My horse is having seizures, please help??

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Ellietotz

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Hello,
I have a 16.2hh Welsh D who had what seemed like a fit about 4 years a go. Last summer he had another one where his eyes were flickering/rolling and he was twitching all over, he wasn't him. Then two weeks a go, he was covered head to hoof in mud, there was a 40ft patch of flattened mud in the field and a few other roll patches, he was sweating and the mud had gotten under the rug so he must have been seriously thrashing around. Then it happened twice in the last week, he was dripping with sweat, he went on painkillers because he was so stiff afterwards and more roll patches around the field. He has had a lot of tests and vet can't find a cause to it and said it may be epilepsy but from what I've heard, epileptic seizures should only last a couple of minutes and it's rare to ever know it's happened.
Has anyone else experienced this or may know the cause?
I really appreciate all advice!
The vet is due to advise on it again tomorrow and possibly arrange a scan but I just want to know what everyone else thinks in the meantime.
Thank you!
 
Wagtail said:
Is it possible he's had some intermittent colic?
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my sec d had what we thought was colic and what vet would have treated as colic, he was 28. It may be irrelevant but he was stabled at the time and rugged. When we found him at 1am he was soaking, completely covered in sweat, totally crazy with pain and throwing him self at the stable walls, sliding down them to the floor and doing it again and again. He was too dangerous to even go into the stable with.

Vet arrived within the hour and I am afraid that was it. He was in too much agony to carry on.

I am sure yours won't be the same but that was what severe colic was like but I have no idea how you would test for it. Mine was slightly odd earlier in the day and I was not surprised it happened. I worked on the basis that as he had never been ill in his life it could be an internal growth at his age when we made the decision to end it.

Have you looked at the background to each incident, what he was eating, which field/stable etc etc does he drink well? could he have been without water each time ie fussy drinker etc?

I think many would react in the way yours has in a severe pain and panic situation. Sorry this doesn't tell you why.
 
I'm really sorry to hear about your horse.
It's very odd as it happened once, again three years later and again a year later but three times in a couple of weeks. I have googled the symptoms of recurrent colic and he matches up to some of it. When it comes in to winter, he gets diarrhea when he's on haylage, so he has been getting half hay, half haylage this year which has helped keep his weight up but still gets diarrhea mildly. He always has access to water, lives out 24/7, has warm well-built shelters and has a good feed after hes ridden which is normally Saturday and Sunday. He gets chaff, pony nuts and oats as he seems quite lethargic currently.
The vet originally said it was epilepsy but from the size of the mud patches and his stiffness after, it just seems to be lasting much longer than an epileptic seizure should. I'm not sure how it can be diagnosed.
 
Hello OP. As he is a welsh type that makes me very suspicious. How old was he when he had his first funny turn? All seizures are different, some last a few seconds, some can last several minutes, or go straight into the next one apparently without a break. Just because most people rarely see them happen, it doesn't mean they are a rare event - and they are not. My mare was epileptic. She had a seizure (which no-one recognised for what they were) about every 6 months after I bought her then one day she had 2 in 4 days, and then went onto a 10 day cycle which she only slipped from on one occasion. Do feel free to PM me as I have lots of first hand experience and plenty of second hand too. There are still some vets out there who believe that horses can't have epilepsy and there isn't anything you can do anyway.
 
Can you install a wildlife camera, which you can re-set daily if he hasn't had an episode or watch if he has? Without actually seeing what's going on, guessing is the best anyone could do but it does sound like it could be linked to his intermittent, high energy feeds.
 
Orca said:
Can you install a wildlife camera, which you can re-set daily if he hasn't had an episode or watch if he has? Without actually seeing what's going on, guessing is the best anyone could do but it does sound like it could be linked to his intermittent, high energy feeds.
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My thoughts as well. The stiffness could indicate azoturia?
 
Hi there, I wasn't aware that that could happen so thank you for the info. His first one happened when he was 12. If it is epilepsy, is it normal to happen that far apart? I guess I may not have known he had any in between though... he just doesn't seem himself at the moment. Very lethargic and stiff from last week. I just want to know what is causing it so I may be able to help.
 
I could look into doing that. He has always been fine this way but perhaps it would help if I fed him smaller feeds everyday rather than at the end of the week.
 
Smaller feeds given every day, preferably twice daily, are much better practice than larger infrequent feeds. Irregular feeding can lead to an upset digestive system and can lead to colic. The flattened grass and mud in the field did sound like it could have happened during a colic attack.

There could be more than one issue going on with your chap. Good luck.
 
what I would do simply to start ruling things out and getting some idea as to what is going on would be to do an ACTH test for cushings if he is 16. It is a simple blood pull and relatively cheap (in the grand scheme of things) I would also look at the PSSM diet as being good for all horses. I would replace haylage with just hay. The PSSM diet cuts out things like H & P nuts. I am not suggesting yours is PSSM but it cannot do any harm. I feed copra and alfalfa pellets, vitamin E oil, salt. No sugary feeds. I wouldn't feed only after riding but every day, twice a day if you can manage it with the same constant feed all the time.

No one can guess what your problem is but I would keep a diary. Record the weather, his exercise time worked, what he did and score him on how good he was, work on the basis he may have pain from tying up and use an exercise sheet and make sure he is kept warm, log walks to warm up and cool down after work. Record field changes, if he has access to anything else extradordinary eg hedgerows, some strange feeds, anything different. Keep him on exactly the same feed/hay every day at the same time if you can. Record everything and hopefully a pattern will start to emerge.

Some of the words you use bring different thoughts to mind for example lethargic brings cushings (hence ACTH test) as lethargy is a symptom. Stiff brings PSSM to mind as does colic or what some call false colic. It may of course be none of these and he could be epileptic but I think it is a case of "self diagnosis" for a bit to record in detail exactly what is happening and when.
 
The best advice my vet ever gave me was to keep a diary. OK, by this time we were on the 10 day cycle, but it allowed me to realise that the day before a seizure she would be even more wild than a chestnut Welsh Dx mare had the right to be, and sometimes even a bit aggressive to other horses which was totally out of character. On the day (98% of her seizures occurred at breakfast time as eating was the trigger, all seizures have a trigger, you just have to find it) she sometimes looked dopey or headachy. I'm faintly ashamed to say it still took me several years to realise that the seizures were tied directly to her seasons. So if you thing your boy has had a turn, think what he was like earlier, what was the weather like, did something happen in the field , that sort of thing. And watch him carefully afterwards - does he seem sleepy, unusually quiet or jumpy, shaky, - write it all down.
 
Megmoo said:
Sounds like a long process but definitely worth it. Will it still work properly even if I'm at work all day everyday? As I won't be there to analyse him.
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Yes, it might be but short cuts lead to long delays. I was at work all day too but was still able to observe my mare. I had the advantage that not only did I know what days her seizures were due, I knew what time of day they would occur too so was on alert from the day before. You must really really watch, not just glance. I had a teacher at school who used to say you couldn't draw or paint anything if you hadn't thoroughly studied it first. Observing is an art and needs practice!

Oh, I forgot to ask - what sort of character is he? Seizures seem to be more common in sharp, fast thinking horses, often competition ones.
 
I've gone back in time to log the first one since I've had him. Temperatures of the day/time of year are different, different times of day/different days, no change in feeds so nothing matching up so far! :/
In terms of personality, the complete opposite depending on the situation! He's big, choppy, chunkyish, mostly very easy going and calm. Ridden out with others, he's the slowest plod ever until heading home of course, he's not sharp at all, too heavy to be light on his feet. On his own ridden out, he's very alert, bouncy, forward going but still not sharp.
Really uncertain at the moment. He has always suffered from abscesses in his feet and very mild laminitis but not since the spring before last. He's due to have more blood tests but not sure if anything will come up again.
 
Megmoo said:
I've gone back in time to log the first one since I've had him. Temperatures of the day/time of year are different, different times of day/different days, no change in feeds so nothing matching up so far! :/
In terms of personality, the complete opposite depending on the situation! He's big, choppy, chunkyish, mostly very easy going and calm. Ridden out with others, he's the slowest plod ever until heading home of course, he's not sharp at all, too heavy to be light on his feet. On his own ridden out, he's very alert, bouncy, forward going but still not sharp.
Really uncertain at the moment. He has always suffered from abscesses in his feet and very mild laminitis but not since the spring before last. He's due to have more blood tests but not sure if anything will come up again.
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You will have to be patient! It could be the trigger is something you just haven't noticed yet. Believe it or not, just raising the head suddenly can set off a seizure - I heard of one that did it whenever the owner wiped its eyes. At least your horse is only having the odd episode and no harm seems to be coming of it. Why not ask the vet to give him a full neurological work up? Mine was shown to have brain damage which certainly wasn't there when I bought her 9 months or so before.
 
fatpiggy said:
Hello OP. As he is a welsh type that makes me very suspicious. How old was he when he had his first funny turn? All seizures are different, some last a few seconds, some can last several minutes, or go straight into the next one apparently without a break. Just because most people rarely see them happen, it doesn't mean they are a rare event - and they are not. My mare was epileptic. She had a seizure (which no-one recognised for what they were) about every 6 months after I bought her then one day she had 2 in 4 days, and then went onto a 10 day cycle which she only slipped from on one occasion. Do feel free to PM me as I have lots of first hand experience and plenty of second hand too. There are still some vets out there who believe that horses can't have epilepsy and there isn't anything you can do anyway.
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I just this morning witnessed my 10 year old Welsh gelding have a seizure. If you could give me your tips on how to help him going forward I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you,
Matchless
 
Regarding the haylage making his poop runnier - cut it out or change the haylage.

not all haylage is equal and i had the same runny poop with mine on a certain infamous ryegrass brand - the conclusion i came to upon research is that if too much NPK fertiliser is given, there’s too much nitrate in the haylage and that can cause upset stomach/poops. My gelding really didnt do well on it, it was winter too, and i was very worried by his sudden sloppy poop change, and weight change, so i got another brand (marksway high fibre ryegrass/timothy haylage is excellent out of soooo many brands ive tried). He was a different horse with a change of haylage.
But to be safer than safe, if you can find good hay, i’d stick with that.

My welsh D mix blood mare doesnt handle oats at all.
Perhaps try to (slowly) strip the diet back to basics of forage/minerals/salt/water and assess closely for a month...then add back in 1 thing at a time.

Great suggestions given by all others so wont echo them. Diary great idea. Trail cam from amazon are 25 quid and very easy to set up, theyre waterproof, run off 4 AA batteries, take a mini SD card to record footage on, record only when motion detected. Perfect for monitoring him while not there.

I also thought of PSSM when you mentioned stiffness. Another reason to cut down the oats for now.

Magnesium worth a try for any lethargic pony receiving high calorie foods yet still being lethargic as magnesium is required by the metabolism to make TPO energy molecules in the body. If the store of magnesium is low, TPO energy production will be vastly reduced, lactic acid production therefore high in muscles and very sore stiff muscles result.
This is the reason why some people say that magnesium makes their fat cushings/lami horses loopy - it SHOULD increase their energy and their behaviour will be livelier as they feel energised! finally with mag. Supplement the body is able to utilise all the carbs and convert it into TPO molecules instead of storing it as fat - it’s a sign that there’s too many carbs in the diet and needs to be cut down, but they end up cutting out the magnesium instead of choosing a lower calorie forage source, re-perpetuating the lami/weight issues.

My fingers are crossed for you that you get to the bottom of the issue with your boy, i hope the vet visit tomorrow helps.
 
Has he been tested for PPID, OP? Seizures and lethargy can both be symptoms, and he’s the right age for it too (they can start much younger, of course, but most are diagnosed in their teens).
 
This is an old thread.


Matchless said:
I just this morning witnessed my 10 year old Welsh gelding have a seizure. If you could give me your tips on how to help him going forward I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you,
Matchless
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Could you start a new thread? Given the subject, it might be a painful thread to bring back up for the OP.
 
Matchless said:
I just this morning witnessed my 10 year old Welsh gelding have a seizure. If you could give me your tips on how to help him going forward I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you,
Matchless
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Hi,

I had a horse that suffered full blown seizures.

I'd be happy to share my experiences but as suggested above, it might be an idea to start a new thread.
 
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