My horse bit me tonight

Birker2020

Birker2020

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I have a problem which is starting to upset me a great deal and make me feel uncomfortable. My horse tried to take a chunk out of my elbow tonight with his teeth when I groomed him by his withers. He's been like this the last 6 or so months, some days he's fine, other days he's really nasty. I've had him seven years and he's never been like this before.

I threw my grooming mitt and body brush at him whilst shouting at him, he looked quite alarmed and stood as far away from me as possible (was tied up at time) with the eyes rolling and looking very apologetic. I made up with him before I went home as he was good to ride, but it really upsets me why he's doing this. It coincides with around the time he did his suspensory ligament on his front leg, but my physio saw him Sunday just gone, and couldn't find any problem areas which would cause such a reaction. He's normally worse when he's not got a hay net (presumably because he's not occupied at this point with food) but tonight he had a net. Some days he's a lot better than others, some days I get no reaction at all.

I brush him the same way as I've always brushed him with the same action and same brush as I've used for the last seven years! Just out of interest I tried a softer brush which I've been using for about the last two months now, but it makes no difference. I though he might have gastric ulcers so I've been treating him with various supplements, change of regime since mid November, has helped a little but not to any great extent as tonight proved!

The only thing I can think is that he plays a lot with the youngster in the paddock next door over the fence, they bite each others heads and necks. Do you think he's doing this as an automatic response to me brushing him? I am quite happy to let him play, as they are good friends and it is good for him to have company (he is turned out on his own and has been for 3 years or so now).

I feel something is wrong with him - any time a horse changes character or acts out of character it is nearly always because they are trying to tell us there is a problem. He is 15 in April and has always been such a good tempered horse, that has never bitten/kicked out/nasty. You could swing from his belly whilst he's eating his tea and he wouldn't care, and people walk their horses behind him, and literally brush past his bum and he never flinches.

What do you guys think??? I want to help him but cannot afford to spend hundred getting things investigated unless I am 100% certain, a scoping is likely to cost over £200 and its out of the question at the moment.
 
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I'm pretty sure that horses that are touchy around the withers can have issues with their bladder and kidneys..just sort of need a detoxing.. That's what vet found with my mums grumpy mare..
 
Could be as simple as a strained or sore muscle - one of my horses is very touchy sometimes, when has been leaping and galloping around field beforehand! But if physio didn't find anything wrong, then may not be that. Could try a bach flower remedy, as can help with behaviourial issues....?
 
lizzi2 said:
Could be as simple as a strained or sore muscle - one of my horses is very touchy sometimes, when has been leaping and galloping around field beforehand! But if physio didn't find anything wrong, then may not be that. Could try a bach flower remedy, as can help with behaviourial issues....?
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Thanks for the Bach flower idea, I have used that in the past but without much success on myself - Rescue Remedy for competition nerves. Nevertheless I might just give that a go, can't really do any harm I know.

Ginger Bear, its normally his neck that he's touchy, never normally funny about anywhere else other than around off hind inside thigh.

Its really upsetting me, I am in tears now typing this.
 
Around the withers isn't an area that should be affected by ulcers so I think you can discount that.

Bruising etc from playing rough could maybe explain once or twice, but not it going on for 6 months & if there was a long term problem I'd have expected the physio to have found it.

Maybe it's remembered pain from when he hurt himself, that would maybe tie up with why he's less likely to do it when he's distracted.

To be honest I'd be explaining to him in very little words that this is not acceptable. You've had him checked over & nothing was found. He doesn't do it all the time which makes me think it's not something that bothers him that much. He can tell the difference between you & another horse!!!! It may be that he's bossing the youngster & is trying to do the same to you, but if that's the case it's even more important that you stamp on this behaviour before it escalates. If he were mine he'd get a sharp "no", furious body language, an instant slap across the muzzle &, since I handle mine loose in the stable, chased to the back of the box until I decided he looked sorry enough to be allowed back!
 
A common and often overlooked reason for pain around the withers is rugs! A heavyweight rug, especially a wet one, can weigh a lot and can cause pain and - eventually - ulcerated areas on the withers. Your horse may not be as far as open sores but it's still worth thinking about. It would certainly fit with the apparent randomness of the pain.

If it was me, I'd give your horse the benefit of the doubt. 99% of behavioural changes are pain related. And if you chuck your grooming brush at him and scream at him then you're going to frighten the life out of him and he will start to lose his trust in you. I'd not groom his withers until you've got to the bottom of it and, if anything, you need to be MORE reassuring to him, not less. He needs you on his side right now - he can't speak English so he's telling you in the only way open to him that something's wrong. I wouldn't worry about gelding "boy games" too much. I'd investigate the rug. A friend of mine had an Arab gelding with high withers and his rugs started to first rub his mane away, then the ordinary coat, then the skin! He improved the situation by sewing a big rectangle of thick sheepskin over the wither part of the rug (but be careful with seams). I've heard of other owners who cut the rug back to allow it to miss the withers altogether. Be inventive! Good luck x
 
When was the last time you had his teeth checked? If you've eliminated everything else I'd consider consulting an equine dentist as it could be related. Try not to chuck the brush at him if he does this again - clearly there's something going on or that has changed. It could be as simple as he's enjoying being groomed and trying to groom you back (like horses do when they bite at each others withers) - especially if he's learnt this behaviour with the youngsters now around - as previously mentioned. Also what about looking at a skin irritation? Does he actually take a chunk out of you when this happens or just whips around and connects but doesn't bite?
 
Hello

I believe that when a horse is behaving out of character it is normally related to pain. You said he had a suspensory Injury a while back, sometimes the horse will compensate throught different connective tissues, which then results in secondary problems. It could also be a result of injury from playing with the younger horses. If your vet or phsio can not see anything wrong, then it maybe worth considering different techniques such as Thermal Imaging - this can detect a diference in body temperature which can help diagnose injuries. Heres a link to one that covers the uk. http://www.veterinary-thermal-imagi...-thermography/equine-infrared-thermal-imaging :)
 
I would 2nd BOF and say look carefully at your rugs. One of my girls gets this on occasion, and she would 'have' you if you go anywhere near her withers. It has improved now she no longer has a neck cover - less pressure I think.
 
Are you sure the bite was meant in a "p*ss off" fashion and not a painful "groom me"

Horses don't have much concept of human skin and if enthusiastic grooming, it can be very painful

If it was a definite "p*ss off"

I'd nip down to your nearest pound shop, buy two big car sponges (often in a pack of 3!) and afix to the inside of your rug (gaffer tape should work if dry), either side of the wither to relieve the pressure

If the behaviour stops, you need to buy a new rug

Combos and half necks are dreadful for pressure on the wither
 
I would agree with most of the above. Check rugs etc etc. Also it's possible your horse could still think it's going to hurt on his wither from when he had suspensory issues. the horse wouldn't have been moving correctly to compensate for the suspensory pain and therefore, could have had a sore wither at the time. So it's possible he still thinks it's going to hurt...Not necessarily the issue but I guess something to consider. Especially as it seems to be more of a problem when the horse is aware you are touching it. I.e. when not having a net.
 
Ifhysio isn't finding anything then I'm afraid to say if it were one of mins it would have gotten leathered.

I had to 'explain' to my mare in the beginning about the rules and manners I expect when it comes to biting, she bit me a cracker the second week I had her, was grooming her and bang my upper arm got munched. She's never done it since to me will pull a face but never opens her mouth.

If there is nothing wrong with him then he needs put in his place big style.
 
Put him on bute for 10 days, if his mood and behavior changes look for a pain induced cause, if not ,look for a behavioral problem. (my bet is on a pain induced problem)
 
Mine has a go from time to time, if he's feeling crotchety, after all we all have our bad days,I've been covered with nips & OH often makes comments about odd-shaped bruises, so I've taken to 'biting' horse back. Much as a couple of horses playing together would, the more dominant one bites the other at the top of his foreleg. So when horse goes to bite I grab a piece of him, first if possible & he always looks suprised & backs off. Follow it with a rub on his forehead to show you're the boss. Of course keep looking for the cause of the problem.
 
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