My horse is crippled from NB shoeing!

SNORKEY

SNORKEY

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Hi, my horse has had on and off lameness for a few months, he had X-rays the other day and they couldn't find anything but thought it was because his feet are so flat and on his heels.
The vet recommended natural balance shoeing and my farrier came out Thursday lunch time.
My horse has been crippled since and can barley walk, I feel so sorry for him.
The farrier said he may be footy for 24hrs as he cut them right back but this seems a bit much.
Has anyone elses horses reacted like this to NB shoeing?
 
My horse had perfect feet, but I was sucked in, the farrier was world class, so not badly shod, but when I rode him he felt "as on tiptoes" he was never shod again with NB, and now is not shod at all!
As an aside, can you change over from his current diet to high fibre with added mins and vits and Micronised Linseed Meal, I think you will find his feet change radically within two months.
The farrier should not need to "cut right back", I do not like this idea at all as changes should be gradual, else ligaments are strained.
Was the vet indicating that he was not happy with the way the horse was shod inthe past, but too "polite" to say so?
Others will comment.
Are photos available?
I would want to remove the shoes and let the hoof grow in a natural shape.
Danolin for pain relief is indicated.
 
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Thanks, he's not being fed at the mo as he's got a lot of grass.
I'm at home now so can't take any pics unfortunately. He's appaloosa x Anglo Arab. The farrier said that he has thoroughbred type feet. We've used this farrier for a long time and we have noticed the horses feet have all been gradually looking worse. I think il get the vet out to give him some bute and check his feet if he's not better by Monday morning. I'd love to go bare foot with him but we have large stones all around the yard and on the bridleway and I have to school in the field.
 
You can't bully the hoof into being healthy and you can't trim or shoe a healthy hoof on a horse over night :(.

You can only grow and nurture a healthy hoof.

This is not a rant at you - but at the whole concept by professionals of radically cutting or shoeing to fit in with an ideal or system :mad:.

Natural Balance shoes were invented by Gene Ovnicek - a farrier who studied the wild mustang hooves around the same time as 'barefoot guru' Jaime Jackson.

Mr Ovnicek then created the natural balance shoe to try and mimic his findings of those wild hooves.

The idea of the shorter break over and inclusion of the sole as part of weight bearing are sound in theory....but a metal shoe that raises the hoof off the ground cannot overcome the lack of frog and heel involvement - and the resulting weak caudal hoof development. And that's before we get to medio lateral imbalance.....

I wonder if removing the shoes and allowing a break would make your horse as sore as this action has?

With the right approach and support - I imagine not :).
 
SNORKEY said:
Thanks, he's not being fed at the mo as he's got a lot of grass.
I'm at home now so can't take any pics unfortunately. He's appaloosa x Anglo Arab. The farrier said that he has thoroughbred type feet. We've used this farrier for a long time and we have noticed the horses feet have all been gradually looking worse. I think il get the vet out to give him some bute and check his feet if he's not better by Monday morning. I'd love to go bare foot with him but we have large stones all around the yard and on the bridleway and I have to school in the field.
Click to expand...
Typical TB feet is the mantra used by some farriers, perhaps to excuse their incompetence!
I used to work in racing, and they were all TBs, and they all raced, none were crippled by the farrier.
He is not sound just now so you can't ride anyway, in winter when he is stabled and on hay it will be easier to keep feet in good condition.
He should be fine being schooled in a field. My boy is great on tarmac and when feet are reasonable dry.
Sweet grass also makes horses "footy", but in the long run he might be better off with no shoes. I don't find it is the size of the stones, it is small sharp gravel on a track which make him sore. I have thought about boots, but have managed without by avoiding areas which cause discomfort.
I feed mine [Fast Fibre with a few extra minerals] every day, all year round to make sure he gets vitamins and minerals, plus micronised linseed, everyone remarks on his feet....... they are not perfect in shape, but the hoof wall is smooth and almost shiny, he walks out like a proud horse.
I would remove shoes, stable him half the day and feed ad lib soaked hay, plus a feed [no cereals, no molasses], a good deep bed.
 
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SNORKEY said:
Thanks, he's not being fed at the mo as he's got a lot of grass.
I'm at home now so can't take any pics unfortunately. He's appaloosa x Anglo Arab. The farrier said that he has thoroughbred type feet. We've used this farrier for a long time and we have noticed the horses feet have all been gradually looking worse. I think il get the vet out to give him some bute and check his feet if he's not better by Monday morning. I'd love to go bare foot with him but we have large stones all around the yard and on the bridleway and I have to school in the field.
Click to expand...

My horse is 26, has rampant Cushings and he is on unlimited grass in a boggy field.

He chooses to walk on this surface. He hacks on roads.

obibrickcrunching.jpg


With the right diet and help - you CAN have a healthy hoof....even when the conditions and environment isn't 'prefect' :).
 
I would be worried about a drastic alteration to the foot shape. A friend of mine had her horse expensively shod for a year by a remedial farrier, at the not-very-local vet hospital (half day spent travelling to and from every 6 weeks) with the agreement of her vet and insurance company. After 12 months the horse was as lame turned out in the field, as when it had started. Vet wanted to PTS. Owner decided to remove shoes - gradually as it was shod with heel supports, so waited for 2 shoeings to remove _ and then was sent to a barefoot remedial place and not very many weeks later it was sound, being hacked in boots and returned to work and is still working. Vet was grudging but said "it would probably have become sound eventually" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(After 12 months and £5,000 vet bills, drugs, etc.???).

This horse is still shod in the summer, and has shoes off for the winter.
 
SNORKEY said:
Thanks, he's not being fed at the mo as he's got a lot of grass.
I'm at home now so can't take any pics unfortunately. He's appaloosa x Anglo Arab. The farrier said that he has thoroughbred type feet. We've used this farrier for a long time and we have noticed the horses feet have all been gradually looking worse. I think il get the vet out to give him some bute and check his feet if he's not better by Monday morning. I'd love to go bare foot with him but we have large stones all around the yard and on the bridleway and I have to school in the field.
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Change your Farrier.

My old Farrier blamed everything except himself when my mare's hooves were going downhill, when frankly, it was all his fault. No-one else was trimming or shoeing her. I honestly wish that someone had told me to sack him earlier but I was unfortunately advised to give him another chance and I stupidly followed the advice.
 
Thanks, he had his shoes off recently for about two weeks as we thought he may of had an abcces even though the farrier didn't find anything. He was very lame and footy around the field for the whole two weeks.
When he was showing 5 yrs ago though he was on a yard with a lovely big school and no stones around and didn't hack out, and he was fine. He does seem to really suffer on any type of uneven surface or stoney ground.
 
Oberon said:
You can't bully the hoof into being healthy and you can't trim or shoe a healthy hoof on a horse over night :(.

You can only grow and nurture a healthy hoof.

This is not a rant at you - but at the whole concept by professionals of radically cutting or shoeing to fit in with an ideal or system :mad:.

Natural Balance shoes were invented by Gene Ovnicek - a farrier who studied the wild mustang hooves around the same time as 'barefoot guru' Jaime Jackson.

Mr Ovnicek then created the natural balance shoe to try and mimic his findings of those wild hooves.

The idea of the shorter break over and inclusion of the sole as part of weight bearing are sound in theory....but a metal shoe that raises the hoof off the ground cannot overcome the lack of frog and heel involvement - and the resulting weak caudal hoof development. And that's before we get to medio lateral imbalance.....

I wonder if removing the shoes and allowing a break would make your horse as sore as this action has?

With the right approach and support - I imagine not :).
Click to expand...

^^This^^

I cannot really add anything to this. :)
 
SNORKEY said:
Thanks, he had his shoes off recently for about two weeks as we thought he may of had an abcces even though the farrier didn't find anything. He was very lame and footy around the field for the whole two weeks.
When he was showing 5 yrs ago though he was on a yard with a lovely big school and no stones around and didn't hack out, and he was fine. He does seem to really suffer on any type of uneven surface or stoney ground.
Click to expand...

You need to accept that in most instances the diet is the major player in footy horses.

Until you can get your head round this (and for some people it can take a long time) you won't be successful at going barefoot :).

The size of the stones or the type of ground is of little relevance in comparison with diet.
 
Dear OP
I totally agree with what Oberon has said. Thanks to the information posted on these barefoot threads, I have managed to get 2 elderly, lame ponies back into work. both had been shod all their lives and I never, ever believed it was the shoes and diet causing problems. If anyone had said to me 1 year ago, "you need to change your management, and take the shoes off and try barefoot" I would have thought they were mad!!
My previously crippled 30 year old lame and footy, is now barefoot, SOUND 2 weeks after shoes removed!!!!!!!!!!!!! and did pony club camp this year. He is ridden most weekends no problems.
My poor sick Section B with rampant Equine Metabolic Syndrome has had shoes off (against vet and farrier advice - they both wanted feet cut right back and remedial shoes and box rest). She was 2nd in a One Day Event last weekend, and does 10-15 miles hacks most weekends BAREFOOT!!!!!!
Its has been a steep learning curve for me, meaning a big change in the way I care for my ponies.
Thanks Oberon, cptrayes, and Moorman, you have saved my Section B's life, I very very nearly had her put down. I had even rung to book her in!! The threads on here gave me the confidence to question my vet and farrier and to "think outside the box".
 
JEZA said:
Dear OP
I totally agree with what Oberon has said. Thanks to the information posted on these barefoot threads, I have managed to get 2 elderly, lame ponies back into work. both had been shod all their lives and I never, ever believed it was the shoes and diet causing problems. If anyone had said to me 1 year ago, "you need to change your management, and take the shoes off and try barefoot" I would have thought they were mad!!
My previously crippled 30 year old lame and footy, is now barefoot, SOUND 2 weeks after shoes removed!!!!!!!!!!!!! and did pony club camp this year. He is ridden most weekends no problems.
My poor sick Section B with rampant Equine Metabolic Syndrome has had shoes off (against vet and farrier advice - they both wanted feet cut right back and remedial shoes and box rest). She was 2nd in a One Day Event last weekend, and does 10-15 miles hacks most weekends BAREFOOT!!!!!!
Its has been a steep learning curve for me, meaning a big change in the way I care for my ponies.
Thanks Oberon, cptrayes, and Moorman, you have saved my Section B's life, I very very nearly had her put down. I had even rung to book her in!! The threads on here gave me the confidence to question my vet and farrier and to "think outside the box".
Click to expand...

hug.gif
 
I just want to draw your attention to hoof boots, which have been mentioned in passing above. Look here http://www.easycareinc.com/.
They're not really designed for field use, but my mare had an operation on one foot a few years ago and during her recovery she spent six weeks in Old Macs, 24/7. The boots allowed her to be outside and comfortable. If your horse is very sore, it might be worth thinking about, and also for riding if you do start down the barefoot route. You can put pads in the boots to make them even more comfortable!
 
Thanks, if I look to start changing his diet then ladies what should I feed him?
He is fat now and Im not giving him anything, but soon he'l start dropping weight.
He's a 15.3hh appaloosa x anglo arab, and I cant feed him anything that fizzes him up.
Our grass is ritch and it wont be too bad all over the winter.
Secondly, if you could only ride on large stones which are on our bridle paths and in a field and you know the horse is very lame whilst riding on them, would you still go barefoot?

Barefoot is new to me, ive just always shod. I only took his shoes off when he was on a showing yard as he has good surfaces to walk and be riden on and he moved better without them, ie. floaty paces!

Thanks :)
 
SNORKEY said:
Thanks, if I look to start changing his diet then ladies what should I feed him?
He is fat now and Im not giving him anything, but soon he'l start dropping weight.
He's a 15.3hh appaloosa x anglo arab, and I cant feed him anything that fizzes him up.
Our grass is ritch and it wont be too bad all over the winter.
Secondly, if you could only ride on large stones which are on our bridle paths and in a field and you know the horse is very lame whilst riding on them, would you still go barefoot?

Barefoot is new to me, ive just always shod. I only took his shoes off when he was on a showing yard as he has good surfaces to walk and be riden on and he moved better without them, ie. floaty paces!

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

Did I send you a 'Barefoot 101' pm? I know I sent one to someone yesterday but can't remember who....:o
 
Hi fibre lo sugar, no molasses and often limited grass when there is a problem.
It is essential to feed balanced minerals and vitamins to support hoof growth.
and feed miclronised linseed meal for hoof, joints, skin, and energy.
Magnesium is one of the essential minerals.
He does not need fattening foods, like cereals, or bagged feeds with more than 10 mJ per Kg.
I use Fast Fibre to carry mins and vits, plus a coffee cup of MLMeal. and he is fed all summer long. It does not make him fatter, he has access to grass 24/7.
Good grass is not good for feet.
When you remove the shoes they will take a while to toughen up, but you will see them change week on week especially at first.
 
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Oberon said:
Did I send you a 'Barefoot 101' pm? I know I sent one to someone yesterday but can't remember who....:o
Click to expand...

You pm tart :p

Yes I would still go bf as you obviously have an unhealthy hoof atm. Id be prepared for not riding to begin with, lots of inhand walking, criticism from others who dont understand and buying boots :)

Also for becoming a hoof nerd who reads and absorbs everything poss about feet and feed :D
 
Don't blame NB shoeing, blame the farrier. It sounds as though he took off too much, too quickly, and made too drastic a change.

My big horse was shod in NB shoes and they were a miracle - he went from hobbling in standard shoes to moving freely and sound, the moment he walked away from the farrier. I changed from a farrier who routinely made my horse (and others on the yard) lame with nail bind, cutting back too much, changing things too quickly... to a fantastic remedial farrier who has worked miracles.
 
Hi Oberon, sorry to high-jack OP but could I have a copy of your barefoot 101? I have just bought a welsh pony for my daughter and his feet are awful! All pink and bruised on the walls. My farrier is coming out on Wednesday to have a look and hopefully put a plan of action together.
 
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