My horse is driving me insane snatching and shaking his head. Any ideas?

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littlen

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Argh.

He has driven me mad this morning!

He constantly snatches the bit and rips the reins from my hands. He will bring his head right up and shake it about and then try and stretch it right down to the floor pulling me off balance. He will tilt his head from side to side trying to snatch the bit so he can escape any contact and he will not just walk along nicely, he jogs with his head a mile in the air.

Strangely though, he never does this when hacking alone or in the school. When schooling he works nicely on the bit, but as soon as he gets excited or is doing something he dosent want to his head comes up and he starts the snatching and shaking his head about.
It mainly happens hacking in company, as he gets very excited, jogs and then starts fiddling with the contact.
I have regular lessons and he has never once done it in a lesson, he always works happily on the bit without protest, and has a moist mouth etc when schooling.

It dosent matter if I have a strong contact or a light one he will still do it. I have also tried dropping the reins, he still does it. He is never heavy on the hands and always pulls up 100%, just he constantly snatches.

I have had his back checked by both a chiro and physio who have ruled out physical problems. He has had a 5* vetting which he passed and has also been checked by a vet and dentist for any form of teeth problems which he didnt have. I have also had his saddle checked and it is fine.
He is ridden in a french link copper snaffle after trying a number of different bits, none of which suited him. He goes very well in the french link when he is behaving nicely, he also schools in it lovely. I have had my riding instructor check his bit and she rode him herself and said he was fighting against the contact in a sort of protest way rather than out of pain or discomfort. I have also tried a hackamore which he hated.
I always ride him forwards into the contact but its mainly when I am trying to hold him back a little, say when trotting or cantering in a group that he starts.
He is ridden in a flash noseband to stop him crossing the jaw which has helped but has not stopped him snatching his head down and shaking his head.

I have tried giving him a smack, and also giving him a little jerk with the reins when he pulls me but nothing has worked.

After a 2 hour hack today my shoulders and back ache and I have blisters on my hands where he has yanked them for 2 hours straight as we were in company and cantering on a hack so he got very excited and started being worse than normal.

Does anyone have any ideas that might help please?
 
Sounds like a classic headskaker - classic movements and gets worse where there's not stuff to concentrate on. Did he do it last year as the weather warmed up?

There's a couple of schools of thought on head shaking but one is pollen and the other is light sensitivity - sunlight causes the the trigeminal nerve (the one on the lower face) to tingle and can drive them insane.

If you've def ruled out all tack issues (try a bitless first too) than have a think about a nosenet or a facemask - the nosenet should help if it's pollen related and facemask (fly mask) should help if it's sunlight induced. I know a horse who is unridable without both.
 
Kallibear said:
Sounds like a classic headskaker - classic movements and gets worse where there's not stuff to concentrate on. Did he do it last year as the weather warmed up?

There's a couple of schools of thought on head shaking but one is pollen and the other is light sensitivity - sunlight causes the the trigeminal nerve (the one on the lower face) to tingle and can drive them insane.

If you've def ruled out all tack issues (try a bitless first too) than have a think about a nosenet or a facemask - the nosenet should help if it's pollen related and facemask (fly mask) should help if it's sunlight induced. I know a horse who is unridable without both.
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Hi Kallibear,
Thanks for your reply.

Ive tried bitless but he hated it.
He does it all year around, even in the snow in the middle of winter! 9 times out of 10 he is fine, but as soon as he gets worked up he starts with the snatching, jogging and yanking his head about.
I was thinking its a form of napping, as it gets very bad when he has been made to something he dosent want to, but as soon as he gets his own way he is back to normal hapily skipping along. Its the same with schooling, he will fight for 10mins or so until he settles and works nicely after that. Hacking is just one big excitement so he never settles?
 
I disagree that it's headshaking TBH. There is a mare at the yard I'm on who does exactly the same thing. She schools nicely, jumps etc and never ever behaves this way in the arena. She only ever does it on hacks, and it's worse in company. Her owner says she isn't too bad going away from home but as soon as she realises they're on the way home (even on circular hacks, and even with varying hacks constantly) the head shaking, pulling, yanking and jogging starts. It's taken her owner 12 months to be able to walk reasonably sensibly down the track by our canter field without the mare starting off as described and then bouncing on the spot in canter, or plain buggering off towards home. She jogs constantly on fun rides, throwing her head around and shaking it in a tantrum if not allowed to canter.

I can't offer any advice though as the only thing that seems to be vaguely calming this one down are copious amounts of Regumate and potassium bromide! I know her owner just has to sit quietly and try to ignore it because if she tells her off, the mare gets worse. I'd say it's napping. Mine behaves that way on fun rides, so I don't take him, but obviously that's not really an option when your horse is doing it every day out hacking.
 
chestnut cob said:
I disagree that it's headshaking TBH. There is a mare at the yard I'm on who does exactly the same thing. She schools nicely, jumps etc and never ever behaves this way in the arena. She only ever does it on hacks, and it's worse in company. Her owner says she isn't too bad going away from home but as soon as she realises they're on the way home (even on circular hacks, and even with varying hacks constantly) the head shaking, pulling, yanking and jogging starts. It's taken her owner 12 months to be able to walk reasonably sensibly down the track by our canter field without the mare starting off as described and then bouncing on the spot in canter, or plain buggering off towards home. She jogs constantly on fun rides, throwing her head around and shaking it in a tantrum if not allowed to canter.

I can't offer any advice though as the only thing that seems to be vaguely calming this one down are copious amounts of Regumate and potassium bromide! I know her owner just has to sit quietly and try to ignore it because if she tells her off, the mare gets worse. I'd say it's napping. Mine behaves that way on fun rides, so I don't take him, but obviously that's not really an option when your horse is doing it every day out hacking.
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Hi CC,
Thanks for this, its reassuring to know someone else has the same problem!
As I said sometimes he is fine. I can manage hacks in company in walk no problem, the next day I take him out and have one canter and have my arms yanked out of the sockets for a whole hour as well as nearly being nutted in the face by crazy joggin arab. Not fun especially as I aready have a bad back and this is not helping.

I dont really know what to try next, as my instructor has tried to help but she never sees it really as she dosent hack him so cant notice it?
I just need something that wil stop him being able to snatch and throw his head about, I have thought about martingales etc, someone suggsted a market harbourough whatever that is but dont know where to start.
 
I'll probably get shot down for this but I'd ride in a standing martingale for a while as that should stop him getting his head up in the air (and probably nearly breaking your nose in the process?!).

There isn't anything physically wrong with the mare I mentioned, she is just fizzy and very over excitable. Ex racehorse and ex hunter so TBH I think she's been used to being allowed to go everywhere at top speed so now she objects when asked to walk calmly!
 
Hi,

If you're happy there are no pain/allergy/tack issues etc then try a Market Harborough - just for short periods of time to begin with. You don't have to do much yourself other than keep a steady, soft contact (and don't overbend him/her) as the horse will only be fighting against itself and they usually learn to stop snatching pretty quickly.
 
Standing martingale I will put it past instructor and see what she thinks. I have tried a running martingale but to be honest it didnt do much as he put his head down rather than lifting it, then again it was fitted very loose! :)

A friend has offered to lend me her market harborough but I am not really sure how to use one. What does it do exactly? Would I still be able to hack, canter, jump etc in it?
 
Hi again,

If you look in one of the catalogues like Derby House/Robinsons or such like, you'll find a pic to show you what it is.

The action is simple and is not operated by the rider's hand but by the horse's head. While the head is carried correctly the strips passing through the bit rings are inoperative. They tighten and exert their pull only when the head is thrown upwards. No restriction on extension of head and neck whilst jumping but, as with all these kind of aids, be careful not to overdo your hands as you will end up with an overbent horse with limited powers of extension.
 
I have the same problem with my horse when he gets excited, I have been in pain for days after taking him hunting...it hurt SO much and my fingers were nearly bleeding!

Anyway, the only thing to work for him is a pelham and a curb but when hunting I put a standing martingale on aswell, he was perfect then and we even jumped in it with no problems, I couldn't even have thought about jumping him out hunting without it ... he was a beast! :o

I had thought about a market harbourgh, I would had used one if the pelham hadn't worked, I used to use one on a horse that reared, they are a great piece of kit.

Good luck :)
 
Thanks Lolli.

I thought about changing bit again but I am not sure.
He is in a loose ring french link with copper, he works nicely on the bit schooling and has a nice moist mouth.
I thought about something like a waterford but he is never strong and I dont want to go down the strong bit route if I can help it.

I can cope with the tossing of the head, but when he is snatching the reins so hard my hands are hurting and he is pulling my back muscles out I feel like I have to do something.

Instructor has told me to give him a tap but its not working.

I think I will try the MH and see what happens. I am also going to try a nosenet but to be honest I think its bad behaviour rather than a medical problem since he can pick and choose when he does it!
 
VioletStripe said:
I'm not expert by any means, but could it be flies? I once knew a horse like this who stopped doing this once he got a fly net over his nose. Could be wrong though xx
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Interestingly he is highly allergic to fly bites and had to take steroids last year for bites!
It could well be flies, although this morning it was raining when I rode and there was not a fly in sight yet he still did it..
 
I know what you mean about the snatching, it really does hurt your back and shoulders, the standing martingale may work without the pelham or the MH may work.

I tried so many bits and nosebands, I have loads in the tack room now!

I ride him in a NS waterford in the school and slow hacks, but anything that involves cantering with others I use the pelham, and as I said a pelham and standing martingale out hunting = no pain - lovely! :o
 
I will have a dig around the yard and see if I can find a martingale to try him in, failing that I will try the MH before swapping bits.
I have also ordered a nose net for £6 so that might help?!


I wish I could have a nice relaxing ride. The more contact I take the worse he is, yet if I take less contact he takes the P and uses it as an excuse to be stupid and stick his head in the air, which is more comfy for him than working in an outline.

I would try him in a stronger bit but he has such as sensitive mouth I dont want to ruin him!
 
my mare does this sometimes too. Everything is comfy - dentist (and with this a change of bit to one more shaped to her mouth - not stronger), back lady, farrier, vet and saddle fitter all checked!. She tends to do it on the way back from a hack. She is just being a mardy mare! Doesn't matter if I make her work forwards into a contact, let her hack along on a loose rein or anything. The only thing I have found that works for us is getting a balance strap (http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/article.php?aid=105866) for the front of my saddle, then when she starts yanking at the reins I just pick a comfortable length of rein for her, then bridge my reins over her neck with my thumbs tucked behind the balance strap. When I do this she then doesn't have anything reactive to tug on (no matter how hard I try, when she yanks forwards, my hands naturally come back towards me when she stops pulling so there is movement on her mouth) and when she does yank I'm not so easily unbalanced - so we are both more settled and I can just ignore her and carry on. She settles down after a few mins when I do this - at first it took longer, but with time she has got better and does it much less often now.
Good luck, it really did spoil our hacks so I hope you manage to get it sorted.
 
Does it make any difference if you let her have her head for 5 minutes, letting her stretch out and right down.

Can you not anchor your position/body so she can't pull you forward and out of your seat when she does this (I apprecite this may be hard if your a petite rider on a large horse) but sometimes they just learn that they can do it and your merely a passanger, but if you can work on your position so when she does this, she's infact just pulling you deap into your seat rather than out of it when she plunges her head forward and putting your leg on at the same time, may not work but may do after a while, then rewarding her with a full stretch for a few minutes, on the way back from your hack, so she understands there is a clear difference of when she can and can't do this.
 
My old pony used to do this when I first got him, he was 7 and had never been hacked out and it was all just TERRIBLY exciting to him. I too tried giving a tug on the riens, or a quick tap down the shoulder and this all just led to further arguments. I had lessons to work on my seat and sat quickly and didn't react, once he stopped the tantrum (he'd have several small ones) I would give him a pat and ride postivily forwards, it took between 6 months to a year to crack but we did get there. He was however the type of pony that the more you argued or told him off the more he would fight back...

Good luck you've had some good suggestions on here -trying a MH or similar may well help, they seem to settle if they don't get anywhere with it.

T xx
 
This is Zoom! :D Although she does headshake, since the behaviour is 20 time worse in April and May (hence the fact she has just had three weeks off). If you are not finding it difficult to stop, I wouldn't up the bitting.

Zoom has a VERY sensitive mouth and anything stronger than a hanging cheek snaffle (used for hunting and xc) just makes her go up and down more since she can't go forwards. I also try to avoid riding her in a martingale apart from jumping since this makes it worse - the behaviour is a reaction to restriction from the rider (ie not being allowed to gallop off!) and the martingale coupled with her soft mouth makes her more frustrated.

I think the balancing strap idea is a good one, to be honest the only thing I have done to get her to calm down is to simply sit quietly with a light contact. I know it's bloody irritating when they behave like this but I don't think there is too much you can do to actively solve the problem. Zoom still does it, especially when there is alot of pollen, but she has got ALOT better. She basically just gets bored of it now!

I know that doesn't sound like very positive advice but it is hard when they have a long-standing habit. Zoom is ex-polo so I try not to get angry with her since galloping around is all she had ever known. Good luck!
 
We had the same problem, out hunting and incompany, resolved by a ported bit either a kimblewick or a pelham, I know it sounds a bit extream but it worked, The horse at all other times eg: schooling, shows ect is ridden in a french link snaffle.
 
Hi, I used to have a ex race horse and know what they can be like. Sounds like she is getting anxious as she knows she's on her way home. Try MAGNITUDE calmer to relax her. Which will stop the anxiety. And just keep her calm. It cold take about 3 weeks before you see any difference. But it really does help. Be careful when using gadgits as it could make her worse. Try to calm the brain first. Good luck
 
Hi I have a shire cob youngster I have just broke him in, I sat on him for the first
time today to try him out so he gets used to what he has to do. He has been long reined 5 times now and he was fine he turned walked stopped no problem, when i sat on him and got him going he seem to fight the reins when I try and turn him to the right then he stop keep shaking his head then start to go backwards, when he shakes his head he dose it violently, at times I thought he was ether going to buck or bolt I have persevered with him and tried to keep him calm and got him to walk round nicely, but it his his head shaking that worries me, Any ideas please?
 
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