My belated thoughts about the NT thread

flohelf

flohelf

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I'm back after being unable to log in since last Monday... But thank god ! Admin fixed it for me
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As a result, I couldn't post on the WINNER OF BADMINTON thread and I just wanted to say this:
- Can't believe some of the harsh (if not ridiculous) comments on NT
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- Picking on him re dropping his reins after SJ as if this should be THE thing to remember about Badders 08 is rather unfair...
- Good riding comes in different styles. Personally, NT's style isn't my fav but he IS a brilliant (skilled if not stylish) XC pilot (my fav pilot is AN
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) and he holds his nerves all the way including in the SJ which is his weakest. Have to give him credit for the only one fault with Hildago who is by far the worst SJer of all NT's horses
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- Hence the explosion of joy, dropping his reins, etc... As I'm sure it took amazing concentration, skill and guts to carry Hildago over those last poles.
- I do happen to know that NT is very careful about his horses.
- My impression was that some posters were expressing underlying sour feelings over a non-British win...
- To those: Badminton is the most fabulous INTERNATIONAL eventing comp in the world. One way to keep it an only British winning event would boil down to downgrading it to a NATIONAL event... I'm sure no one would want this. So, be prepared to see riding, expression of victory and/or defeat, horse management that is different from what is in practice in the UK. That's called tolerance and open-mindedness.
- I can think of a few UK-based professional riders who are no role models

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and they don't seem to get shot down by people whenever they compete abroad.

- And to those who might think I'm being biased: I JUST LIVE in France and have a British mum
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Yeh I agree with your thoughts on the fact its international and so we should be prepared to see different ways of doing things... food for thought for me
 
Hi AmyMay ! Still waiting for his feedback... Stupid 9 hour time difference doesn't help for fast communication and our busy schedules
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Will post as soon as I hear from him. Thanks for asking
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I personally can't see what all the fuss is about either! Surely if a horse can stand up around the cross country phase of Badminton he should be able to gallop around a flat, mown SJ arena without being ridden into a contact? I would be worried if NT couldn't use his seat & legs enough to control the horse, to turn and to stop quickly without pulling on the reins if anything happened in such a safe environment!

When I was a kid, I used to knot my reins & cross my stirrups and kick my mare into a full gallop across 1000 acres of rough open common land. Nothing bad ever happened to me or my mare while we were doing this, if anything it made me learn how to use my seat and taught my mare to think for herself. I know a pony club pony is a different league to a Badminton winner but the principle remains the same. I think too many people now are a bit too quick to jump on the extreme safety bandwaggon and therefore horses and riders miss out on alot of fun and chance to develop their skills by being too scared to take the slightest risk - and I'm not talking about doing stupid things but just what horses and riders have been doing for decades with few problems eg PC kids jumping bareback.
 
I didn't see the other post but my 2 cents..

I was there! It was a lovely moment.

The horse and rider celebrated, both enjoyed it. The guy had a huge smile on his face and the horse blew off some steam.

It was genuinely lovely to see.
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Some people around us were going 'bloody French' and I was so embarrassed for them. They also cheered when another non-Brit had a knock down, they were disgraceful to be so unsporting.
 
Just to clarify, my comments had diddly squat to do with his nationality.
I'm not English.
I do live in France.
I base everything I have said on his riding as I perceive it.
If I hadn't watched him ride over here on other horses as well as Hd'I and Gd'S, I probably would be more of a fan. But I have seen him on other horses and I really don't like how rough he is.
At the end of the day, it is a difference of opinion, and to assume that not applauding his riding is racist is more ridiculous than any comments posted about him.
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blackeventer, i can see the points you're making, but as one of the most vociferous on that thread, i'd like to say i'm not even British... so it wasn't patriotism that motivated me! i have no problem at all with a non-British winner, was delighted that Lucinda and Headley Brittania won last year, for example.
i hardly think that this one small incident is going to be the thing people think of when they remember Badders 08, it'll be the fact that the xc course caused such amazing problems to so many top riders and horses, i reckon.
 
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At the end of the day, it is a difference of opinion, and to assume that not applauding his riding is racist is more ridiculous than any comments posted about him.
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My point was about being tolerant of people's different ways and practices... Which is far different from racism. Not the point here.

Gonetofrance, of course you're entitled to your own opinion and there is no obligation to like a rider just because he is a/the winner ! But I've seen him ride many times including apart from comps, while schooling his horses, etc... And I guess (although not in love with his style) that I haven't seen the same things as you (ie the "rough" riding) and was surprised at your perception of him.
No offense intended
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I did wonder how you would take that thread
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I posted my thoughts but did not slate NT, I'm not like that. I thought he was a worthy winner, was dissapointed for Lucy W because she lives 6 miles away from me, Boo was sent there for a few months and also, she has done brilliantly well but I definately don't have sour grapes.
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I guess it's just another one of those, agree to disagree subjects
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XXX
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[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

At the end of the day, it is a difference of opinion, and to assume that not applauding his riding is racist is more ridiculous than any comments posted about him.
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[/ QUOTE ]

My point was about being tolerant of people's different ways and practices... Which is far different from racism. Not the point here.

Gonetofrance, of course you're entitled to your own opinion and there is no obligation to like a rider just because he is a/the winner ! But I've seen him ride many times including apart from comps, while schooling his horses, etc... And I guess (although not in love with his style) that I haven't seen the same things as you (ie the "rough" riding) and was surprised at your perception of him.
No offense intended
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[/ QUOTE ]

No offence taken....
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I can only pass comment on what I have seen, tho'....maybe I've caught him on a few bad days.....the worst being at Saumur last year on a lovely grey horse. He was socking it in the teeth really badly, and swinging off it's teeth over every fence I saw. And his other horses were ridden similarly. I still saw flashes of that at Badminton, noticeably at the skinny at the foot of the bank after the V Vee.

I do think he's competent, and don't doubt any of the other plaudits, ie bravery, guts etc, but it should be about more than that for me.....maybe that makes me old-fashioned, but having spent so long watching the sport, from the heydays of Ginny and Lucinda, through Toddy, Blythe and Andrew Nic, Ian Stark, Andew Hoy, Pippa and currently Lucy W, Harry Meade, Caroline Powell who ride smoothly and with regard to their horses, (all these off the top of my head) he doesn't make comfortable viewing. And shouldn't be an example to emulate.

Jeez.....as I said ages ago, I'm happy to agree to disagree, it's just my opinion!
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That aside, I do get a bit of a bee in my bonnet about the Brits are Best attitude of some peeps, and I didn't want to be tarred with the same brush!!
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Hey Lou !
Well, I had a lot of catching up to do with the forum and that thread in particular as I couldn't login for 3 days (drove me mad...How addicted are we ?
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)
Didn't mean to start the controversy over NT again but just wanted to have my say
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Disagreement is no problem. Was just amazed at the extent of NT bashing going on...
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Sounds like you had a good time at Badders !
And yes was disappointed for Lucy W and so much so as well for Andrew N
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Both horses out, what bad luck !
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XXX Flo
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I actually couldn't give a monkey's what nationality the winner is, and was on the edge of my seat cheering him on in the sj - but in a split second I went from elation at seeing him become the first Frenchman to win Badminton, to thinking "disgraceful" at the rein dropping/galloping.

So I was one of the people who agreed with the well-formulated opinions of Kerilli and others who commented on this.
 
completely agree with Rowreach.I think he is a very talented jockey but i do wish he would minimise risks and not just drop the reins. not only is it a bit dangerous, surely the horse feels isolated all of a sudden after being very carefully and accurately guided round the sjing.
 
I didn't want him to win, purely because I really wanted Lucy to win as she is local... He had me hoping throughout the round! Not knowledgeable enough to comment on his riding, but I he looks less smooth than some - saw him at the Lake and in the SJ and preferred other styles.

I don't think people do want Badminton (and Burghley) to be restricted to British riders - people celebrated wins by Andrew Hoy and Moonfleet, Lucinda Fredericks.

Also, I suspect you saw more emotion from him because he actually won with his SJ round, only the rider who wins from last draw is in a position to gallop around, the others aren't in the ring (or on their horses!) when they win, which would make a difference.
 
Fantastic rider and totally deserved the win. As for the dropping of the reins i personally do not see anything wrong with it but thats just my opinion.
 
I didn't see the original thread. The thing about Badders is anyone can win - the XC proved that the top riders are not always a sure thing
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NT won because he did better than the others over the three days and if I could ride half as well as he can I'd be one very happy lady!
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I have no problem with who won and the joy of the occasion was a delight. I don't see the problem with galloping round the arena on finishing.

In my opinion Zara Philips pushing that poor horse to the end of xc was inexcusable, she was lucky not to have had a serious accident.
 
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I have no problem with who won and the joy of the occasion was a delight. I don't see the problem with galloping round the arena on finishing.

In my opinion Zara Philips pushing that poor horse to the end of xc was inexcusable, she was lucky not to have had a serious accident.

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Thanks for last point Whyworry ! I was starting to wonder if it had gone unnoticed
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No it didn't go unnoticed, quite a few people mentioned it and also mentioned Oliver Townend on Coup de Coeur.
As for NT, I don't like to see him drop the reins but his face when he won was fantastic haha! Never seen anyone so happy to win, it was awesome haha
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Poor Coup de Coeur... He's such a nice horse (used to belong to a guy I know whose yard is next to where I keep my boy) and everything I keep reading and hearing about OT, like he is real hard on his horses...
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My friends were appauled at Zara's horse, I didn't see it as I had set out on the course, I did watch it later and was very embarrassed and shocked, it should have been pulled up.
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Secondly, I think you have every right to worry about Coup de Cour because I personally think his jockey is one of our worst for pushing their horses to fast to soon. Lets hope his owners realise this sooner rather than later.
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Yes, hope so too... Leslie Law had him for a very short while and not sure but I think WFP for an even shorter while... and then CdeC went to OT.
Wonder why he's been changing hands so often ?
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It's usually the owners, they fall out with the rider's because they want their horse to do everything but the riders aren't prepared to push them like that. I did hear that about another horse that had been with WFP then OT and finally went to USA but the owners were a nightmare
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i'll stick my neck out (nothing new there!) and say i thought Zara rode the horse very sympathetically when he tired. she just let him lope along very slowly in his own rhythm and pop the fences (he still had oodles of jump), she wasn't trying to hurry him along as i've seen others do on tiring horses. yes, thank GOD he didn't fall, but i didn't think she was pressing a tired horse, rather nursing one home carefully. i'm not her biggest fan, but i thought she did a good job on both horses, and i think if he'd lost his jump and been clouting fences she would have pulled up.

as for the commentator's comments about Matthew Wright's good judgement at retiring at the houses... he only did it because the horse said "NO" in no uncertain terms... wise horse, it did look very tired.
 
Then I'll stick mine out with yours
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That's what I saw re. Zara. He was still giving his fences masses of jump - but was running out of fuel in his gallop. She got off his back and let him canter home. Had he hit a fence - or if she had been further away from home then I believe she would have pulled up.
 
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