My first rant - breeding.

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amzy

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Why is it that some inexperienced people who find themselves with an unsound horse, for whatever reason, just seem to think the answer is to produce a foal. Why? Are there not enough unwanted foals around who are brought up by novice owners and end up getting ruined?

Someone local to me bought a horse from a dealer about 3 years ago. The girl rode it a couple of times but lost interest in the riding as she was far too nervous for it. The horse then went slightly lame for months and, apparently, the vets couldn't actually decide what the problem was. Anyway, I have just found out that she is keeping it as a pet and has put it in foal. The horse is an average-looking cob, quite bad-tempered and with no history.

The same could be said about dogs and cats - some people just think 'it would be nice'.

Feel free to disagree but I had to get that off my chest.
 
I agree. No point in breeding from something unless you can guarantee a future for the offspring. What will the foal be used for? You want to breed soemthing people will WANT to buy, will want to bring on and give it a home for years if not life.
Otherwise it's just another statistic which runs the risk of ending up in the wrong hands because it was 'cheap'.
 
I agree with you entirely,it is one reason why british breeding has a bad press. Round by me there are so many people with unsound or unsuitable mares who toddle off to a stallion that they nothing about, just to have a foal by ?. And then there is people like me who have had my mare graded and compete them, know their capabilitys and all the nice stallions are miles away.
The breeding program in this country really sucks, it is moving in the right direction but it is so fragmented and disorganised it will take 50 years to achieve anything.
Sorry Rant Over!
 
I agree whole heartedly. I own 5 mares and have been offered a free covering for all of them to a good well bred nice tempered stallion who is now a friends pet - but I have turned them down as in 2 cases the mares aren't good enough to breed from and with the other 3 its just not the right type of stallion.
I agree that people need to stop breeding from lame and badly put together crap.
 
maybe I come into your category then???
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Ebi was retired due to illness (ringbone in both her front feet) and was put in foal. Ebi has been a very good mare and proven herself in all ways and I wanted to have something to remind me of her when the awful day comes when she has to be PTS. Willow was born last June and she will never leave me. She will be kept forever and I have plans on what I will be doing with her.
Many people said I was wrong to put Ebi in foal due to the extra strain it would put on her feet. It didnt cause her any problems but I could see where people were coming from, and I respected their advice.

I do agree with what you are saying. Why breed form a horse that may look pretty but isnt anything spectacular or isnt proven. Why breed if it is just average. Also where does the foal end up when it hasnt been taught manners and starts to seriously misbehave? They are very cute when they are small and I can see why people spoil them. There are so many foals out there that it is normally cheaper to buy one than actually breed one.
 
I can see your point, and that case does sound ridiculous. And it is your opinion.

But don't forget some people breed because to them their animal is perfect to them. But yes i know there are lots of unwanted animals.
Ummmm there are different sides to this.
 
I agree with everything that the OP has said about this case. However, where do all the nice average 'happy hacker' type horses come from if they are not bred from an average mare. Just because a mare isn't an absolute superstar doesn't mean it shouldn't be bred from as long as it hasn't any conformation/temperant issues. Not everyone wants a sportshorse.
 
But you can have a nice x breed. IMO only people who know what they're doing should breed.
There does seem to be an awful lot of stallions for sale ATM, and alot of them arent nicely bred, but are small ponies.....
 
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maybe I come into your category then???

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Well i might do too actually.

I have bred both puppies and kittens, all sold very very quickly and we kept a lot, plus we have loads of friends who own them.
My 2 mares in-foal are not injured but i've always wanted a foal from them both. But they do have superb temps, good confo and i know they both have good ability. And i am trying to breed 2 good 14.2 performance ponies, which i will enter in the BEF scheme. But in other peoples eyes prehaps im breeding cr*p?!
 
I agree completely, even people who are trying to breed top competition horses use less than perfect horses, temperament and conformation wise, what is the point
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With modern breeding techniques we have access to world class bloodlines so why use anything else?

I think much of the problem in this country is that we breed for sentimental purposes rather than for temperament and soundness, hence the lack of world class horse power.

I realise there is a need for "amateur" horses but these also need soundness and temperament which are not always being bred for.
 
Well, I can't judge whether you should have put Ebi in foal or not but at least she was a proven mare and you have plans for the foals' future. So many people just decide to breed so they will have a 'cute' foal to look after.
Btw, can I join your clique please?
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totally agree with you. Ebi my mare has lovely breeding and the stallion I used also has lovely breeding. I thought long and hard about what I was going to do and I didnt go into it blind. I sought lots of advice and regularly spoke to my vet and the stud.

Maybe you do fit into the category (Shall we start our own clique?? only joking)

Like DD said - not everyone wants a sportshorse. Not everyone wants to pay a fortune for a horse.
I know that what I have got with Willow is something special. She will always remind me everyday of Ebi and it will bring back all the memories I have of her. I wasnt specifically looking to buy a foal. I knew that if I bred off Ebi I would have a cracking foal. Also if I decide to give up competing and want to be a happy hacker then I know i will have that with Willow.
 
yes she has proven herself and shes was perfect for me (she might not have been for someone else)
A lot of people do just breed to have a cute foal but the newness soon wears off when it starts to bite and kick

of course you can join our clique
 
Cl_aire, I cant see that you are breeding crap if your aiming for performance ponies.
Also E_C_W you don't fall into the "lame crap" category as your mare was proven and had a good temperament. I'm not sure ( I really am not sure) if I would breed from something with ringbone tho.
By saying lame crap above I was refering to the people that do seem to breed from mares with poor conformation, with soundness issues and bad temperaments.
I would imagine that "happy hackers" should come from sound decently put together well tempered "happy hackers".
 
Tate - yes I probably did breed for sentimental reasons. However you never know how a foal is going to turn out when it is older. It could have the best bloodlines and cost a fortune and never make anything, however something that isnt as well bred and maybe out of an amateur horse could go a lot further than expected.

My friend paid £8k for her foal from Verden - very nice horse with very nice breeding - hes now 4 and had lots of problems. Is it worth it???
 
I understand what you mean - just some people could put me in that category.
Ebi has a great temperament - me and her just click - she isnt the same with anyone else and certainly doesnt behave for anyone else. Shes a lovely genuine mare and she has produce a gorgeous foal who is the spit of her, has the same attitude and a lot of the same characteristics as her - everything I liked in Ebi - so ive won on both accounts.
Like i said before, it wasnt a decision I took lightly - I weighed up the pros and cons of the breeding and did seek lots of vet advice before I made the decision (the best thing ive done)
 
I sold a mare to a stud as she was lame, unkown breeding but was an international grade A. They got her graded with the Sports Horse of GB (former HIS) and she won champion broodmare at the grading. She was lame.
 
E_C_W sorry, wasn't meant as a dig at you, more the people trying to breed world class sport horses.

Of course people are going to breed for sentimental reasons but this should, to my mind, never overcloud sense as the foal will ultimately be the one to suffer with physical or behavioural problems.

It sounds as if you have considered breeding from your mare carefully and have a future planned for the foal, good luck
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however something that isnt as well bred and maybe out of an amateur horse could go a lot further than expected.

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This happens often but is usually due to good temperament, willingness from the horse and good training, if this temperament and training could be put into a physically more talented horse then Britain may stand a chance in international competition.

Another point is that British riders ride differently to German riders (who often ride German horses better!) so why are we trying to play catch up and using their bloodlines when we could be producing our own bloodlines for our riders to beat them!
 
I'm not saying this to anyone in particular.

But if i didn't do any breeding i wouldn't have-
Diesel
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JackJack and Laila
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Rusty
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Candy
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None of the above are registered or pure bred, but i don't think thy're rubbish. And the most important thing i love them like mad.
 
Tate - i didnt take it as a dig - sorry if you thought i did. Just stating a fact of probably why i did put Ebi in foal.
Yes - i trawled the net for stallions for weeks but for some reason kept coming back to the same stallion. Ebis breeder even called me and when i told her who she had gone to she said she couldntve thought of a better OH for her
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The horse certainly has to have a lot of scope/capability - whatever you want to call it and its got to love what it does. If it doesnt then it isnt going to go anywhere. For example: How many top bred race horses actually make top dollar races? how many of them are retired before they even get to race?
Yes British breeding could be a lot better. We have a lot of very good horses but we insist like you say using the GErman bloodlines -how many horse on the British team are out of such bloodlines and how many are British bloodlines?
 
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i want candy!! and whatever she is curled up with too please???

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Lol, yeh everyone says that when they see her, shes very unusual. That was one of her kittens from her litter she had a year ago. She had one litter and then was neutured (sp?), actually we had our last litter a few months back, all of the cats are now sterile.

We're only having lambs and foals from now on, lol
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TOTALLY agree with you. If your breeding for yourself (ie. keeping the outcome) then fine.

But it a serious peeve of mine that some people think a horse is no good at anything else, so hell, why not breed from it. AGHHH! It especially irritates me if the mare has an attitude / temperament problem which is why she's no good - great, why not pass that onto the foal? Then there'll be 2 useless horses.

I dont think the horse needs to have the best bloodlines etc. by any means. To be honest, if one of my horses (who has the best temperament & attitude and makes a superstar amateur horse) were a mare, Id have loved to have gotten a foal from "him" eventually. Simply because I think another horse like him would be brilliant, but then Id keep the result.
 
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