Ibblebibble
Well-Known Member
i don't feel the need to take any side,
The OP's feeding may not have been adequate for her horse and his level of work but Eventa had no right to feed the horse without it's owners knowledge or permission.
My horse is 'seriously underweight'
- Thread starter You Wont Forget Me
- Start date
i don't feel the need to take any side,
The OP's feeding may not have been adequate for her horse and his level of work but Eventa had no right to feed the horse without it's owners knowledge or permission.
Eventa
Member
Correct the advice was given to her mother and only because her mother has previously asked various advice. The yard manager was the one who correctly witnessed and then addressed the one "no rug and no tea" behaviour. With regard to speaking to the yard owner, its the manager who addresses these issues. It was brought to her attention in a professional manner. How and if it was dealt with is then up to management. My posts are simply to put my side of this across which i have done. Not everyone Will agree with one course of action and we all have different opinions.many thanks for taking the time to read my input.
Chavhorse
Well-Known Member
it usually depends on how the advice is given don't you think, Eventa gives the impression she thinks the OP is an ignorant teen, therefore i can imagine that came across when she was giving her advice. The 'i am older and more experienced therefore you must listen to me' type of advice is rarely well received
so what did you do about that? did you talk to the YO? have you spoken with the YO about any of your concerns regarding the OP and her horse. That would be correct procedure IMO, rather than taking it upon yourself to feed the horse without it's owners permission. At the end of the day it is not your place to try and educate the OP unless she asks for it, if you have concerns go to the YO, if they can't/won't help and you have genuine concerns about the horses well being phone the BHS and get them to send a welfare officer out!
^^^^^^^^^
100% This.
Any concerns about any horse on the yard that you do not own should be raised with the YO and they should then deal with it as YO they have the ultimate duty of care.
My YO would not be best pleased at random liveries giving "guidance" to others she would expect quite rightly that any concerns or worries were quietly(i.e. not gosspied or bitched about in the tea room first!) brought up with her in the first instance so she could deal with it without World War III breaking out.
Dukey
Well-Known Member
Hi sorry I was trying to read this post through but it took too long (I got to page 12)! Anyway my boy has just turned 6, is like yours ridden 6 days a week (mixture of schooling, lessons, competitions, hacking, jumping). He is a TBxWelsh but built more like a heavyish TB at nearly 17hh. He has just been on the Spillers weigh bridge and given the condition score of 5 but when I brought him last year it was a 4.
From what I can see in your pictures I think ur horse needs more muscle and looks very simliar to my boy last year. Now his bum is rounded, neck is shaped and looking more toned and muscley. I'm on my phone but will try a picture tomorrow! On the advice of Spillers I am feeding him a Lite chaff, carrots and a performance balencer. The balencer has a good level of protien for the muscle development. He's out from 9 til 4 on very rich grass. And has a large haynet at night with a small tub of hay with his breakfast at 6am (ish). This has ensured he has kept a good condition score, his coat is shining and looks FIT. If that makes sense?
Your boy, looks like he could do with a little extra to help the muscle development. But like others have said this goes hand in hand with the right level of work. As he does the same level of work as my lad I would advise looking at the balencers..?
Hope that helps, the weigh bridges are great and come to your yard for free. It might be worth seeing if there's one in your area?
As for someone else feeding my horse like you I would be mad, is it worth talking to her to see why, what how much?
From what I can see in your pictures I think ur horse needs more muscle and looks very simliar to my boy last year. Now his bum is rounded, neck is shaped and looking more toned and muscley. I'm on my phone but will try a picture tomorrow! On the advice of Spillers I am feeding him a Lite chaff, carrots and a performance balencer. The balencer has a good level of protien for the muscle development. He's out from 9 til 4 on very rich grass. And has a large haynet at night with a small tub of hay with his breakfast at 6am (ish). This has ensured he has kept a good condition score, his coat is shining and looks FIT. If that makes sense?
Your boy, looks like he could do with a little extra to help the muscle development. But like others have said this goes hand in hand with the right level of work. As he does the same level of work as my lad I would advise looking at the balencers..?
Hope that helps, the weigh bridges are great and come to your yard for free. It might be worth seeing if there's one in your area?
As for someone else feeding my horse like you I would be mad, is it worth talking to her to see why, what how much?
AmyMay
Situation normal
So van owners not talk to each other on your yard chavhorse??
Dukey
Well-Known Member
Sorry just read that she's on here! I wouldn't cause a huge issue maybe thank Eventa for her concern but get in a professional? I.e a vet or feeding specialist?
Sorry Eventa but maybe that would help the non-horsey mum understand?
Sorry Eventa but maybe that would help the non-horsey mum understand?
Chavhorse
Well-Known Member
If you mean owners of course we all talk to each other but if for instance I thought teens horse x was not being fed enough I would raise it with my YO who a) would in all probability have more knowledge of what was going on anyhow and b) I and she would consider it her job to have a quiet word which is probably better done in a "hey lets go through what X is doing work wise and what feed he is getting and see what advice we can find to get him looking a little less lean oh and whilst we are about it lets look at some excercises for his topline so he looks really fab" My YO has the respect of all her liveries so she is listened to.
If we are refurring to the incident with the rig and the feed (which the OP denies so we have no idea as to its validity) I can think of not one of even the youngsters on the yard who would think for a minute this was acceptable and if anyone did the YO and Headgirl would have them rugging and feeding within 2 minutes and a stern word with mum about teenage tantrums and not the right way of doing things.
Queenofdiamonds
Well-Known Member
For those that are saying Eventa had no right to feed the horse - From her post i got the impression that this is standard procedure if the horse has ran out of hay for the first to notice to chuck some over, Unless the horse has special dietry requirements? So it wasn't really like she did it without permission? And any other horse would have been dealt with the same excluding those with special dietry requirements?
Firewell
Well-Known Member
I dont think he looks especially great. He's not seriously underweight at all but he does look like he is lacking in a bit of topline and condition. I would be wanting more on him if he was mine. However I do not think people should interfere if they weren't asked. Its not as if he is rescue case or anything.
Parker79
Well-Known Member
This one is hard to judge...as we can only go by what way posts are written.
OP - can you clarify (if you want to) about the no feed/no rug thing.
Eventa - It sounds like you are meaning well - but I do not understand why you are choosing to get involved...it should be the YO. It sounds like you are looking out for the horses welfare...but sometimes you just cannot get involved and you must inform the YO to deal with it...putting hay in another horses stable without permission is wrong. Either the YO should have done it or they should have insisted that the OP did.
BTW - No horse should be left for that long without hay or at least a bed to nibble on.....all haynets should be weighed unless offering adlib IMO
OP - can you clarify (if you want to) about the no feed/no rug thing.
Eventa - It sounds like you are meaning well - but I do not understand why you are choosing to get involved...it should be the YO. It sounds like you are looking out for the horses welfare...but sometimes you just cannot get involved and you must inform the YO to deal with it...putting hay in another horses stable without permission is wrong. Either the YO should have done it or they should have insisted that the OP did.
BTW - No horse should be left for that long without hay or at least a bed to nibble on.....all haynets should be weighed unless offering adlib IMO
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Eventa got involved because the OP's Mum asked her for advice on several occasions. Also in another post Eventa said the Yard Manager had been involved.
To be fair, Eventa only appears to have come here as she saw her own actions being (in her opinion) untruthfully described. I can't say I blame her for wanting to step in and put the record straight!
Natch
Well-Known Member
i don't feel the need to take any side,
This.
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
If this is yard policy, then it's not one person's interfering you'd want to question, it's that policy. I don't think I'd want people chucking hay over for Mollie unless I asked them to, but if that's what this yard does, it's not quite the same as one person sticking their oar in because they think your horse is thin.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
Couldnt be bothered to read all these posts . looked at the pictures on page one. Whilst pictures can be deceptive, that horse looks thin to me.
Natch
Well-Known Member
True Fiona, but I read eventa's post as it being normal for people on livery yards she has been on in the past to chuck hay at other people's horses - with or without the owner's knowledge.
If the yard in question has a policy that no horse is left with no hay by whoever is at the yard last, then the OP doesn't have a leg to stand on as she should know the score. Still doesn't excuse anybody for feeding a horse without the owner's knowledge and permission (save for rescue circumstances, which this is not).
If the yard in question has a policy that no horse is left with no hay by whoever is at the yard last, then the OP doesn't have a leg to stand on as she should know the score. Still doesn't excuse anybody for feeding a horse without the owner's knowledge and permission (save for rescue circumstances, which this is not).
Parker79
Well-Known Member
I dont blame her at all for wanting to put her side across. I still think that if the YO is involved that should be the end of it....there should have been no hay fed to this horse unless the YO or livery did it.
I agree it is unacceptable for any horse to be left for long periods (although I realise the OP says this isn't the case). Giving additional hay without permission is not the best way to deal with this...as it doesn't help the OP and will only benefit the horse short term.
I am soooo glad I am no longer on a DIY yard....can be very difficult.
Anyway....OP is feeding more now so hopefully all is well
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Hmmm yes on closer inspection:
.
It's not clear if it's standard practice on this yard. However if someone gave Mollie hay because she'd finished hers by 7pm, I'd be a little annoyed they'd done so without asking, but I'd also increase her hay, and double up the haynet to make it last.
zoelouisem
Well-Known Member
Oh dear how things can get out of hand on here it's taken me ages to read this!!!
Horse is what id call underweight but not how I would keep it. But I think it's more the muscle tone than needing more fat as most have pointed out.
But as op did point out and nobody seems to have picked up on horse has been on 2 months box rest a little while back I would expect it to be lacking muscle and sometimes weight does drop off when work is being upped untill the fitness levels catch up.
As for the feeder she states horse has no hay from 7 and op states she's leaves around then. I'm actually leaning toward the op been more accurate as I have a daughter who I take up every evening to ride by the time we've travelled there caught in groomed tacked up ridden untracked brushed off stable sorted ect pony usually goes in 6.30 if I'm lucky but more 7. I wonder if feeder is slightly exaggerating on the times???
Op I do wonder if your feeding could be swapped around abit to suit your horse a bit better because I can't imagine feeding 2 high energy feeds you are are that great for the horse but I think that maybe chatting to your instructor on a feed/work/muscling plan might be a good idea they can then work with to do the correct exercises to help your horses top line. I know when I was a teenager I was slightly guilty of having my horses head 'pretty' but them not enagaging back and quarters correctly. That was through lack of knowledge and not a dig at you as we all have to learn somewhere.
Anyway good luck he looks the type where your going to have loads of fun.
Horse is what id call underweight but not how I would keep it. But I think it's more the muscle tone than needing more fat as most have pointed out.
But as op did point out and nobody seems to have picked up on horse has been on 2 months box rest a little while back I would expect it to be lacking muscle and sometimes weight does drop off when work is being upped untill the fitness levels catch up.
As for the feeder she states horse has no hay from 7 and op states she's leaves around then. I'm actually leaning toward the op been more accurate as I have a daughter who I take up every evening to ride by the time we've travelled there caught in groomed tacked up ridden untracked brushed off stable sorted ect pony usually goes in 6.30 if I'm lucky but more 7. I wonder if feeder is slightly exaggerating on the times???
Op I do wonder if your feeding could be swapped around abit to suit your horse a bit better because I can't imagine feeding 2 high energy feeds you are are that great for the horse but I think that maybe chatting to your instructor on a feed/work/muscling plan might be a good idea they can then work with to do the correct exercises to help your horses top line. I know when I was a teenager I was slightly guilty of having my horses head 'pretty' but them not enagaging back and quarters correctly. That was through lack of knowledge and not a dig at you as we all have to learn somewhere.
Anyway good luck he looks the type where your going to have loads of fun.
Box_Of_Frogs
Well-Known Member
As mike007 - haven't read all the posts but pics on page 1 I'd say show a thin horse, and that's with whatever extra the other person has been feeding him. I wouldn't want a horse of mine to stand for hours without something for his trickle-feed gut to work on. Great way to get ulcers and/or an unhappy horse. Why don't you leave a haynet outside his stable - either soaked hay or hay/oat straw mix. Then he won't be without food and others would be able to feel they were doing something to help. But this doesn't detract from the fact that I think he's thin.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Being hnest if it was my oldie or my previous mare who had no hay left at that time of night I personally wouldn't have minded them getting extra with them not being the best of doers, especially in that amount of work.
Little S on the other hand she gets triple netted soaked Haynets when in as she's a VERY good doer so wouldn't want her getting any extra unless it was already pre soaked etc like her Haynets
But if someone was telling me she was without all that time then I'd have to lo at when she came in off her good doer field so that she wasn't without for such a long time.
Horse does need weight both muscle and girth and hopefully this will now be sorted and hopefully both horse and owner will be happy
Little S on the other hand she gets triple netted soaked Haynets when in as she's a VERY good doer so wouldn't want her getting any extra unless it was already pre soaked etc like her Haynets
But if someone was telling me she was without all that time then I'd have to lo at when she came in off her good doer field so that she wasn't without for such a long time.
Horse does need weight both muscle and girth and hopefully this will now be sorted and hopefully both horse and owner will be happy
Eventa
Member
Thank you Fiona m 12. You are right.
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
What a judgemental world we live in, always being right, never fully knowing what is going on before we leap in with accusations and 'I Am Always Right' statements, because we all class ourselves as experts....
M_G
Well-Known Member
Havent read the rest but totally agree with this 100%... If you have a problem with how someone is keeping their horse SPEAK to the owner
OldNag
Wasting my time successfully....
I don't know what is the "norm" on yards in general, having only been on one.
Personally if my horse had run out of hay that early on I'd appreciate someone throwing some over, as I like mine to trickle feed (but I'd make sure mine had enough to last the night in any case so this shouldn't arise).
However, If mine were on a restricted diet, I'd have a different view. But in this case the horse wasn't on a restricted diet (unless I've missed something).
As for the horse's condition - to me it does look a bit poor but I'm no expert. There has been some sound advice on here and OP has said she is taking it on board, so that is good.
What I'm slightly bemused by is, how Eventa knew about this thread - I'm assuming she wasn't already a member until this thread had started?
Personally if my horse had run out of hay that early on I'd appreciate someone throwing some over, as I like mine to trickle feed (but I'd make sure mine had enough to last the night in any case so this shouldn't arise).
However, If mine were on a restricted diet, I'd have a different view. But in this case the horse wasn't on a restricted diet (unless I've missed something).
As for the horse's condition - to me it does look a bit poor but I'm no expert. There has been some sound advice on here and OP has said she is taking it on board, so that is good.
What I'm slightly bemused by is, how Eventa knew about this thread - I'm assuming she wasn't already a member until this thread had started?
AmyMay
Situation normal
Horse world is awful small..............
Natch
Well-Known Member
Scarily so. We have seen several examples of exactly this happening on HHO recently. Eventa could have been one of the 100s who read but don't join the forum, or as Amymay suggests, she could have been alerted to the thread by someone who knows them both. Hopefully the OP will be a little more careful about when and how they broadcast information on the internet.
Eventa
Member
Hi yes i was alerted to this as i am by no means the only one who was concerned. I feel i have said all i want to on this matter and the whole thing could have been avoided in the first place. Thankfully the person appears to have taken on board the majority on here agreeing re his condition to hopefully that's the end of the matter. I am glad this was brought to my attention as this allowed me to post my reasoning.
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Well, yes, but also in my experience teenagers don't do anything without telling all their mates. I bet the yard was buzzing with chat about this thread
which of course would reach Eventa.
The_snoopster
Well-Known Member
I wont get drawn into wether the OP,s horse in too thin, or wether eventa should or should not have fed the OP,s horse without her knowledge, but I have read the OP on several occasions state she has taken all the advice on board and on her last post has stated she is feeding more hay. Therefor I think maybe this thread as done some good, the OP has maybe had her eyes opened to a new feeding plan, and the feeder has now realized that not everyone would thank her for the exra hay wether it was needed or not
Eventa
Member
Our local vet has a nurse who can come and condition score, offer advice on feeding and general care. Unfortunately not everyone is approachable to make suggestions to. In an ideal world we would all be able to speak to each other however some people are more sociable in that manner than others. I always ask for advice, others never ask anyone. I know op is aware of this free service but posted this instead of utilizing this service. Unfortunately most perceptions on the horses weight are based on opinion which is based on photographs. My suggestion would be the op asks the vet nurse to attend and assess the horse and formulate a management plan in the best interest of the horse. Hearing it direct from `the horses mouth` would i feel have been a way more effective way to tackle this issue. Its a shame it has become so blown out of proportion but hey ho that's life. The horse is now much happier and i am sure Will look better also very soon.