My horse is 'seriously underweight'

[Honey08]

OP - the best advice I can give you is to ask your vet. On here, you will never get a unanimous answer, ask someone who has the qualification to give you the answers you need. You can then tell the interfering busy-body to shove it. I'd also be onto the YO who needs to be warning off the person who is feeding your horse...

I agree with this.

An old man, a boy, and a pony called Fergus once set out for market. On the way to the market, the boy told the old man to ride and he would walk. A little way down the road, they met some people. One of these said to his companions, "Look at that lazy old man riding while he makes that poor young lad walk!"

So the old man got off the pony and the boy got on.

The next lot of people they met remarked, "Look at that! Just the lad riding when the pony is quite strong enough to carry them both! They must be stupid!". So they both got on the pony.

Another mile down the road, they met some more people. One remarked how cruel they were to both be riding the pony, adding, "Those b*st*ards should carry that poor little pony! Fancy making him carry them both! Call the RSPCA!".

So they got off the pony, picked it up between them, and carried it the rest of the way to the market. When they got there, everyone fell about laughing to see two men carrying a pony!

So, there you go. There is no pleasing everyone in this world. If I had started this thread, I would have thanked everyone profusely for their advice about 20 pages ago and gone off and done what I felt was the right thing. Some people will never be satisfied with what you say or do so there is really no point in worrying what they will think. A wise old man once told me always to ask for advice (as the OP has done), adding with a smile, "You don't have to take it!"

Love this!


I would LOVE my horses to look in that condition coming out of winter and into summer grazing. My two are fatties through and through. I don't think there was very much wrong with the horse's condition.

While Eventa's comments explained her side of the story, they did come across as a bit "I'm Soooo experienced, you really should take my advice..." So I can see why they didn't take the advice. Sorry Eventa. I actually read the posts from the OP as very polite and respectful to those that she didn't agree with, so didn't see the teenager that didn't want to learn.

I think people are getting a bit het up over something tiny on this thread really!

ps, my big 17h ISH looked quite scrawny and light at 5-6, then filled out his frame at 7. Someone thought he was a TB when he now looks like a ID. He just needed time to fill his frame.

Another note, I'm an instructor and event too, so have a bit of experience myself, but wouldn't be pushing my opinions unless the horse was a lot skinnier than this...

 

[Wagtail]

would LOVE my horses to look in that condition coming out of winter and into summer grazing. My two are fatties through and through. I don't think there was very much wrong with the horse's condition.

While Eventa's comments explained her side of the story, they did come across as a bit "I'm Soooo experienced, you really should take my advice..." So I can see why they didn't take the advice. Sorry Eventa. I actually read the posts from the OP as very polite and respectful to those that she didn't agree with, so didn't see the teenager that didn't want to learn.

I think people are getting a bit het up over something tiny on this thread really!

ps, my big 17h ISH looked quite scrawny and light at 5-6, then filled out his frame at 7. Someone thought he was a TB when he now looks like a ID. He just needed time to fill his frame.

Another note, I'm an instructor and event too, so have a bit of experience myself, but wouldn't be pushing my opinions unless the horse was a lot skinnier than this...

Do you think it acceptable that the OPs horse is left without forage for 12 to 14 hours every day? Also, do you think that leaving a horse rugless and without food in winter because he did not school well, is acceptable treatment?

 

[Eventa]

Dear HOney08
I certainly don't think of myself that way but as I am 3 times her age (unfortunately) I do have way more experience in horses and thats just maths.
I guess its different when actually there at the time things are said and things can be so very easily misconstrued on things like here, hence why I have never joined before!!! I simply wished to express the reasoning behind it all and I dont think that the original topic and request should be forgotten here. My post was purely and simply to let others see exactly why it was done. I am very sure if on the yard and aware of the people involved here, you would have very different thoughts!!! I have no desire to be involved in any personal attacks on anyone here however I have done as I wanted to and posted my response
Regards

 

[Honey08]

Do you think it acceptable that the OPs horse is left without forage for 12 to 14 hours every day? Also, do you think that leaving a horse rugless and without food in winter because he did not school well, is acceptable treatment?

I don't actually know that. Thats just something that someone posted on a forum, and we all know how you get untrue postings on both sides....

I'm just going off the photo evidence that I can see with my own eyes...

 

[Honey08]

Dear HOney08
I certainly don't think of myself that way but as I am 3 times her age (unfortunately) I do have way more experience in horses and thats just maths.
I guess its different when actually there at the time things are said and things can be so very easily misconstrued on things like here, hence why I have never joined before!!! I simply wished to express the reasoning behind it all and I dont think that the original topic and request should be forgotten here. My post was purely and simply to let others see exactly why it was done. I am very sure if on the yard and aware of the people involved here, you would have very different thoughts!!! I have no desire to be involved in any personal attacks on anyone here however I have done as I wanted to and posted my response
Regards

Totally agree that you can only really know the truth if you are there. Everything else is just our opinion.. Respect to you.

 

[Wagtail]

I don't actually know that. Thats just something that someone posted on a forum, and we all know how you get untrue postings on both sides....

I'm just going off the photo evidence that I can see with my own eyes...

The OP herself said the horse was left with a small net for the night. We all know that a small net left at 5 pm will be eaten within an hour or so. If she then returned by 7 am in the morning it would mean the horse is without forage for at least 12 hours out of every 24. Do you think that is acceptable?

 

[Honey08]

Its not ideal, but I still don't think the horse looks underweight. My two are having to come in during the day as they are so fat, and they will stand for a good few hours once they've finished their hay (3-4 probably) but having had two that got laminitis in the past its all I can do. Double nets add on an hour perhaps to how long the nets last. Add lib hay would be dangerous for these horses.

 

[Wagtail]

Its not ideal, but I still don't think the horse looks underweight. My two are having to come in during the day as they are so fat, and they will stand for a good few hours once they've finished their hay (3-4 probably) but having had two that got laminitis in the past its all I can do. Double nets add on an hour perhaps to how long the nets last. Add lib hay would be dangerous for these horses.

I think there is a vast difference between standing without forage for 3 - 4 hours and standing without forage for 12 - 14 hours. I always hate it if I have to starve a horse for 12 hours before a veterinary procedure. But even that is only 12 hours. To do that every day is going to play havoc with the horse's digestive system.

 

[Eventa]

Hi reading the above posts and wanted to also mention that the horse in question has no specific dietary needs other than to be kept slim.
At no time did I ever say the horse was underweight, I said that he lacked condition and top line for the size of his frame and that he was left with nothing to eat from 7pm the night before.
Also in respect of "being caught" giving haylage in the morning, I was in the yard that morning, the horse was nickering as I walked past him to go out of the yard, at that point the owner arrived and I said "ah thats why he is nickering -because you are here, I thought he was doing it at me" in a friendly light hearted manner. I was not "caught putting haylage in at all".
Just to clear that up as well.
Anway I have had my say and all I truly hope is that, as the young girl involved will ask absolutely no one for advice on the yard and takes no advice on board in any case, all i truly hope is that she educates herself more from books, magazines etc and her horse will benefit hugely.
All we all ever want is the best for all horses and had I known that offering a small bit of advice and simple observation (as i did not even know if they knew how quickly the haynet was eaten) Had I known it would lead to this I would never have tried to offer support.
Burnt and bridges springs to mind lol!!

 

[Wagtail]

Is she feeding the horse more now?

 

[rhino]

My two are having to come in during the day as they are so fat, and they will stand for a good few hours once they've finished their hay (3-4 probably) but having had two that got laminitis in the past its all I can do. Double nets add on an hour perhaps to how long the nets last. Add lib hay would be dangerous for these horses.

I think that a 3 or 4 hours is a bit different for 12+, if that is indeed what was happening. I quite agree that ad lib, good quality, unsoaked hay would be dangerous, as yours are overweight. Laminitis is not fun!

Do you also feed your horses scoops of oats and conditioning mix, and are you attempting to build up their topline? That's what OP stated she was doing, which is why I really didn't understand her feeding regime.

Take away the hard feed, add a vit supplement, and the resulting calorie 'deficiency' could provide a decent amount more forage, especially if it was soaked etc. Much better, physically and mentally, for the horse IMO.

 

[Kiristamm]

I think that a 3 or 4 hours is a bit different for 12+, if that is indeed what was happening. I quite agree that ad lib, good quality, unsoaked hay would be dangerous, as yours are overweight. Laminitis is not fun!

Do you also feed your two horses scoops of oats and conditioning mix, and are you attempting to build up their topline? That's what OP stated she was doing, which is why I really didn't understand her feeding regime.

Take away the hard feed, add a vit supplement, and the resulting calorie 'deficiency' could provide a decent amount more forage, especially if it was soaked etc. Much better, physically and mentally, for the horse IMO.

well said

 

[Miss L Toe]

Is she feeding the horse more now?

chuckles....... obviously not, as the OP considers her horse is properly looked after, and is in perfect condition, therefore she needs neither advice not forage.

 

[rockysmum]

I've kept out of this up to now as I know mine tend towards show condition

However I do think he is underweight, I know I will get shot down, but what the hell.

He is a large framed horse and fit or not I would be embarrased if he was mine. And heaven knows what he would have looked like if people had not given him a bit extra.

Shame for the poor boy that someone isn't throwing him a bit extra but I dont agree with doing that. Far better to have let him loose a bit more condition and then the OP might actually listen.

Did I read he was thoroughbred x warmblood - must have been a very heavy warmblood.

 

[Arabelle]

Well Eventa, you lost it for me when you couldn't resist adding a dig at the OP for allegedly leaving her horse out in winter to punish it. That made you seem like you wanted to have a go at the OP more than you wanted to help her horse.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Totally off topic, but clicked on pic in OP's siggy

OP your martigale should be fitted to the top ring if you have double reins on a gag.

Also didn't I see you posting a while back that you got large bales of hay for £20? (sorry if I have the wrong person), but if you do why the hell would you not make the most of that and reduce the hard feed (add vit/mins if necessary) and increase his hay to maintain his weight, hell at those prices you would save a packet and your horse would be better for it.

 

[Wagtail]

Well Eventa, you lost it for me when you couldn't resist adding a dig at the OP for allegedly leaving her horse out in winter to punish it. That made you seem like you wanted to have a go at the OP more than you wanted to help her horse.

That wasn't a dig! I read it as trying to illustrate just how inapproriate her horse management is.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Horses look 'fatter' in photos than they do IRL. I really struggled to keep weight on one of my horses over the winter because she stopped eating her hard feeds. I tried different brands of feed to tempt her and all the while she had ad lib hay (the hay feeder was never empty). She was ribby, lost muscle and had hollows by her hips and yet in photos, she just looked a bit lean.

 

[shep3]

He looks like a plank to me.

 

[You Wont Forget Me]

Well Eventa, you lost it for me when you couldn't resist adding a dig at the OP for allegedly leaving her horse out in winter to punish it. That made you seem like you wanted to have a go at the OP more than you wanted to help her horse.

Just to clear things up at no point did i EVER leave my horse out in winter with no rugs and food!!!! And also he is not left everynight from 7 till 7 or 9 the next morning as most nights he isnt even in until 8 pm and is turned out at 6.30am!!

I have also taken on the advice given by many of you and the horse is now given a bigger haynet doubled up at night to last him longer and we are also working on his topline at the moment too, i will keep you updated on how we get on!

 

[Holly Hocks]

Eventa - thank you for coming on the forum and putting your side of the story across. You sound like an extremely level-headed, experienced horsewoman who has tried to help. Don't let this put you off trying to help other people in the future. Most people would be extremely grateful for advice from someone like yourself.

 

[Eventa]

Yes you are quite correct the horse was not left out overnight. The horse was left in his stable and when normally rugged with at least two rugs he was left with no rug on and it was mid winter. He was denied his usual feed and all because he schooled badly.this is fact and was witnessed This is sadly true. I am glad to see that now the horse has two hay nets however this could have been avoided if some well meaning guidance had been taken on board in the genuine way in which it was meant.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I have also taken on the advice given by many of you and the horse is now given a bigger haynet doubled up at night to last him longer and we are also working on his topline at the moment too, i will keep you updated on how we get on!

Fantastic.

 

[Eventa]

Dear holly hocks many thanks for your kind words. Indeed i only ever try to help people and in this case that was all i tried to do. I am not remotely interested in childish mud slinging behaviour, we are all horse lovers and i myself took on an ex race horse when he was 10 and incredibly just off the track! I had to learn quickly about feeding. Thank you for your understanding. Unfortunately not everyone likes to learn from each other which is unfortunate. Regards.

 

[Mrs B]

OK.

Well to me, OP, if your horse is 6, is having the forage you say he needs (plus the extra Eventa has been giving him) and has the work load you describe, I'd say he looks pretty poor. Not skinny, just poor for what I would expect to see, especially for a nice looking lad with such a big frame.

He has no top line, no bum muscle and in the ridden pics, no real outline. I appreciate you are young but as for the photos where you're lying along his back, backwards and forwards, that doesn't say to me; 'Look how good her horse is/how good she is', it says to me 'She was bloody lucky when this pic was taken that nothing went wrong'.

He's a young horse and you were taking a chance which could have badly backfired... If he'd been 15+ and a steady sort, I could have understood, but with a 6 year old, as his owner, I'd expect you to have acted more maturely to show you knew how to act around a youngster.

I know you keep saying "I've taken it on board", but only time will tell if you have, or whether you're saying on the forum to get people off your back...

We'll see.

 

[Ibblebibble]

Eventa - thank you for coming on the forum and putting your side of the story across. You sound like an extremely level-headed, experienced horsewoman who has tried to help. Don't let this put you off trying to help other people in the future. Most people would be extremely grateful for advice from someone like yourself.

it usually depends on how the advice is given don't you think, Eventa gives the impression she thinks the OP is an ignorant teen, therefore i can imagine that came across when she was giving her advice. The 'i am older and more experienced therefore you must listen to me' type of advice is rarely well received

Yes you are quite correct the horse was not left out overnight. The horse was left in his stable and when normally rugged with at least two rugs he was left with no rug on and it was mid winter. He was denied his usual feed and all because he schooled badly.this is fact and was witnessed This is sadly true. I am glad to see that now the horse has two hay nets however this could have been avoided if some well meaning guidance had been taken on board in the genuine way in which it was meant.

so what did you do about that? did you talk to the YO? have you spoken with the YO about any of your concerns regarding the OP and her horse. That would be correct procedure IMO, rather than taking it upon yourself to feed the horse without it's owners permission. At the end of the day it is not your place to try and educate the OP unless she asks for it, if you have concerns go to the YO, if they can't/won't help and you have genuine concerns about the horses well being phone the BHS and get them to send a welfare officer out!

 

[Shysmum]

^^^^ THIS !!!

the most damned sense said so far imho.

 

[rhino]

it usually depends on how the advice is given don't you think, Eventa gives the impression she thinks the OP is an ignorant teen, therefore i can imagine that came across when she was giving her advice. The 'i am older and more experienced therefore you must listen to me' type of advice is rarely well received

Except she spoke to OP's mum, not OP

Agree with 2nd point though, but I feel bad for any YO's, threads like this convince me I'd never want to own a DIY yard!

 

[Miss L Toe]

if they can't/won't help and you have genuine concerns about the horses well being phone the BHS and get them to send a welfare officer out!

.....................and then you will be thrown off the yard

 

[Holly Hocks]

it usually depends on how the advice is given don't you think, Eventa gives the impression she thinks the OP is an ignorant teen, therefore i can imagine that came across when she was giving her advice. The 'i am older and more experienced therefore you must listen to me' type of advice is rarely well received

Like the rest of us, we can only go off what we read on here and having read the OP's posts and Eventa's posts, I know who's camp I'm in thanks.