bits.

If the groom has 15 mins and is going in with a shovel, I think you need at least 3 bales a week.

If your horse is a minger (and one of mine is incredibly dirty - I have been known to cry when he is on boxest as I just think he is punishing me for not letting him out even if he is on 3 legs) and I was using 3 bales a week and he had a very thin (but very clean) bed. He did lie down, but then his rugs were absolutely filthy and I had to change his stable rugs every 2-3 weeks so it was costing a fortune in cleaning bills.

MMM - your yard sounds delightful. To be honest, I would question any yard that thought using old shavings was acceptable - who knows what could have been spread from one horse to another and what other corners they were cutting. I was paying more than you at one yard, and they literally had 1/2 a bale a week! But they looked after the horses well and catered to any of their other needs, so I had to bite my tongue.

I really do think you are held to ransom when you are on livery and there is no point complaining because then you have a reputation as a "trouble maker". The only thing you can do is move, but then you have the reputation of a "mover" so really, its a lose-lose situation.
 
Depends on the circumstances and whether it is a aesthetic thing or whether there is a health issue.
Horses don't want necessarily want big springy beds and difficult to say without seeing it how thin your bed is.

I moved yards recently. My horse is disgustingly dirty no matter what combination of bedding or mats I use.
At my previous yard they preferred to use a minimal bed for him as then there was less to take out. I paid for my own bedding so it wasn't a cost issue.
At one point they suggested a day bed e.g. sweep all the bed back to the banks in the day and then only lay it at night as he had rubber mats but that just meant he stood in muck all day instead of soggy bedding.
Problem was his feet got bad if there wasn't enough bed to absorb or cover all the poo and wee.
I appreciate he took longer to muck out than a clean horse but one look at his feet told you something wasn't working for him.

At my new yard, straw is unlimited (for both diy and livery) so he has a much deeper bed and his feet improved within a week. Waste drains through leaving him standing on a drier layer on top.

I don't like yards that say prices include straw or hay or feed and then ration you. As a yard owner surely you work out the average and while some horses will use more some will use less so it will balance out.

The people with dirty horses and poor doers will do better out of these deals than the people with clean horses and good doers but the alternative is to charge people for what they use which can take alot of tracking.

Of course everyone should be careful not to be wasteful - I muck out at weekends and only take out what really needs to come out but I make sure he has a deep enough bed.

In your case if your horse seems happy and what he is standing on is clean and dry, I wouldn't worry but if there are genuine health reasons why he would benefit from a deeper bed then I don't think the yard should put their convenience first.
 
I agree with Headless-horsewoman....

think of the ones living out 24/7 like mine, no rubber mats or straw and my ground is stoney in places but they lay down, roll, sleep etc...

If you have a thick straw bed as well, its seems to defeat the object of having rubber matting in the first place...
 
Mine are on thick mats with a thinnish bed of shavings & are fine. They're still living out at the moment & the ground is very hard, but they happily lie down on the shortish grass.

It takes a while to get used to the idea from a human perspective, & I still prefer the appearance of a banked up thick bed, however, you really don't need a thick bed if you have mats down.
 
I think it is actually a bit different for a horse with spavins and arthritis. My horse used to sleep in the field all the time but now he wont lie down unless he has a thick bed - he needs the extra comfort for his hocks.
 
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