My horse is unsellable (sarcoids)

I can't believe all the people who are so against having the horse PTS. Being PTS is not the worst thing for a horse, by any means at all.

The market is dire for horses at the moment - even young, healthy ones are struggling to sell - this is not a horse that has a bit of a quirk, it has a serious, recurring condition that has already been treated several times and keeps coming back.

In your position OP, I would have the horse PTS. I think, fwiw, you've done the right thing by the horse so far, and I wouldn't listen to the bunny huggers who are so vehemently against having a horse PTS.
 
lialls said:
Hi R.A.H

I really feel for you, I had a TB mare with sarcoides put down as Liverpool didn't think treatment would be sucessful and my vets wern't hopeful either. She had them on the point of shoulder as well as other places so wouldn't be able to wear a rug and she was just general so depressed that it was the only kind thing to do. That put a side, Squid is totaly differnt.

Knowing your boy (old student) and how he coped with it last time i think that you have to get it treated now before it gets too much for him to cope with. I dont think that he coped badly with it but when it was at its worst it wasn't nice for him or us to deal with him. I remember helping treat him a couple of times, it was quite a mission as he was very guarded about it by then.

Personaly, I probly wouldn't sell him with it, mainly for fear that if it came back liek it did last time someone else would not get it treated.

How is he now with having the earat you look in to his gut not working properly too incase it was steming from that? Where did that go in the end? I'm just trying to think of anything that may help. Have you had a second opinion on it? What do the yard staff think? They know him well and have been managing it and doing some of the treatment on his ear, what do they think to do?

I do believe that if the yard staff thought he should be pts then they would say (if asked), personly i dont think its his time yet (though i havn't seen him for the last year so things might have changed).
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at the moment you can touch his and put bridle on etc. I'm worried that it grow like it did before. There is no noticable lump at the moment just a thickening of the skin. When the photos were sent off last time, prof knottenbelt said that laser treatment was only option and he weren't sure that would work. Its been nearly 12 months since the surgery so thought we were rid of the thing forever.
Staff at the college haven't really said much tbh.
 
Really feel for you and it sounds like your do whatever is right for him. It sounds as you've done everything right by him and I sure if you've seen professor knottenbelt (to anyone who hasn't heard of him I suspect he knows and cares more about sarcoids than anyone else in the world, he's amazing) their really isn't any point seeing anyone else.

I think people who have only seen benign sarcoids, think you are worrying about selling/PTS a horse with something equivalent to having warts whereas sarcoids are much better viewed as skin cancer. If you could find a genuine home for him then I suppose that would be the happiest solution for you but equally if you feel the sarcoids are getting to a point where he suffering excessively then by having him PTS you are continuing to look out for his best interests and behaving far more responsible than if you were to give him away - good on you.
 
Hi RAH
I really feel for you and you trying to do the best by your boy.
I have a gelding who has had sarcoids on many parts of his body for over 12 years. He has had every available treatment and last time had very radical surgery that took a long time to recover from. The areas around his belly and sheath have had no further recurrence but they have recurred ( to not a great extent) around his axilla. I decided last time after he colicked after his surgery in the hospital, at home and the wound breaking down several times that I would not put him through any more surgery. Thankfully the current ones have not changed for over 3 years. Of course he has long ran out of insurance.
There are so many stories about sarcoids but we do all know each horse is different and their sarcoids run an individual course and respond to different treatments.
I wonder if the Cleveland Bay Society would have someone looking for horse like yours!?! Apart from his sarcoids he sounds a treasure. As a breed that's low in numbers and not many on the market you may find a wonderful home for him. Sometimes through a society you will get someone who is more "reliable" than just taking pot luck through an advertisement. You could have a water tight loan agreement or "gift" arrangement with a clause that you are involved in his future if things
I don't think having a horse PTS is a bad thing. Far worse would be him having a home with someone who was not as committed to him as you are.
All the best with your boy
xx
 
fwiw, I would have had him in a second, (if I wasnt moving to the other side of the world shorly) and treated the sarcoids, schoolmaster types are hard to find, yes, I would have given him anything he required and a good home. I believe good homes do exist, and this type of horse would be very useful to someone. Sarcoids wouldnt put me of.
 
There are sarcoids and there are sarcoids.... There is an enormous difference between a small, stable sarcoid or two and the sort of aggressive tumour that your horse has. I do feel for you, OP. The first horse I ever broke in had several of this kind of aggressive sarcoid and it was horrid. They were so sore for her, bedding and hay were always getting stuck in the open sores, and the flies were terrible. Her owner had them all lasered but they started to come back a year later. Her owner then sold her before she got too bad again, and I heard on the grapevine that her new owner had taken to self treating them by burning them off with creosote :( She was such a sweet mare too, I often wonder what happened to her.

I wouldn't be put off by a small benign sarcoid on a horse (indeed both our arabs have one) but after dealing with Podge's painful aggressive tumours I can completely understand someone getting to the end of the road with them as they are a totally different kettle of fish.

I think you do have a moral responsibility to this horse, but I think you know that. If you do re-home him, he will still need you to look out for him. Personally I think I'd treat conservatively and make the most of him until his quality of life is affected. If the college are happy to keep him and he is happy there then all well and good. At the moment it looks OK and he's certainly not suffering at present, but having been here three times before you know what's coming.

I hope everything works out xxxxx
 
You have all my sympathy. My beloved TB had terrible sarcoids on his groin and willy - they appeared from nowhere within 2 years of me getting him and he had surgery and then several batches of Liverpool cream. Last January, after having been back in work for 2 months after 5 months off the worst offender reappeared in his groin. Both of the vets who had treated him came to have a look and said that they could continue treatment, which would be uncomfortable and be successful short term, or we could call a halt.

We thought long and hard and decided that at 17 he owed me nothing, he had been so patient through all of it and so good natured, and opted to wait for some spring grass and sunshine on his back and put him to sleep quietly in the field. It was so hard, but I knew that if I continued treatment it would be for my benefit, not his. Tragically he never got the spring grass and sunshine as he haemorraged from the wound site after mucking about in the field. The vet came out instantly and that was that - he said that the sarcoid had got into the artery and ruptured.

Every sarcoid is different and I don't dispute that many can be treated and controlled, but sometimes there is no option other than PTS - have a long conversation with the vet about the possible outcomes, costs and amount of time he thinks treatment will last. Ask for his honest opinion as to what he thinks is the best course of action. If you decide to have the horse pts, don't beat yourself up about it.
 
Is he a good jumper? Random but my college might need a safe, half talented jump horse. He could stay over the summer too or if a student looks after him he can go home with them. You would still own him but he would have a long term home until retirement....
 
No idea, I was thinking about him Tuesday when I lost my lad..

Hope OP is okay whatever is decided..
 
xspiralx said:
I can't believe all the people who are so against having the horse PTS. Being PTS is not the worst thing for a horse, by any means at all.

The market is dire for horses at the moment - even young, healthy ones are struggling to sell - this is not a horse that has a bit of a quirk, it has a serious, recurring condition that has already been treated several times and keeps coming back.

In your position OP, I would have the horse PTS. I think, fwiw, you've done the right thing by the horse so far, and I wouldn't listen to the bunny huggers who are so vehemently against having a horse PTS.
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?????????????? So you think its better that the poor horse DIES then has the opportunity to go to a loving home????????? :mad::mad::mad::mad:
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
As long as you are honest with any perspective new owners about the horses condition there is a good chance someone will want to take him on even if he does end up losing his ear there is no reason why he could not be a companion horse. Don`t give up on him, it might not even come back! However you must still check on him and make sure he is not left to suffer in the wrong hands.
 
all about Romeo said:
?????????????? So you think its better that the poor horse DIES then has the opportunity to go to a loving home????????? :mad::mad::mad::mad:
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
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Except it is already back :confused: Yes, in an ideal world every horse would live happily ever after, however in the real world there are thousands of perfectly healthy horses who can't find homes. It is not irresponsible to pts a horse.
 
rhino said:
Except it is already back :confused: Yes, in an ideal world every horse would live happily ever after, however in the real world there are thousands of perfectly healthy horses who can't find homes. It is not irresponsible to pts a horse.
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And you think that's acceptable? the reality is most of these horses are rehomeable and there are good homes who would be willing to take these horses on! Its is irresponsible to put a good horse to sleep! they are not disposable! they are living creatures who should not been thrown away when no longer of use to the owner! the only circumstances where being PTS is the best option is if the horse is severely injured, dying already or is dangerous.
 
all about Romeo said:
And you think that's acceptable? the reality is most of these horses are rehomeable and there are good homes who would be willing to take these horses on! Its is irresponsible to put a good horse to sleep! they are not disposable! they are living creatures who should not been thrown away when no longer of use to the owner! the only circumstances where being PTS is the best option is if the horse is severely injured, dying already or is dangerous.
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Oh dear....you need to be in the real world.
 
all about Romeo said:
And you think that's acceptable? the reality is most of these horses are rehomeable and there are good homes who would be willing to take these horses on!
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Yes I think it is acceptable. If there really are all those good homes out there you claim there are, then why are all the rescue centres overflowing? Why are horses and ponies being pushed through bottom end auctions for a pound or two? Why are box loads being shipped off for slaughter each and every week?

Like I said, in the real world people have to do what is best for their horses, and pts is a viable consideration.
 
OK well you take the horse on, are you prepared to repeatedly pay £800 for treatment?! When he loses his ear completely what is to stop another sarcoid growing on the site of where the ear used to be and going internal?
This isn't a healthy horse that someone doesn't want anymore, this is a horse with a serious (yes SOME sarcoids are serious) health issue that the owner has bent over backwards to try to fix. Besides would you want to put a horse through invasive surgery over and over again? Be realistic.

OP I would pts, you have done your best and there seems to be nothing else you can do.
 
Did you see the pictures? The OP is a caring, responsible horse owner whose horse has an evil, aggressive, recurrent form of skin cancer. My horse has a small warty sarcoid - at the mo no problem. If it was like her horse's... I would be thinking about quality of life. Then there Might be secondaries to consider. Owning any animal, I believe, brings great joy but comes with the responsibility of being big enough to make difficult decisions with the animal's best interests in mind. They can't speak.
 
all about Romeo said:
I am in the real world and I think its pretty sickening if you think its acceptable to kill a horse because its no longer of use to that person.
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Except in this case it's not about the horse being of no use to the owner is it?
It is suffering with a debilitating condition that keeps recurring. Not everyone has endless pots of money to keep treating an aggressive sarcoid and neither will the insurance pay out forever.

The condition is affecting the horse's quality of life and not doing the OP too many favours in the feel good stakes either.

Perhaps you would be happy to offer a home then?
 
rhino said:
Yes I think it is acceptable. If there really are all those good homes out there you claim there are, then why are all the rescue centres overflowing? Why are horses and ponies being pushed through bottom end auctions for a pound or two? Why are box loads being shipped off for slaughter each and every week?

Like I said, in the real world people have to do what is best for their horses, and pts is a viable consideration.
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These horses have been RESCUED from people who have neglected and abused them, not horses that are being given away... unfortunately people can be very cruel and such rescued horses need specialist care (which the average horse owner can not provide) The horses that are being pushed through sales have no history and can often be the dangerous horses that dealers and dodgy people are trying to get rid of quick including stolen horses. It is much easier to privately advertise a horse free to good home and provide full history and be a source of reliability who obviously care about the horse... that is the difference.
 
but what happens if the person you give your horse away to isn't as great as they first made out? and they neglect the horse/don't pay for expensive sarcoid treatment and then it ends up in rescue..

of what if they pass it on, to someone you know nothing about and the same happens...

what if they put it through the sales with no history..
 
all about Romeo said:
These horses have been RESCUED from people who have neglected and abused them, not horses that are being given away... unfortunately people can be very cruel and such rescued horses need specialist care (which the average horse owner can not provide) The horses that are being pushed through sales have no history and can often be the dangerous horses that dealers and dodgy people are trying to get rid of quick including stolen horses. It is much easier to privately advertise a horse free to good home and provide full history and be a source of reliability who obviously care about the horse... that is the difference.
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And just as easy for someone to think "Whoopee, free horsie", feed teh owner a load of bullsh, take it on, neglect the hugely expensive specialist veterinary care - and for the poor thing to end up as one of those neglected rescue cases you refer to.

This is not a horse that should be advertised cheaply, or free to a good home. I absolutely sympathise with the owner, who has done the best by her horse, and may well have to make a difficult decision, based on the best interests of a horse with a nasty life limiting condition that isnt going to go away.
 
Always Henesy said:
Except in this case it's not about the horse being of no use to the owner is it?
It is suffering with a debilitating condition that keeps recurring. Not everyone has endless pots of money to keep treating an aggressive sarcoid and neither will the insurance pay out forever.

The condition is affecting the horse's quality of life and not doing the OP too many favours in the feel good stakes either.

Perhaps you would be happy to offer a home then?
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My original post was not about this horse in particular... I was replying to someone who was saying if a horse is not sellable its ok to kill it, that's what I am protesting about. Im sure the lady with this horse will do what is best for him in the end but I don`t agree with people who think its ok to kill a horse just because its no longer of use to the owner. As I stated earlier if the horse is serverley injured, dying already or is dangerous the PTS is the best option. I have happily provided homes to all the horses I have had over the years because of people wanting to get rid to save them from a bullet to the head, and I will probably continue to do so.
 
ester said:
but what happens if the person you give your horse away to isn't as great as they first made out? and they neglect the horse/don't pay for expensive sarcoid treatment and then it ends up in rescue..

of what if they pass it on, to someone you know nothing about and the same happens...

what if they put it through the sales with no history..
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I did say before that the owner would have to check the horse was ok and didn't end up in bad hands, it is not worth it to see the horse in a happy home? provided his quality of life was still ok.
 
all about Romeo said:
My original post was not about this horse in particular... I was replying to someone who was saying if a horse is not sellable its ok to kill it, that's what I am protesting about. Im sure the lady with this horse will do what is best for him in the end but I don`t agree with people who think its ok to kill a horse just because its no longer of use to the owner. As I stated earlier if the horse is serverley injured, dying already or is dangerous the PTS is the best option. I have happily provided homes to all the horses I have had over the years because of people wanting to get rid to save them from a bullet to the head, and I will probably continue to do so.
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Well it's great that you are able to do that, however go to any low end sale and you'll find hundreds of horses and ponies that need homes, you can't save them all unfortunately. There are far more horses than there are good homes, something has to give.
 
Auslander said:
And just as easy for someone to think "Whoopee, free horsie", feed teh owner a load of bullsh, take it on, neglect the hugely expensive specialist veterinary care - and for the poor thing to end up as one of those neglected rescue cases you refer to.

This is not a horse that should be advertised cheaply, or free to a good home. I absolutely sympathise with the owner, who has done the best by her horse, and may well have to make a difficult decision, based on the best interests of a horse with a nasty life limiting condition that isnt going to go away.
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I AM NOT talking about advertising a horse free to good home and give it to the first person who comes along and then wash your hands of it for the poor thing to end up anywhere!
I AM talking about carefully selecting potentional homes for the place to best suit your horse, then REGULARLY checking on his welfare and possibly putting some sort of contract in place to protect him.
(we all heard about the lady who put her horse out on loan to find he had ended up being slaughtered) :(:(:(
 
all about Romeo said:
I did say before that the owner would have to check the horse was ok and didn't end up in bad hands, it is not worth it to see the horse in a happy home? provided his quality of life was still ok.
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ah ok, and keeping yourself responsible for all of his veterinary fees, what if you aren't in a financial position to do that?

and it isn't just that it isn't saleable that is the problem, he has an aggresive, recurrent form of skin cancer which will likely cause his demise sooner or later.. unless he dies of something else first, and if I were his owner I am not sure I would think it in his best welfare interests to keep putting him through surgery.
 
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My loan horse has a massive sarcoid on his leg, a few on his sheath and 1 starting on his bum. I'm definatly going to buy him as to me his personality and how we click is more important than anything. To be honest i know he will never be a show horse but thats not what i want. I want a horse that does dressage, jumping and ode.
 
R.A.H said:
I have paid alot of money for this horse and have put alot of time, money and effort trying to get him right. So it's not a decision i will make lightly. I will see what the vet says but i don't think i'll go down the laser surgery route again. I will have to see at what rate it grows. If it would stay the same size and not get the size of a tennis ball then it would be managable. Time will tell.[/QUOTE

Last year my mare developed a sarcoid I had vet out and he discussed same options and route that you went.Before i made decision I tried thuja cream on two recommedations from friends both had experience of sarcoids and one of them was size of tennis ball.The cream has successfully treated all our horses ,friends horse that had very large one hasnt even got a scar.I do feel this is good option and its cheap and pain free. You can buy cream online I used hilton herbs and it cost £25 approx.Good luck :)
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