My first rant - breeding.

can see your point that a lame horse should be looked at to see if their conformational faults caused the lameness issue

but don't see why inexperienced people shouldn't breed
how will they ever get experienced....?????????????
 
inexperienced people are okay breeding if they think it through and have the right mare and the right stallion. Oh, and good advice from someone who knows what they're doing.
 
another point I'd like to make is that breeding will often not give you an identical horse (never obv. but you know what I mean!) and it might be better to buy a youngster and bring it on to be like him, or buy a similar horse!
 
What I can't understand is "Why do people call animals 'crap'?
They might not be the best example of their breeding and should probably never have been bred from but certainly not 'crap'.
 
I agree with you - maybe ive been very lucky. Ebi has produced a foal that is the spit of her when she was younger. She has the same attitude and is very forward. She has a loving nature, a cheeky character and personality and I really cant say I wanted anything more than that. When Ebi has to be PTS then Willow will always be Ebi no.2.
 
5ys ago I would have agreed with this whole heartedly but not anymore. I bought a mare that later turned out to be in-foal. Not in a million years would I have bred from this mare, she moved nice enough but her hind movement was a bit iffy. She was long backed (not such a big sin with a mare), she was ewe necked but this was probably due to bad riding/schooling. Her temperament was suspect as well, but again this was due to bad handling, not something I believe she was born with. It turned out that she was probably covered by some colt that was running with her. Anyway point is this 5yr old has the best temperament of any young pony I know, he is competing as a driving pony, but is 100% to ride. He has a better confirmation then his dam, but more importantly because he has been started correctly has a better attitude to life. I therefore feel that it is more important that the mare/stallion do not have hereditary faults. Temperament is all important, but how much of this has been shaped by humans?
This is him being started last year
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And his Dam
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Oooo this is a catagory I most definately fall in to.

My much loved mare went lame two years ago, and is now expecting her first foal.

She is a very average cob, bad tempered and with no history.

Can't wait!!!
 
do not get me started on this - and why is it people whos horses have something wrong with them (ie kissing spine) think its correct to breed from it????

drives me nuts
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With all due respect, even the best blood lines have been known to through odd balls! All you can do is try to reduce them, but just because a mare is lame, so long as this is not hereditary what is wrong with it?? If I had a nice 3yr old with good confirmation etc, I would/have bred from it. Because I dont start mine until they are 3. At 4.5yrs they can then come into work and if they are sucessful I am not pondering about whether they are going to be too old at 14 to have a 1st foal. I therefore found it very interesting to read in the Chilter rider the following "On the continent they breed from 3yr olds that do not necessarily go on to become riding horses. They know that a foal will inherit 75% of the mother's characteristics such as conformation, temperment & movement so they keep the best to breed from." Now you could argue that if a horse is not in work how can you tell if it would stay sound? I had a mare that graded 1 with the old HIS system. She had 2 fab foals, who had temperments to die for. This mare though was made difficult to ride because instead of listening to her, she had the crap beaten out of her. Why was she difficult, because she had suffered muscel damage & was in pain. Her previous owners did not understand that could be the reason, did not understand everytime they put a saddle on her they were causing her pain. So as I said already temperment can be man made. There are horses that should never be bred, but some of the worst moving horses ie paddle, dish etc are to be found on the race course, along with the worse confirmations. We can only try to limit the issues that could occur, but this is nature after all.
 
I have to say I do agree with you, particularly with the example you have given.

I am a both I'm afraid. I have my own registered breeding stallion and I have bred to our little pony, Cloud. She is totally sound and has as beautiful a nature as my stallion. This foal will never ever be on the open market; it will be with us forever, as will the mare and stallion. This foal is a total indulgence, spurred on by my daughter wanting a larger "Cloud". We have owned Cloud for 10 years and to be honest my daughter grew out of her at least a year or two ago, but she just won't give up on her and Cloud is always her first choice of horse here that she will ride.

Our stallion has bred two friends mares also as same thing there; they want a foal to keep for their family. I very much doubt any of these foals will leave the ownership into which they are going to be born. Again these foals are indulgences at their owners discretion.

And then I have my registered mare, who we hope has also been bred by him. If she hasn't then she will be bred this Spring and hopefully we will have a lovely coloured foal out of her. This foal has already been sold.....even though it may not even have been conceived yet, LOL!!

I know there is a good market for foals from my stallion however even with that my thoughts are to geld him at some point in time. He is a truly lovely stallion, incredibly quiet and not any trouble whatsoever, however there are issues with standing a stallion, in that you have to be careful which fields they go in and which fields abound the ones he is in. He never does anything ungentlemanly.......but the mares are a different story! They will stick their bums through the fencing and tease and tantalize the life out of him and although he won't mount them over the fence, I just won't want to take this risk in the years to come particularly as some of the mares/fillies here are seriously expensive WB's.......don't think their owners would be too thrilled if a little coloured foal came out of them when they are expecting a huge KWPN
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We've enjoyed our time with our stallion, I know he is one of the best bred and most docile stallions in our part of Canada but it is still not enough for me to leave him entire for his whole life. There are too many horses in the world, and part of me says there are too many rubbish ones, but of course we are all looking for something different, so who's place is it really to say what's good and what's not?

One thing I wholeheartedly agree with you on though, is I really don't understand all this breeding from lame and damaged mares with no proven history or standing and with debatable hereditary conformation issues.......particularly if the foal is destined to be sold.
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Two of my mares are unsound for want of a better word.
Nothing hereditary though.
Both were hugely successful as foals and youngstock and are out of tough sound head stud book graded mares who competed into there teens.
They are both beautifully bred ,one was kicked and fractured her knee the other ended up with a damaged neck when some prat with an uncontrollable horse careered into her terrifying (sp) her at a show causing her to go over backwards.
Neither was the mares faults and both have fantastic conformation , movements and temperaments.
I would not part with my mares and dont believe they should just stand as field ornaments they are too good for that.
So why shouldnt i breed from them , there offspring have proven to be sound with excellent temeraments.
I agree there is a lot of rubbish bred but just because a horse is "unsound" it doesnt mean they are useless and shouldnt be bred from.
I do think hereditary diseases are differant but it isnt always the mare that throws that.
 
I agree too, there are too many foals born without real thought. If you go to any local Horse market there are usually a fair number of weanlings entered, the breeders clearly only breed for money.
I bred from my mare who proved and proved herself at County level showing, Eventing, Showjumping and up to Med Dressage, she was the utter light of my life and I thought long and hard about breeding from her and spent ages visiting stallions, she was AI'd at home and produced a beautiful baby. Mabs was PTS in Sept 2005 and still massively missed, her son is the image of her, quite spookily in many ways, and it means she is still with me as he is also now the light of my life and will, as she did, stay with me for life.
 
temperment,soundness and being proven are the most important things in breeding personally.
i bred my mare and she produced a lovely foal last year.she is reg ISH,competed well(med dress and we did a few SJ and showing classes too), lovely temperment(a little sharp but never nasty) great conformation.she went lame due to a cut on her tendon sheath,she got infection and had a flush but she went lame 6 years later.had all scans done and the opinions of 3 vets at leahurst was she was breeding sound.
i cant understand how people breed unsound temperment mares-the mare has a huge influence on temperment,more than dad does.baby learns from mum.
one of my friends bought a gypsy cob type(not a good example) aged 3.she was in foal and they didnt know what to do.she foaled in a field with a ditch and the foal rolled in and died.the vet said it possibly had maladjustment.
 
The majority are with friends only about 3 kittens went to other homes, they still keep in contact. We advertise and get about 50 calls, but as is aid we're no longer breeding cats/dogs (only had 1 litter anyway of pups).

The puppies, we kept 2, our neighbour has 1, so see him everyday and the others are all in contact with us, plus we made sure they were good homes. One pup is in training to be an agility dog and is with some top people on the circuit, they go everywhere and take all of their dogs.
 
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