my horse has been stolen and sold by phoney new owner

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josiemead

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right, today i found out that the potential buyer and woman i never trusted has stolen my horse and sold her on twice without a passport. now she's about 2 hours away and she's been tracked down.
we were selling our horse to this girl for £400, but letting her take over care while she paid us off. it quickly became apparent she wasnt financially stable but she kept promising to pay it off so we gave her the benefit of the doubt.
now she's been sold on to another person, who then sold her on again- but she hasn't been paid for or insured and the potential new owner doesn't possess the passport, we do. literally this girl has stolen my horse and sold her on illegally, as has the second owner, and there are also thousands of pounds worth of vets fees outstanding
we're taking action tomorrow, but who do we contact? the police? 111? RSPCA? trading standards?
thanks for your help in this rough time..
 
I doubt the second subsequent owner knew about how the first obtained your horse, although I agree they shouldn't sell a horse without a passport (are you sure they haven't applied for a new passport with a different PIO?).

Do you have a written agreement with the first buyer? Some proof that you still legally own the mare? I believe passports, bizarrely, are not proof of ownership!
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Who accrued the vet fees? The girl you sold to? That's not your debt I assume?

Shame you didn't listen to your instinct in agreeing to sell your horse to someone you never trusted in the first place.

I had a similar experience to you. If you contact the current owner, all guns blazing, you are also forewarning them that you will seeking to contact trading standards etc etc. In my case, my ex-horse was moved on again in the 9 hours it took from me making the call to TS turning up to check he was the horse I said he was. If I could have my time over, I wouldn't have let the then current owner know my intentions.

She claimed to not know who she'd sold him to, that day, or have any idea of what area they were living in.
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Sorry but confused.com
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Who has the horse now??
Do you stand to pick up the large vet bill then, as she is legally yours

Not usaully quite this thick, but your post is not very clear, unless i've had too much wine
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Oh and HELLO
 
You need a good solicitor hun. If you're a member of eg BHS, they give legal advice. Trading Standards won't want to know as it's nothing to do with a trading business. Doubt if the police will want to know either tbh, especially if you have nothing in writing anywhere. RSPCA won't get involved unless it's a welfare issue. Sorry to say it but these sound like pretty informal arrangements that you made. Did you have a loan agreement in place? Anything in writing at all eg agreements/signatures? How much does this woman still owe you? How come you still have the passport when the horse was no longer resident with you? It should have gone with the horse. All sounds, sadly, far too sloppily thought through, especially if you didn't trust the woman in the first place. Why on earth did you let the horse go???? Good luck in sorting it all out.
 
I'm guessing the police would be a good start. Have you got a written agreement with the person you were selling the horse to? I hope if you do that it mentions them not paying in full.

Its not the current owner's fault though. Poor horse to have to be passed from home to home like this.
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Hi freakyfilly,

Sounds like, sadly, your mare is in hands of gyppoes. I really don't know what you can do, as police are total crap!

I go with Box_of_Frogs' advice, + wish you well, BS x
 
Assuming you are in England then you need to go to your local Police & they should accept the report & carry out the enquiry. Tell them exactly what has happened & if you know where the horse is tell them. Once the ownership of the horse is in question they will serve a notice on the current owner under Section 66 of the Police & Criminal Evidence Act. This will inform them not to dispose of the horse in any way & that if they do they will be guilty of a criminal offence. The enquiry will then commence & hopefully come to a good conclusion for you.

For your information the current 'owner' of the horse will more than likely have to return the horse to you & they will lose their money & have to claim it back from the person who 'sold' it to them. The ownership title will remain with you.

There is little point going on further in what should happen because if you are not in England, Wales or Northern Ireland it will not be correct.
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Brandysnap & Box of Frogs....what do you think a solicitor is going to do? He isn't going to reclaim the horse? He isn't going to arrest anyone? He'll write some nicely worded letters that will be ignored & charge you for doing it. The horse will not be recovered & will disappear as a solicitor has no power to prevent it happening
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But police won't do bugger all, will they, Toby? Just doesn't happen.

Us lot need to network, sod section 66, etc.

Right, friends, we got a stolen horse. Spread the word.

If you want your horse returned, freakyfilly -

put some pics here, + details of breed, colour, height, sex, markings, age, temperament, etc, etc.

Is she freeze-marked?

Micro-chipped?

Put details everywhere! Local press/national press/Jeremy Vine/Newsnight.

And on Internet site where you probably advertised her (guessing now.). There's a lot of tracking down of this woman, which can be done via this forum, if you give us all details.

Hope we all help, all bests, BS x
 
Agree with Toby totally, RSPCA won't get involved unless animal welfare is the issue, the police are who you need to contact, give them all the information and details of where the horse is now (if you have that info), then leave it in their hands, you could try trading standards aswell because of the passport issue, (it is illegal to sell a horse without a passport).
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like, sadly, your mare is in hands of gyppoes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did you get that from what the OP said??? Totally uncalled for (and I think you mean 'gypos' in case you want to offend anyone in the future).

OP I am really sorry for your situation, hope you can sort this out.
 
Brandysnap the Police won't do anything because they won't know about it will they because you don't want to tell them. You are pre judging & I think wrongly.

Assuming you track down the person......then what are you going to do?........ form a posse?
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Track down the persons responsible by all means but then what will happen? You'll probably end up in trouble yourself for committing offences offences when you try & recover a horse from someone who has, in their mind purchased it lawfully.

This needs to be reported to the police, you need the law on your side, to go it alone is a ridiculous course of action to take. You are advocating a irresponsible course of action.
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A similar thing happened to me some years ago. The Barsteward who loaned my horse from me sold him on.
I tried police, solicitors etc but to no avail. I had a contract for the loan but apparently it was not watertight. All I was advised to do was go through the small claims court, which, at that time I could not afford.
One day I will get even.
 
[ QUOTE ]
But police won't do bugger all, will they, Toby? Just doesn't happen.

Us lot need to network, sod section 66, etc.

Right, friends, we got a stolen horse. Spread the word.

If you want your horse returned, freakyfilly -

put some pics here, + details of breed, colour, height, sex, markings, age, temperament, etc, etc.

Is she freeze-marked?

Micro-chipped?

Put details everywhere! Local press/national press/Jeremy Vine/Newsnight.

And on Internet site where you probably advertised her (guessing now.). There's a lot of tracking down of this woman, which can be done via this forum, if you give us all details.

Hope we all help, all bests, BS x

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes the Police WILL do bugger all, comments like that really make me fume - if you don't rate them, don't bother calling them when you need them!!
Best thing I can suggest is write everything down that you know, names, dates etc while it's all fresh in your mind, and go down to your local station, and take it from there. Things won't be instant, but at the end of the day, it's a theft. not a straight forward one, granted. Hope it all works out for you + your horse, best wishes are with you, and that horse is currently being cared for - good luck
 
well this happened to a friend of mine and the police did bugger all. As for going and taking your horse back my friend was warned they would be commiting an offence. My friend did end up with her horse back, only after she bought it back.
 
No offence intended, it just really rankles when people start slating the Police when they have no idea of all the processes they have to go through - yet always the first people they call when they need help! Anyway, off topic. It's an evil situation to find yourself in, I think personally i'd be rushing off to fetch my horse, and deal with the consequences, but obviously that again isn't ideal the 3rd person may well have bought the horse in good faith, despite the fact I would imagine you would still be classed as the legal owner, it's all going to hang on proving it, it sounds a desperate situation to find yourself in, fingers crossed it works out for the best all roud, but also feel sorry for whoever's bought the poor horse :-(
 
The horse remains your property and under law whoever has it must return it to you even if they have proof of purchase.

The onus is on you to prove the horse is your property. You will also have to be able to identify the horse as being yours.

Report the theft to the police and ask for an incident number so that you know it has been logged in to their system.

If the police decide they are unable to take action then you will need to consult a specialist equine solicitor and instruct them to take action against the person that bought the horse.

Before loaning a horse always have it freezemarked on it's shoulder so that it can be seen when being ridden and also have it micro-chipped. This makes it easy to identify it and prove ownership.

Also always ask to see an original copy of the proposed lonees passport, driving licensce, rates bill and electricity bill and photocopy them so that you know exactly who they are and where they live.
 
This morning I posted the email address of some people who have plenty of experience in situations like this, and who will be able to guide you through what you need to do.
 
[ QUOTE ]
right, today i found out that the potential buyer and woman i never trusted has stolen my horse and sold her on twice without a passport. now she's about 2 hours away and she's been tracked down.
we were selling our horse to this girl for £400, but letting her take over care while she paid us off. it quickly became apparent she wasnt financially stable but she kept promising to pay it off so we gave her the benefit of the doubt.
now she's been sold on to another person, who then sold her on again- but she hasn't been paid for or insured and the potential new owner doesn't possess the passport, we do. literally this girl has stolen my horse and sold her on illegally, as has the second owner, and there are also thousands of pounds worth of vets fees outstanding
we're taking action tomorrow, but who do we contact? the police? 111? RSPCA? trading standards?
thanks for your help in this rough time..

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi all,
Just to clarify background, + clarify that it's not my horse which has been stolen! Please let's return to freakyfilly's problem + try + help, please? My own experience may help.

Re comments about police: my own experiences with them have been extremely negative when i've reported a crime, so i don't bother any more.

One example - my car was stolen, policeman pulled driver up, who produced receipt of purchase from thief, so was allowed to keep my car! Eh? No documents, nothing. When i said a bit, police invited me in to their canteen, bought me a cup of coffee, + said 'it's much better doing it this way than by formal complaint'. I was younger + dafter then....

Then insurance company wouldn't pay (NFU), as they said car wasn't stolen...(it was reported stolen by me, + i never saw her again, but police cocked up)
After a load of hassle, NFU had to pay up for the value of computer discs which were in the car. (Which were actually worth more than my £400 Ford)

And the experience i had with police when my Mum died suddenly just begs belief. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Sorry to get off topic, let's return to stolen horse (+ what police are doing about it?).

I don't think they will do anything, freakyfilly, i firmly believe it's up to us lot to spread the word in our horsey community, + for us to find her. So please send pics + details to all horsey outlets. I'll do my best to help, + am sure others will also. BS x
 
"My" "personal" experience of the police has been that they are crap, but it's all been done on here before, and apparently because "my" "personal" experience of the police has been crap it was said that I am some sort of sad pervert,
anyway not going to go down that road.

If the Police aren't interested in helping you then you may as well go and fetch "your" horse back, if that is an offence then it's no different from the original person stelaing it except it's actually "yours" who the police aren't interesed in so they wont be interested in you taking it back, cant have it both ways, it's either an offence for both or neither party.
 
Hi again freakyfilly,
There's an article in this week's Chester Chronicle (www.chesterchronicle.co.uk), pg 9, headlined 'Database helps to track horse'. by Naomi Dunning.
Similar story to yours. Owner put details on Horsewatch Alliance website after she couldn't contact 'loaner'. Thankfully gelding in this case was sold by 'loaner' to responsible riding school, whose proprietor checked with National Equine Database re his passport, + were refused, as he already had one, so riding centre contacted real owner from details she'd put on Horsewatch Alliance website.
(Seems, yet again, police did bugger all, surprise, surprise?
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)
Really hoping info about Chester Chronicle helps you. Can't imagine how it feels, just hope we all join forces to get her back, love BS x
 
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