My horse has a hard crest- :-(

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Kelly1980

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My 20 year old is getting cresty, could someone advise me what to do please? I have been exercising her more since I noticed and I would like to cut down sugars/starch in her feed, she is currently having eggersmann's senior musli (German feed)

Ingredients:

barley (flaked)37,5 %
maize (flaked)30,7 %
peas (flaked)6,3 %
sugar cane molasses4,2 %
oat bran3,6 %
wheat bran3,4 %
lucerne hay (dried)3,1 %
lucern green meal2,3 %
calcium carbonate2,0 %
carob2,0 %
sugarbeet pulp pellets1,4 %
dicalcium phosphate1,2 %
sodium chloride0,6 %
fermented extract (EMH)0,6 %
magnesium oxide0,2 %
maize0,2 %

Level of ingredients-

Crude protein10,00 %
Crude fat2,20 %
Crude fibre5,90 %
Crude ash7,30 %
Calcium1,30 %
Phosphorus0,50 %
Sodium0,30 %
Magnesium0,25 %

The website for the food I use is:

http://uk.eggersmann.info/432_/emh_senior_muesli.html

My question is, is this feed ok? She has 500g in morning and 500g in the evening. I ride twice a week for about a hour (walking, cantering, she won't trot with someone on her back) and I round pen her twice a week for 10 mins (trotting, cantering) I have just started doing this, she was only ridden twice a week for about 30 mins before.

She has hay also, no grass as yet as fields are not ready.

Sorry for all the questions but I would like to know what I'm doing is right or should I be doing something else?
 
That feed looks to be extremely high in sugars and starch and certainly not suitable for something that is cresty, although she is not getting a lot it could still be enough to tip her over into laminitis, especially once some grass does come through.

I would cut it out completely, replace if you have to with something unmolassed, high fibre with a supplement or a simple low calorie balancer, soak all of the hay for 12 hours and increase the exercise if you can, there may look as if there is no grass but there will be some growing they just eat it before you can really see the difference which is why it is such a high risk time.
 
You want low sugar, low starch - nothing with cereals in!!!

To be honest, a cresty horse wouldn't get any hard feed from me, just soaked hay if still required or restricted/strip grazing, plus regular exercise.

Not all cresty horses have ems/cushings but may be worth a test. If you don't change your feed regime then ems/cushings/lami will likely be an end result once the grass is really through!!
 
Kelly1980 said:
My 20 year old is getting cresty, could someone advise me what to do please? I have been exercising her more since I noticed and I would like to cut down sugars/starch in her feed, she is currently having eggersmann's senior musli (German feed)

Ingredients:

barley (flaked)37,5 %
maize (flaked)30,7 %
peas (flaked)6,3 %
sugar cane molasses4,2 %
oat bran3,6 %
wheat bran3,4 %
lucerne hay (dried)3,1 %
lucern green meal2,3 %
calcium carbonate2,0 %
carob2,0 %
sugarbeet pulp pellets1,4 %
dicalcium phosphate1,2 %
sodium chloride0,6 %
fermented extract (EMH)0,6 %
magnesium oxide0,2 %
maize0,2 %

Level of ingredients-

Crude protein10,00 %
Crude fat2,20 %
Crude fibre5,90 %
Crude ash7,30 %
Calcium1,30 %
Phosphorus0,50 %
Sodium0,30 %
Magnesium0,25 %

The website for the food I use is:

http://uk.eggersmann.info/432_/emh_senior_muesli.html

My question is, is this feed ok? She has 500g in morning and 500g in the evening. I ride twice a week for about a hour (walking, cantering, she won't trot with someone on her back) and I round pen her twice a week for 10 mins (trotting, cantering) I have just started doing this, she was only ridden twice a week for about 30 mins before.

She has hay also, no grass as yet as fields are not ready.

Sorry for all the questions but I would like to know what I'm doing is right or should I be doing something else?
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I would soak her hay (fresh water each time), drop that feed and feed a decent (high spec) balancer and possibly add extra magnesium and salt in a low cal carrier. As she is off grass I would also add micronised linseed.
 
Not forgetting EMS and insulin resistance are not really treatable, but just about manageable. Once they get laminitis associated with thus and/or Cushing's syndrome, the game is pretty much up unless you are very lucky.
 
brighteyes said:
Not forgetting EMS and insulin resistance are not really treatable, but just about manageable. Once they get laminitis associated with thus and/or Cushing's syndrome, the game is pretty much up unless you are very lucky.
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I don't think the prognosis following laminitis is as gloom and doom as that these days. There are thousands of horses with metabolic disorders, post laminitis, going on to live happy, 'useful' lives with the right diet, management, treatment (where needed) and good hoof care.
 
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Thank you everyone, I'm looking for a brand of food that will be better for her now. I'm also going to call the vet in so she can check her over. She is my baby and would never forgive myself if anything happened. She also has stiff joints on her hind legs and I have been giving her T.E.N.S senior joints supplement for the past couple of weeks that has helped loads and she has so much more energy and she now acts like a 7 year old.
 
A suitable diet would be Alfa A, a good balancer, her usual joint supplement and hay. She doesn't need all those cereals that she's having.

It would be wise to get her diet sorted out now before any metabolic problems begin. I speak with the benefit of hindsight.
4fvgdaq_th.gif
I left it too late with my gelding but we're paying for it now.
 
flojo said:
A suitable diet would be Alfa A, a good balancer, her usual joint supplement and hay. She doesn't need all those cereals that she's having.

It would be wise to get her diet sorted out now before any metabolic problems begin. I speak with the benefit of hindsight.
4fvgdaq_th.gif
I left it too late with my gelding but we're paying for it now.
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Even Alfa-A and balancers have higher calories than ideally you want for a fatty. A straw-based chaff rather than alfalfa-based, and a powder supplement rather than balancer, is much more preferable, if something has to be given. Aim to feed at between 1.5 and 1.8% bodyweight for controlled weight loss.
 
khalswitz said:
Even Alfa-A and balancers have higher calories than ideally you want for a fatty. A straw-based chaff rather than alfalfa-based, and a powder supplement rather than balancer, is much more preferable, if something has to be given. Aim to feed at between 1.5 and 1.8% bodyweight for controlled weight loss.
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Do you mean a powdered balancer by supplement?
 
amandap said:
Do you mean a powdered balancer by supplement?
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Yes, a broad spectrum vit and min powder supplement rather than a pelleted balancer. Pelleted balancers are more calorific, containing high levels of essential amino acids, which you're not going to be worrying too much about with a very overweight horse. Once the weight is lost and a maintenance diet is being established, a balancer could be a good choice, but during weight loss regimes they aren't as good an option as a powdered vit and min supp.
 
khalswitz said:
Even Alfa-A and balancers have higher calories than ideally you want for a fatty. A straw-based chaff rather than alfalfa-based, and a powder supplement rather than balancer, is much more preferable, if something has to be given. Aim to feed at between 1.5 and 1.8% bodyweight for controlled weight loss.
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This. And soak her hay.

P
 
I'm so glad I asked on here, I have a much better idea on what to feed her now. I'm in Germany and can not read or speak German so it's so hard to pick a brand of food, I have to use my translator so I will be shopping most of the day. She is not fat (yet) I can feel her ribs, her bum is flat (not Apple shaped) but if I don't do something now she will be. I wish I knew how to post photos on here.
 
Serious question to the posters who have advised, so not having a go at the OP who clearly has her reasons!

But why would anyone be feeding an obese horse any hard feed at all? Is that because there is a shortage of good grass and fodder?

Whenever I hear a question about obesity, I am reminded of what someone said to me a long time ago -- "There were not many fat people in Belsen", which we have to admit is true, if hard. If any of my Highlands starts to go over weight (as they do), it is put behind an electric fence and probably put (gradually) onto a diet of good barley straw. All have access to minerals 24/7. So far, I haven't needed to feed any supplements or additives and they all do well, even pregnant mares. Normally, they just have good grass, hay, or haylage. But maybe that's because they are Highlands?

I'm feeling a mean and neglectful owner now!

Edited to say, are these supplements necessary because the horses are in work? That I can understand! Mine aren't.
 
Dry Rot said:
Serious question to the posters who have advised, so not having a go at the OP who clearly has her reasons!

But why would anyone be feeding an obese horse any hard feed at all? Is that because there is a shortage of good grass and fodder?

Whenever I hear a question about obesity, I am reminded of what someone said to me a long time ago -- "There were not many fat people in Belsen", which we have to admit is true, if hard. If any of my Highlands starts to go over weight (as they do), it is put behind an electric fence and probably put (gradually) onto a diet of good barley straw. All have access to minerals 24/7. So far, I haven't needed to feed any supplements or additives and they all do well, even pregnant mares. Normally, they just have good grass, hay, or haylage. But maybe that's because they are Highlands?

I'm feeling a mean and neglectful owner now!

Edited to say, are these supplements necessary because the horses are in work? That I can understand! Mine aren't.
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My first post did say I wouldn't feed a fatty any hard feed if on grass. However if on soaked hay alone, you lose a lot of the vits and mins... I usually still prefer a non-molassed mineral block than offering hard feed in order to feed a supp, but a handful of straw chaff with a powder vit and min supp does a similar job and is very low calorie.

Equally if on very overgrazed, poor or highly restricted grazing for a long period of time you would be sensible to ensure adequate vit and min supply, as this won't necessarily be being met on very poor grass/ground etc. remember that weight loss has to be controlled, and dietary needs met, just calorie content cut.
 
khalswitz said:
My first post did say I wouldn't feed a fatty any hard feed if on grass. However if on soaked hay alone, you lose a lot of the vits and mins... I usually still prefer a non-molassed mineral block than offering hard feed in order to feed a supp, but a handful of straw chaff with a powder vit and min supp does a similar job and is very low calorie.

Equally if on very overgrazed, poor or highly restricted grazing for a long period of time you would be sensible to ensure adequate vit and min supply, as this won't necessarily be being met on very poor grass/ground etc. remember that weight loss has to be controlled, and dietary needs met, just calorie content cut.
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Thanks. That sounds sensible and I now understand. I have my own land and make my own hay so do not encounter those problems.
 
Dry Rot said:
Serious question to the posters who have advised, so not having a go at the OP who clearly has her reasons!

But why would anyone be feeding an obese horse any hard feed at all? Is that because there is a shortage of good grass and fodder?

Whenever I hear a question about obesity, I am reminded of what someone said to me a long time ago -- "There were not many fat people in Belsen", which we have to admit is true, if hard. If any of my Highlands starts to go over weight (as they do), it is put behind an electric fence and probably put (gradually) onto a diet of good barley straw. All have access to minerals 24/7. So far, I haven't needed to feed any supplements or additives and they all do well, even pregnant mares. Normally, they just have good grass, hay, or haylage. But maybe that's because they are Highlands?

I'm feeling a mean and neglectful owner now!

Edited to say, are these supplements necessary because the horses are in work? That I can understand! Mine aren't.
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Do you think grass and hay even un soaked has all the minerals etc. a horse requires? Feeding a plain carrier such as Speedibeet is needed if you feed a powder balancer as I do, I tend to forget about pelleted ones, which can be fed alone, as I no longer use them.
All horses require minerals and vitamins in enough quantity and acceptable ratio for body systems to function properly, they do not add calories in themselves so finding a low cal way of supplementing them is important for fat or IR horses. Tbh even pelleted balancers wont add that many calories in the scheme of things. Many compound feeds are another matter and often have to be fed at high levels to get recommended mins and vits.
Magnesium can help with insulin sensitivity and feeding extra can help with fat pads but a diagnosis is key here.

Starving horses is counter productive so a low cal forage is needed. I believe ops horse isn't obese but starving also causes behavioural and gut problems. I realize you are not saying that DR.

I do wonder if those starved in Belsen were fit and healthy?
 
She is not overweight yet, she is just a bit bigger than she was. I have got the name of a fab feed off someone and it will be perfect :-) so I can now address the issue before it gets worse, their is no grass where she is so that's why I gave her hard feed over winter it also gets very cold here and she is not the youngest of horses.....I actually live in Belsen too haha thank you all for your help. I hated asking questions at the yard even though they are all friendly.
 
Dengie hi fi molasses free and a lite balancer ( topspec or spillers), soak hay for minimum 6 hours, add linseed for hooves and coat and weight gain ( may not need this yet), keep an eye on her stride, make sure it doesnt become short and pottery. EMS/IR and PPID can be managed for several years quite successfully.
 
You absolutely need to stop feeding this horse hard feed. And if it is possible you should increase her workload too in order to get her weight down.

I know that when you treat a horse like a human there is an urge to assume they are hungry and feed them all sorts of exciting things. However, they are animals, and there is an increasing equine obesity problem. I am sure that many of the horse people with fat horses would not let themselves or their children get fat, so why feed up your horse until it gets fat?

Native type horses in no or light work generally do not require hard feed. They are simply not using enough energy to justify putting in all that energy in the form of hard feeds.

To put it into perspective my intermediate WB eventer (who is a good doer) was in full work from January, lived out all winter in one rug and had ad lib hay until the end of Feb. He only started getting hard feed at the end of January. He was on half a scoop until the beginning of February. He is now up to two scoops a day of mix but he is as fit as a racehorse and has a very heavy workload.

If for some reason he had to take time off he would get no hard feed and just hay/grass. If you want to feed vitamins use a powdered supplement in a handful of Hi Fi Lite (or equivalent low content unmolassed chaff).

I know this may sound harsh, but it is extremely unfair to let a horse get overweight. They get metabolic disorders and horses are so much happier and energetic on the lean side.

Best of luck and I hope you get her weight under control :)
 
Treat this horse as you would a lamanitic, it's probably IR, and will probably develop cushings. Needs a better diet and as much exercise as you can manage.
Lifestyle change basically.
 
brighteyes said:
Not forgetting EMS and insulin resistance are not really treatable, but just about manageable. Once they get laminitis associated with thus and/or Cushing's syndrome, the game is pretty much up unless you are very lucky.
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If you can get them off grass and ensure they move alot, it need not be the end. Lifestyle change is whats required.
 
khalswitz said:
Even Alfa-A and balancers have higher calories than ideally you want for a fatty. A straw-based chaff rather than alfalfa-based, and a powder supplement rather than balancer, is much more preferable, if something has to be given. Aim to feed at between 1.5 and 1.8% bodyweight for controlled weight loss.
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Lucerne (Alfalfa) is lower in sugar than many grass hays/chaffs and is suitable for laminitics and horses with metabolic problems. And although powder balancers have slightly fewer calories than pelleted ones many horses (my own included) don't like the taste. A balancer can be in powder form (In The Pink Powder' for example), they are not all pelleted.
 
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