My first time driving 3.5T box + horse smashed partition! Help!

[mairi76]

Help H&H forum! I rented 3.5 tonne horsebox today - a Renault conversion with rear facing stalls - to take my 16.3 ISH to an arena hire. We got 5 minutes down the road, we turned from one road into another (quite a wide turn, in second gear, not super fast - I didn't think!) and I heard a crash bang wallop and looked in the camera monitor and could see that the partition was hanging off with a big pointy bit of metal dangerously near my horse's shoulder. I had to stop the lorry in the middle of traffic, put the hazards on and when I went into the back the partition was hanging off and my horse was covered in sweat and in a total state.

I am trying to work out what the hell happened. I know it's horses and of course unexpected things happen all the time but I'd like to take him out and about and need to make sure we can be safe and happy.

Some useful facts about him and some questions and a plea to all experienced horse transporters out there for some advice:

- He's a good traveller normally
- He recently moved yards and has been quite unsettled since he moved
- At his new yard they recently moved into the winter fields which he can see from his box - if he can't go out when the other horses are out this makes him whinny, box walk, sweat up and look like he's considering coming over the doors. This was the state he was in this morning before I boxed him up.
- He went into the box fine
- When we moved off I could see in the screen that he was throwing himself around a lot and turning around
- He finds it hard to balance on the RHS - he's cut his feet a few times travelling on the right in trailers before
- I put him on the RHS of the box - behind driver on box rental guy's suggestion - wonder if problem is balance issue?
- Does anyone travel their horses on the left/passenger side and is that a safe option to try out?
- I have driven regularly for the last few years but this was my first time driving a horsebox - I'm worried I may have been tackling the corners too fast and he couldn't balance and fell against the partition?
- Shouldn't the partition have been able to withstand a horse falling against it? Is it the horsebox rental company's fault for not having proper equipment?
- I've spoken to the yard manager about potentially moving him to a different box where he can't see the herds when they go out to see if that helps with his separation anxiety in general - anyone had success with this?

Any thoughts on what might have caused this situation and any advice for future travelling? Thoughts, anecdotes, pearls of wisdom all welcome

Thanks!

Mairi

 

[pootler]

Sorry to hear this, you must have found it terrifying. Do you know which conversion it was? I have heard of all sorts of incidents with 3.5t's but never where a horse has destroyed the partition. Interested to know the make of the horsebox.

 

[Tiddlypom]

First thought is that a 16.3hh will find many 3.5t boxes too small, especially if a partition is fitted. You say he's a good traveller, but then mention that he struggles on the rhs of trailers.

I would anticipate that you would be liable for the damage to the box, unless the partiton was clearly faulty.

 

[mairi76]

Thanks Tiddlypom - I meant that he bounces up he ramp and travels well when he's in a bigger box herringbone and is fine on LHS. But, I do take your point.

Is there a 2 horse box that a 16.3 would travel ok in?

And yes on the liability although when I very apologetically told the rental guy what happened he seemed very apologetic and seemed to be offering me a free rental for another day. We shall see...

 

[ycbm]

I had my new 3.5 made so that I could travel the horse right in the middle. One of them needs the partition very slanted so that his shoulders and quarters lean on it and his body is then straight down the middle. It is the only way he will settle. Yours may be similar?

I don't think that a partition should have broken from what you describe.

If it helps, this is how solid mine is:

TP I really can't imagine a 3.5 being too small for one big horse unless the partition is fixed in place, and even then it would have to be a very wide horse.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I wouldn't be putting a 16.3hh in a 2 stallions full stop. Let alone one that was already wound up and had never travelled backwards before.

 

[scats]

I have a Nissan interstar van conversion and I remove the partition. I only ever travel one horse (obviously, being no partition) and I always find they are so much happier with the extra room.

My 16hh ISH is probably the biggest I would put in it though.

 

[Orangehorse]

The stall was probably too narrow for him and he couldn't spread his legs wide enough.

We had a stocky pony that had always travelled perfectly in an unstalled trailer. Happy to buy a new trailer, put pony in to lots of banging and scrabling around. When investigating we realised that the trailer was "lightweight" suitable for a car - and narrowered than the previous one. Took the partition out and everything was fine.

 

[ycbm]

My 16hh ISH is probably the biggest I would put in it though.

Can I ask you why? I happily travel my 16.3 in mine, and he travels badly sideways in a bigger lorry. He loves going backwards.


Someone else on the forum with a7.5 had a 3.5 made to take a huge 18 hander who wouldn't fit in the big one.

 

[gallopingby]

Was this a conversion by the person hiring the box or a branded 3.5 one? The partition should be robust enough to support a horse leaning on it! If it had been me I would have driven the box minus horse for a short trip beforehand to see how it behaved, but maybe you did this? Some of the van type conversions aren't very stable or secure and I wouldn't be happy to use them they look very flimsy. I agree with the other comments I'd be wary of putting an already unsettled horse in a box on its own. I hope you can sort something out soon.

 

[scats]

Can I ask you why? I happily travel my 16.3 in mine, and he travels badly sideways in a bigger lorry. He loves going backwards.


Someone else on the forum with a7.5 had a 3.5 made to take a huge 18 hander who wouldn't fit in the big one.

Simply coz he looked huge in there. Perhaps it was coz I usually travel my 14hh, so he just looked enormous.

 

[Clannad48]

We have travelled our 17.3hh horse in a 3.5t hired lorry but one with an adjustable partition pushed almost all the way to one side so that she can have plenty of room to spread her legs. Mind you this was a branded lorry -not a conversion. I had to collect it several miles from where we keep the horse so got used to the way it handled before putting the horse in it. (I am used to driving bigger lorries so was cautious with a smaller vehicle)

 

[ROG]

Was the internal view on the monitor within the range of your eyesight when you were driving ?

OR

Did you access it after hearing the bang ?

 

[poiuytrewq]

Can I ask you why? I happily travel my 16.3 in mine, and he travels badly sideways in a bigger lorry. He loves going backwards.


Someone else on the forum with a7.5 had a 3.5 made to take a huge 18 hander who wouldn't fit in the big one.

Same. My 16.3 is fine in mine

 

[mairi76]

Sorry to hear this, you must have found it terrifying. Do you know which conversion it was? I have heard of all sorts of incidents with 3.5t's but never where a horse has destroyed the partition. Interested to know the make of the horsebox.

Thanks pootler. It was not the way I wanted my first driving attempt to go that's for sure! The only info I have is from the rental company but they are Renault vans that have been specially converted for the company. I don't know the name of the coachmaker that converted them. The partition looked quite flimsy when it was broken - the material that made up most of it was plastic over foam with metal bars on the top. Was a bit surprised when I saw it.

 

[mairi76]

Thanks! Really useful to see. I can see how this might be good for mine.

 

[blood_magik]

Can I ask you why? I happily travel my 16.3 in mine, and he travels badly sideways in a bigger lorry. He loves going backwards.


Someone else on the forum with a7.5 had a 3.5 made to take a huge 18 hander who wouldn't fit in the big one.

That's me.

Interesting how many people wouldn't travel anything bigger than 16hh in one - our smallest horse is 16.3hh and the biggest 18.3hh and they actually have a little too much room in ours (partition is fixed so I can only adjust the front end by approx 6in either way).

I think, unless you can spot an obvious fault/failure, you're going to have to take the hit on this one. Maybe check your contract (assuming you signed something when you hired it) to see whose responsibility it was to make sure the box was fit for purpose - ideally it will have been checked before you drove away in it.

Hope you manage to resolve things quickly.

ETA - my 17.3 and 18.3 both fit comfortably in my small box together.

 

[mairi76]

He had travelled backwards before - in the same type of horsebox about 6 weeks earlier to the yard and was absolutely fine. It was just my first time driving him myself. I usually get transport or a friend drives. He even travelled on the right. But in hindsight, maybe he was too wound up and I will definitely think twice in future.

 

[mairi76]

The stall was probably too narrow for him and he couldn't spread his legs wide enough.

We had a stocky pony that had always travelled perfectly in an unstalled trailer. Happy to buy a new trailer, put pony in to lots of banging and scrabling around. When investigating we realised that the trailer was "lightweight" suitable for a car - and narrowered than the previous one. Took the partition out and everything was fine.

I really hummed and hawed about how much space to leave him - the partition was adjustable - and I ended up erring on the side of less. I was wondering if that might have been part of the issue.

 

[mairi76]

Was this a conversion by the person hiring the box or a branded 3.5 one? The partition should be robust enough to support a horse leaning on it! If it had been me I would have driven the box minus horse for a short trip beforehand to see how it behaved, but maybe you did this? Some of the van type conversions aren't very stable or secure and I wouldn't be happy to use them they look very flimsy. I agree with the other comments I'd be wary of putting an already unsettled horse in a box on its own. I hope you can sort something out soon.

Conversion by people hiring box - or done for them. I drove 20 minutes back from rental to yard and thought the van handled really well but don't think the interiors were robust enough - clearly. I will definitely think twice before I take him anywhere unsettled. I am going to leave going out with him until I can sort out the issue of him being unsettled when separated from the herd.

 

[mairi76]

Was the internal view on the monitor within the range of your eyesight when you were driving ?

OR

Did you access it after hearing the bang ?

It was within my eyesight on the dashboard, although I was snatching glances at it because I was driving. When I was looking, I could see him twisting around and he looked like he was swaying more than I would have expected. I did see him sway into the partition at one point.

 

[mairi76]

I had to collect it several miles from where we keep the horse so got used to the way it handled before putting the horse in it. (I am used to driving bigger lorries so was cautious with a smaller vehicle)

How cautious are you about speed when you are driving horseboxes? For example, how slowly do you turn corners, go round roundabouts etc. What's the best way to do it so horses can balance?

 

[holeymoley]

I wouldn't expect a 3.5t to be suitable for carrying a 16.3h I'm afraid , no matter what they say on the 'tin'. If there was a situation where it had to be used for travelling a big horse then I would remove the partition.

 

[mairi76]

I wouldn't expect a 3.5t to be suitable for carrying a 16.3h I'm afraid , no matter what they say on the 'tin'. If there was a situation where it had to be used for travelling a big horse then I would remove the partition.

Could you elaborate? Is it a length thing? The payload was fine for his weight (650 kg). What would you travel them in?

Also, I had to remove the partition (I left it by the side of the road!!) to get him back to the yard safely and I could see on the monitor that he was turning horizontal to the direction of travel and back again - surely that can't be safe either?

 

[holeymoley]

Could you elaborate? Is it a length thing? The payload was fine for his weight (650 kg). What would you travel them in?

Also, I had to remove the partition (I left it by the side of the road!!) to get him back to the yard safely and I could see on the monitor that he was turning horizontal to the direction of travel and back again - surely that can't be safe either?

I have seen a few people putting 16h + in the van type convenrsions and it just doesn't look comfortable for the horse . Certainly with the partition I wouldn't be comfortable with a horse of that size having enough width to balance correctly . The height was a bit risky too. Perhaps if the horse was allowed to be at a diagonal angle with both spaces it may be slightly better but I wouldn't be putting anything over 15.3 and particular stocky in them. Just my personal views , maybe the 'proper' horsebox built 3.5t are more suitable but I've never really seen a horse in them in the flesh, only the van conversions.

Just think basil fawlty in his mini!

 

[Clannad48]

How cautious are you about speed when you are driving horseboxes? For example, how slowly do you turn corners, go round roundabouts etc. What's the best way to do it so horses can balance?

I'm very cautious having previously travelled a very nervous pony who would throw herself to the floor if she was off balance. To be honest I am other drivers worst nightmare if I have a horse or pony on board who does not travel well. You really have to anticipate every move you will be going to make, ie when heading towards traffic lights, junctions, roundabouts etc and be prepared for other road users and pedestrians for that fact to think that you can stop on a sixpence (that shows my age) I would rather hold up other traffic for a few minutes than risk the cargo I am carrying. Slow and steady is the way to go - take plenty of room on roundabouts and on corners My late father gave me the best driving advice ever "if you treat everyone else as an idiot who does not know how or when to use signals and has no idea where they are going then you should be fine". Now my seasoned traveller can be driven in a different manner as she leans into corners and takes everything in her stride. To be honest I think you have to be confident about your driving skills before you transport a pony or horse - sorry if that appears harsh but at the end of the day you are carrying a precious cargo.

Edited to add: My friend thought she she was a good driver of her lorry until one day someone went with her to a competition and was very concerned. A couple of weeks later she went with her friend to collect a lorry - her friend suggested (Yes ROG I know it's illegal) that she travel in the horse area to see what it felt like. My friend has never driven the same way again......

 

[ycbm]

I have seen a few people putting 16h + in the van type convenrsions and it just doesn't look comfortable for the horse . Certainly with the partition I wouldn't be comfortable with a horse of that size having enough width to balance correctly . The height was a bit risky too. Perhaps if the horse was allowed to be at a diagonal angle with both spaces it may be slightly better but I wouldn't be putting anything over 15.3 and particular stocky in them. Just my personal views , maybe the 'proper' horsebox built 3.5t are more suitable but I've never really seen a horse in them in the flesh, only the van conversions.

Just think basil fawlty in his mini!

My 3.5 Fiat Ducato white box van conversion has six inches more headroom (8 feet) than my 7.5, and with the partition as set in my picture, the width is much wider than the widest partition setting in a 7.5 that I have ever seen. I'd happily put an eighteen hander in mine, not that I ever expect to

 

[holeymoley]

My 3.5 Fiat Ducato white box van conversion has six inches more headroom (8 feet) than my 7.5, and with the partition as set in my picture, the width is much wider than the widest partition setting in a 7.5 that I have ever seen. I'd happily put an eighteen hander in mine, not that I ever expect to

Perhaps different vehicles bode better , I've only ever seen Renault and Peugeot conversions.

Maybe I just took a dislike to it as when I got shown it the woman opened the side ramp and I nearly lost an eye when the partition sprung out of place! Lethal thing that was.

 

[ROG]

It was within my eyesight on the dashboard, although I was snatching glances at it because I was driving. When I was looking, I could see him twisting around and he looked like he was swaying more than I would have expected. I did see him sway into the partition at one point.

Did you know that is illegal ?

 

[holeymoley]

Did you know that is illegal ?

What is illegal? Sorry a bit of a fuzzy Sunday morning for me