MY EMW THREAD

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Ive known Elaine from EMW Herefordshire for over 10 years and I know her toes would be curling if she knew the EMW name was being used for such a stupid, juvenile argument.
Please think of the damage certain comments can make to a small organisation, I know EMW would not like their name to be associated with such crap as contained in this thread.

JM07 made an offer to help......how did it degenerate so rapidly into the playground?

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the original thread was based on something like this..



i trawled through the EMW wbby..which i found informative..
i had a few questions..
whether i could write reports of sales and markets to help the "cause" of trying to drag some into the 21st century, as it's known i go to markets regularly....

i was/am offering a genuine service..of reporting back..etc..

it all went belly-up because poor ill-informed/ill-educated/going off half-cock dear old EstherSupporter, who is conspicuous by her abscence, accused me, of shooting myself in the foot because i was, after-all, a "Meat-man"...bless her mis-construed little self!.......
even when everything was explained in black and white..and even in plain english...some STILL didn't get the point of my post.


i'll email EWM direct.....
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JM07, if you want a copy of the Regulations, to assess your markets against, either ask Elaine at the email address on the web site or PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy.
Any eyes and ears at markets are very welcome, along with a note of the market managers (if there is one) and the County Council or Unitary Authority - Trading Standards have a responsibility and if the Regulations are being flouted they need to know. A report to EMW can be used for us to apply pressure to ensure they clean up their act.
And for the record, sending for meat isn't against the regulations, and is often a necessary means of removing unwanted horses and ponies, so long as they aren't treated cruelly along the way.
 
They are the Welfare of Horses at Markets Order 1990 - UK only. They don't specifically relate to the Animal Welfare Act 2006 but as I understand it that Act has lots of different Orders yet to be made, so they are still in force so far as I am aware.
I don't think there is much EU legislation, otherwise the Transport across states wouldn't be dependant on individual member states legislation. ILPH would know, they campaign on that one.
 
It is fantastic that people what to get involved and help work towards improving equine welfare standards. To tackle the issues and make long term sustainable differences is a hard slog and requires as much energy and dedication as was - and is evident with the Amersham horses. I have great respect for EMW and their work and hope putting the following information in the ‘mix’ so to speak - helps.

Here are two ways to actively get involved.
One: Find out what your local council candidate will do to improve equine welfare before you cast your vote on 1st May. This is an opportunity to ACT! and is especially important if you have equine welfare concerns in your local area such as:

> Equine welfare at markets
> Equine health and safety standards at equine markets

Will your local council candidate ensure that the council enforces the provisions of the Animal Welfare Act 2006?
Will your local council candidate ensure The Welfare of Horses in Markets (Order 1990 No. 2627) will be enforced?

JillA from EMW has also advised on the other thread I posted on this subject.

“You could ask them whether they are in support of properly trained and resourced Animal Health Officers. They are part of the Trading Standards function of the County Council, and are incredibly patchy across the country. Properly resourced, they should attend at any sales or markets to ensure the regulations are being adhered to and also follow up on welfare complaints from the public. Many try their hardest, but some know zip about equines, so that is an easy way to get some backbone into the system and ensure the Animal Welfare Act can be enforced.”

Two: Regarding attending markets the following information has been supplied by the:

National Equine Welfare Council Guidelines for markets. http://www.newc.co.uk/advice/report.php

The Welfare of Horses in Markets (Order 1990 No. 2627) became effective on March 1st 1991. Its provisions include:

- That every animal should be provided with an adequate supply of clean drinking water as often as necessary to keep it from suffering from thirst.
- That a veterinary surgeon should be called in to attend to ailing or injured animals.
- That litter, or other suitable material should be used on all surfaces where there is a risk of animals slipping.
- That pens should not be overcrowded and that regard should be given to differences in age, sex, size and temperament of the animals.
- That stallions (including rigs), pregnant mares, donkeys, fractious or unbroken animals and those that are injured or sick should be penned separately.
- That each mare with a foal at foot and each animal whose hind feet are shod should be kept separate
- That no person shall handle a horse at a market by lifting it from the ground or by dragging it along the ground by the head, neck, ear, leg or tail.
- That no person shall bring to the market a foal (the legal definition of which is: a horse under the age of 4 months) unless at the foot of its dam, or expose separately for sale a foal which has been brought to market at the foot of its dam. Also, no person shall separate a foal from its dam while they are awaiting removal from the market after being exposed for sale.
If you should see any instances of failure to observe the legislation - or indeed any ill-treatment whatsoever in the Market - complain at once to the Auctioneers Office.

Try also to contact and consult one of the following -
• The DEFRA Veterinary Surgeon
• The local DEFRA office.
• An official of the Trading Standards Department of the local authority.
• The Local Authority Animal Welfare Officer
• A representative of an Animal Welfare organisation.
• The RSPCA
• The Police

Remember it is possible that not all - or any of these – will be available. If the matter is not dealt with to your satisfaction, or if you consider the offence to be sufficiently serious, you must complain to the Animal Welfare Officer at the Local County or District Council Offices. He/she is responsible for conditions at the market, the correct conduct and for enforcing the relevant legal provisions. Either telephone or go in person, if possible taking a reliable witness to confirm your statement. If you have not been able to find a police officer at the market, telephone or go to the police station.
Finally, if you have a concern about the welfare of a horse at a sale or elsewhere, report it and insist on action. Do not try to take direct action yourself. Please accept the result even if it not what you want to hear and bear in mind that the investigating bodies are the experts.
 
Gonetofrance I think you are up against a culture, as well as politics - I gather the French don't see things from the animals point of view as much as we do. Good luck though, it must be difficult, at least we do have the legislation in place to use.
 
There is quite a lot more in the Order, including: no person shall use a goad or other instrument (they are listed) to hit or prod a horse, no person shall cause unnecessary suffering, no person shall cause an unfit horse to be exposed for sale etc. If you are interested in helping markets clean up their act you should really read the whiole thing.
And refer to an authority any breaches of the Order that you witness - don't instigate any action on your own, no matter what you see, we all have to work within the law.
If you want a copy of the Order (it isn't easy bedtime reading, so only obtain it if you are serious about working against cruelty in markets with us) PM me.
 
Thank heavens this thread is actually sticking to the topic. Long may it last! And Jill, will hopefully get to visit you in the next few weeks, at the moment every time I get a free day something comes along to occupy it .
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Anyone is welcome to visit (south of Market Drayton) I love showing off the old residents who have blossomed and improved now they are in a place of safety.
But by arrangement please - I do have a life!!
 
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Anyone is welcome to visit (south of Market Drayton) I love showing off the old residents who have blossomed and improved now they are in a place of safety.
But by arrangement please - I do have a life!!

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I'm about 7 miles away from Market Drayton! I had no idea there was an EMW base there.
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Hopefully having a 'tackroom' sort out soon (for tackroom read cupboard under the stairs, garage, and my bedroom
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Would be happy to drop off any unwanted stuff to you if you have need for it?
 
Yes please - all donations - tack, rugs, feed or plain old cash -gratefully received. And spread the word - I have done Radio Shropshire and the two local papers, but still people are unaware, for an area with so many horse owners.
Collecting tins in Countrywide Market Drayton, Newport and Bishops Castle - and look out for an Open Day in the summer.
 
I didn't post on the original thread because I too thought the posts eventually strayed so much from what JM07 was trying to achieve which was to ask genuine questions and actively offer support to a charity that could really benefit from this lady's eyes and ears, in my opinion.
I had heard of EMW before as I found their website some time ago and was appalled to read some of the reports which were listed. A friend of mine used to do reports for them, maybe still does and the charity was really recommended to me by my friend and commended for their actions.
Last year I posted some links on the forum to ebay as EMW was raising funds ( still is) on the auction site by asking people to buy bales of hay and sacks of carrots.
I know there was a pretty good response from some forum members for these and also some terrific vehicle stickers which could be bought ( funds going to the charity) which stated 'cars dent, horses die, please pass horses slow and wide. A great safety message whilst at the same time helping to raise funds for a very worthwhile charity, imo.
The stickers can be bought direct from the EMW website. as well as being listed on ebay at the moment too.
Caroline
 
Hi JillA,
In answer to your questions I would prefer to refer you to the document which explains first hand what it does and its role - just to avoid any error in interpretation on my part. The 'guide lines' were developed by the NEWC and the Livestock Auctioneers Association and its members.
Emma
 
JillA and voicesforhorses - I work in Marketing & PR and would be happy to write copy for press releases, articles, any posters/leaflets if you want, or to give advice as to how to promote your work. PM me if you like.
 
That is a very generous offer Naturally - can I pass it on to Elaine, who pretty much does much of the paperwork? I'm just a newcomer, Elaine and Siobhan have been running it for years, but all offers of help are very gratefully received and everyone has different skills. I'll put the two of you in touch then. (Pity we didn't know about you before Your Horse Live last year!!)
 
Cool, will get sorting out asap.

Also, if you can get some flyers/posters together, I will happily collect them from you and distribute them around my area (Shropshire/Staffordshire border).
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Let me know when you are planning to call and I will have some ready - they are a bit old and uninspired until we can redo them, but they will get the name of EMW out and about.
Thanks for your help guys, it is much appreciated by Charlie, Sabria, Homer, Chadd, Jimmy, Mannie, Musky, Beau, Fred, Sugar, and all the others I can't remember offhand!
 
can anyone tell me where market drayton is?

I still have donated items left over from the fundraising we did. Am more than happy, if not too far (ie within an hours drive of leicestershire), to come up and bring it all. Lots of tack and stuff and can try and get more together too.
 
Thanks, Jill, that is in fact the asso I'm part of.........I wrote the report....

I didn't realise that as I was posting on here, one of our other peeps was in touch with Elaine.....
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I have been contacted by a French girl who saw my post about it on an Anglofrench forum who is going to look into the regs over here for us.

As an interesting aside.......did you guys know there is still a meat trade from Scotland to Spain and France? I hear about that from a dealer recently.
Also.....I've been conducting research into the supermarket horse meat sold in France, and the only UK originated meat is Scottish. I find that bizarre, as to my knowledge, there are no registered slaughterhouses for horses for human consumption in Scotland.
Maybe they can come out of Potters, or wherever, as Scottish origin, if they've been travelled down? I know that meat is labelled from the country of slaughter, not rearing, but maybe as the UK is the four countries, it can be selective. Anyone know?

I'm just curious as to why it wasn't labelled UK?
 
it could well be slaughtered at Potters and sent via a chilled lorry to be processed in Scotland??
 
Hi Charlie, Market Drayton is a bit far, but Bromyard, on the far side of Worcester from you might be better. Get in touch with Elaine via the website www.emwuk.org.uk - she might know of a courier who could bring it. She would no doubt be more than pleased to see you if you do want to make the trip to the Herefordshire Sanctuary and meet the residents there.
(That goes for anyone who would like to visit)
 
Could be, JM. However, the labelling is normally the country of slaughter. Horsemeat here is often labelled (for example) Canada, but processed here.
It is a bit of a spurious enquiry in the grand scheme of things, it's just that being Scottish, I know that it couldn't have been killed for humans in Scotland.
Feck....the more I know the less I want to....and if Italians ate half the horses we've seen go off there......more melanomas than flesh...
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There are dealers who know the loopholes and still send live horses to France - they send them as registered ridden horses or something along those lines. There is a field on the outskirts of Wolverhampton containing dozens destined for Europe, owned by a disreputable dealer. I did ask the ILPH to look into it, but he is on the right side of the law - according to him!
Apparently he buys passports by the dozen too. We do what we can do - it's often a drop in the ocean, but better than nothing at all IMO
 
If he's buying passports, how does he correlate the microchip with them? Surely there's cause for concern if a horse has two chips, and two numbers on the passport?
Or are these horses that haven't been previously chipped?

Sorry, didn't mean to fire those at you, I'm just wondering out loud.
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It is so sad....some of the horses in those holding farms here are not French or Spanish in origin, they look like the coloured cobs common in the UK and Ireland. They could be stolen and shipped here and with the lack of regulations governing horses, here nobody would be any the wiser.
 
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