My horse knocked my mum down - wwyd?

[sandi_84]

Sorry this will be epic!

Ok so those of you who may be familiar with my posts know I'm really anti-treating when it comes to my horse.

He's a total plod and very sweet, he would never hurt a person on purpose but he does get a bit rude if you treat him and he thinks he'll get more out of you.

I will occasionally treat as a surprise but it is literally once every 3-4 months or if he's done something paticularly stressful for him and he's behaved well - like putting suncream on his nose (a big scary deal for him) or after he'd had his teeth and jabs done the other week (again a big scary deal for him).

My mum on the other hand is literally a walking vending machine for horse treats and she doesn't just give one, she hands them out regularly while she's doing whatever she's doing at the field. So poo picking with the horses loose means that she is followed extremely closely by all three horses nudging her and pulling faces at each other while she hands out the horse treats as she goes.

I was picking out Loki's feet one particular day while he was loose in the field (I know it's a bit of a H&S nightmare but he's pretty good at letting me get on with it) and she rocked up in the car and started calling him even though it was pretty clear what I was doing. He was facing away from the fence where mum was calling from so he put all his weight on the foot (hind) I was holding to get it down, turned round me (instead of away from me) and ran towards her. I explained as patiently as I could how dangerous that was of her to do that, he could have knocked me over or kicked out in excitement or stood on me when he put his foot down etc so she stopped calling for him when she comes to the field if I'm doing something with him.

It took me ages to stop her from treating Loki because he was getting really pushy with her, it took a bit of an argument and him accidentally headbutting her for her to finally stop doing it and she still asks if she can give him something

Anyway because she continued to regularly treat him even after I'd asked her to stop it means that he still expects it from her months on and knows that she'll be feeding the other 2.

She was standing between her mare and my boy today just after handing round the treats, she held out her hand for her horse to lick and Loki thought she was getting another one and lunged at Pippa knocking my mum over in the process!

She is ok, she luckily didn't get trampled or stuck in the middle of a kick fight but I think she's bruised her arm from landing on it.

After this happened and I had made sure mum was alright I chased Loki off but obviously because Pippa was straight back at mum for more treats he kept coming back over to her and she wasn't effectively shooing him away again and kept getting stuck between them.

As she left the field they all followed the walking treat machine so I caught hold of Loki's rug to stop him and to stop the inevitable grouping around her at the gate and she bleeding well treated the other two again!

Now I know I can't really stop her from treating her own or my sister's pony but she doesn't seem to be able to understand what kind of a dangerous position she is putting herself in even after what happened today.

Sorry if I sound like an insensitive little booger, I'm worried that it could have been a lot worse and that makes me a bit mad for some reason :/

WWYD? Is there anything you could do really? I don't know :/
I can't move him atm and otherwise the horses all get on great together so I don't want to seperate him away from the other 2.

 

[swalk]

Know just how you feel! I have told my Mum's partner Derek (as has she) so many times not to titbit the horses and he swears blind that he isn't despite there being bits of bread in the stables and the fact that we keep getting nipped! It's very frustrating but I would have though this episode would have made your Mum think again. Perhaps I can arrange for Derek to be trampled by one of ours ......

 

[Rose Folly]

I think you're making a big incident out of a little one, really. It's annoying that your mother can't see that giving the horses treats in your situation is causing problems - but as she can't then really there's nothing you can do. Not all horses are pushy over treats. But I don't think it's that big an issue, and I certainly wouldn't be considering separating/moving the horses.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Wait until everything's settled down again and then talk to your mum about how worried you were when she was knocked over, how much worse her injuries could have been and why it happened. We do give our horses treats as part of their routine (for being caught etc) but I would never walk though a field full of horses and hand out treats randomly - it's just asking for trouble!
My guess is that your mum lacks confidence around the horses and gives out treats because she wants them to like her, in fact she is going to find that they fight around her, especially if she's not giving them all treats at the same time.
Rather than asking her to stop altogether, could you ask her to only give treats at a particular time (feed time or whenever is best for you all)?
You really do need to get this sorted out before there is a serious accident.

 

[babymare]

Having expericing being told to look for a finger(little finger with beautifully manicured nail btw) in a bed which had been bitten clean off and finding it many years ago working for horse charity where visitors were allowed to feed titbits (though that was stopped) i have since had strict rule no treats by hand at all . always on floor or bucket

 

[Spring Feather]

I'd ban her from the field. I have over 50 horses here and no-one treats the horses in the field. If treats are given they are given out of the field on a one to one basis, never ever to a herd. I wouldn't care if it was my mother or a total stranger, it's not on, an accident could occur and I'm not being responsible for that. My mother however would never do that as she's more than happy to cuddle and scratch the horses, as are most people who come to my farm. I have never ever been able to 'get' this obsession some people have with giving edible treats. Seen more horses ruined by them than anything else and when I get called in to deal with 'difficult' horses the first question I ask is do they treat, never has any owner of these bolshy horses said no they don't. Frustrates the heck out of me that this simple act causes so many problems that novice horse people can't deal with. I occasionally will give my guys a treat, once in a blue moon type affair, but they would never think to be pushy over them with me, but they might be with someone who isn't horsey so it's just not allowed with mine.

 

[sandi_84]

Know just how you feel! I have told my Mum's partner Derek (as has she) so many times not to titbit the horses and he swears blind that he isn't despite there being bits of bread in the stables and the fact that we keep getting nipped! It's very frustrating but I would have though this episode would have made your Mum think again. Perhaps I can arrange for Derek to be trampled by one of ours ......

It's a bit scary to see that's for sure! I thought she'd been trampled at first because I didn't see the actual knocking over part I just heard the commotion, turned round to see mum land and roll (well done to her for remembering the tuck and roll though) and Pippa come haring towards me

I think you're making a big incident out of a little one, really. It's annoying that your mother can't see that giving the horses treats in your situation is causing problems - but as she can't then really there's nothing you can do. Not all horses are pushy over treats. But I don't think it's that big an issue, and I certainly wouldn't be considering separating/moving the horses.

I don't want to seperate them I was just forestalling anyone suggesting it really and I actually think it is a bit of a bit issue really (sorry) especially after what happened this evening.
Her horse isn't pushy, nor is my sister's but mine is a bit rude when he thinks he'll get something. He's fine with me if I treat him because he knows I'll push him away if he starts nudging for more and the likelyhood is he'll only get the one and he seems to have figured that out but with mum he still expects something from her all the time :/

Wait until everything's settled down again and then talk to your mum about how worried you were when she was knocked over, how much worse her injuries could have been and why it happened. We do give our horses treats as part of their routine (for being caught etc) but I would never walk though a field full of horses and hand out treats randomly - it's just asking for trouble!
My guess is that your mum lacks confidence around the horses and gives out treats because she wants them to like her, in fact she is going to find that they fight around her, especially if she's not giving them all treats at the same time.
Rather than asking her to stop altogether, could you ask her to only give treats at a particular time (feed time or whenever is best for you all)?
You really do need to get this sorted out before there is a serious accident.

Yes my thoughts exactly, I haven't said anything more about it except checking she was really ok when I got home (she left before I did) because I don't want it to turn into an argument but I do feel that we need to have a talk about the safety issues this sort of thing raises :/

Asking her to feed only at certain times is a much better idea, I know I can't really stop her from treating (and to be honest I wouldn't really want to, I'd love to treat Loki more often but just can't because he's a big food orientated cob and all manners go out the window if there's something tasty on offer ) but maybe I can steer her towards a safer way of doing it.

She isn't the most confident of people in general but she does enjoy being around the horses, tbh I think if she could do it she'd love having a one on one situation with Pippa and they'd get on great but obviously that wouldn't work.
I just really worry about her at times, she seems to lack a bit of common sense/ safety awareness when it comes to horses and I don't know if it's just because I've had more experience with horses or if it's just because I'm naturally the type of person that thinks of things that could go wrong and how to prevent it but sometimes I just can't understand why she can't see that what she is doing/ suggesting could be dangerous even after me pointing it out :/

 

[sandi_84]

Having expericing being told to look for a finger(little finger with beautifully manicured nail btw) in a bed which had been bitten clean off and finding it many years ago working for horse charity where visitors were allowed to feed titbits (though that was stopped) i have since had strict rule no treats by hand at all . always on floor or bucket

! OMG!
I do occasionally chuck a few carrots about the field for them and have suggested she do the same rather than feed by hand but I think she's in love with Pippa whickering at her (for food!) :/

I'd ban her from the field. I have over 50 horses here and no-one treats the horses in the field. If treats are given they are given out of the field on a one to one basis, never ever to a herd. I wouldn't care if it was my mother or a total stranger, it's not on, an accident could occur and I'm not being responsible for that. My mother however would never do that as she's more than happy to cuddle and scratch the horses, as are most people who come to my farm. I have never ever been able to 'get' this obsession some people have with giving edible treats. Seen more horses ruined by them than anything else and when I get called in to deal with 'difficult' horses the first question I ask is do they treat, never has any owner of these bolshy horses said no they don't. Frustrates the heck out of me that this simple act causes so many problems that novice horse people can't deal with. I occasionally will give my guys a treat, once in a blue moon type affair, but they would never think to be pushy over them with me, but they might be with someone who isn't horsey so it's just not allowed with mine.

I can't ban her, it's her field
See that's how I see treats for Loki, it's once in a blue moon and he never goes beyond that first gentle nudge with me because he gets backed up or moved away from me and then he leaves me alone. With other people the gentle nudge becomes an insistent regular nudge, then a push - hence mum getting headbutted and somehow avoiding a black eye :/ Treating him just isn't worth the hassle really but it took me about 3 months and 2 arguments, 1 where I actually had a shout at her (because she was still feeding him and then lying about it) before she stopped feeding him completely.

 

[mandwhy]

I agree that what she is doing is asking for trouble!

I treat my horses quite regularly though and feed them loose in the field. I treat them when I want to and they know that pestering and demanding from me will get them nowhere! Your mum could try carrying on with the treating but she needs to make sure they accept them politely, and if they get too in her face she needs to tell them to step away. Both of my girls know that a step back is a much better way to get anything out of me, and trotting at me with their ears back or getting grumpy about it (including running at each other when I am there) will result in my chasing them off and them getting nothing!

Hopefully she will think twice about it now, and I hope she isn't too bruised!

 

[Spring Feather]

I can't ban her, it's her field
See that's how I see treats for Loki, it's once in a blue moon and he never goes beyond that first gentle nudge with me because he gets backed up or moved away from me and then he leaves me alone. With other people the gentle nudge becomes an insistent regular nudge, then a push - hence mum getting headbutted and somehow avoiding a black eye :/ Treating him just isn't worth the hassle really but it took me about 3 months and 2 arguments, 1 where I actually had a shout at her (because she was still feeding him and then lying about it) before she stopped feeding him completely.

Lol! That's unfortunate then (about her owning the field I mean :smile3: Well I don't know what you can do then. I throw carrots and suchlike into my fields too, can she not do that? Or can she not take Pippa out of the field to treat her? Or maybe send her on a boot camp course! Here! I'll help her see sense :wink3:

 

[Ladyinred]

Hmm will hold my hand up and admit that we treat.

BUT we first teach ours that in order to get a treat they have to step back, that way we never get crowded. Its was quite funny the other day to see little mare sniff OH's pocket, discover he had mints and go into a rapid reverse down the field until he let her have one.

Maybe this would be an alternative if your mum refuses to give up treating, at least she would be safer and it's very easy to teach.

 

[cambrica]

Some mothers do ave 'em .... And sometimes it's the other way around!
I do sympathise with you as mine is just the same. Not so much with titbits but set in her ways and change is difficult for her. Frustrating but with well over 40 yrs experience I can't always argue.
Mum did stop giving my boy cut up apples over the stable door after he choked on one. Now she grates a piece up and mixes it in his feed so he doesn't miss out!

 

[maree t]

I think you are right to react to be honest. I had a little 13hh cob who would be damn rude if fed treats/ He was only ever fed from a bucket after a few incidents. I think they all react differently, my daughters new pony has been taught to do tricks for treats by a previous owner but is never rude or aggressive (it is actually quite cute bless him !). Others of the herd are never given treats by hand

 

[sandi_84]

I agree that what she is doing is asking for trouble!

I treat my horses quite regularly though and feed them loose in the field. I treat them when I want to and they know that pestering and demanding from me will get them nowhere! Your mum could try carrying on with the treating but she needs to make sure they accept them politely, and if they get too in her face she needs to tell them to step away. Both of my girls know that a step back is a much better way to get anything out of me, and trotting at me with their ears back or getting grumpy about it (including running at each other when I am there) will result in my chasing them off and them getting nothing!

Hopefully she will think twice about it now, and I hope she isn't too bruised!

I think encouraging her to not treat with them loose is the best way to go Her idea of chasing them off is waving her hand like the queen at them
I just want her to be safe :/

I hope so too! She's going to have a sore arm in the morning that's for sure!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Just to make it clear we do treat by hand, we have had a number of different horses, a mixture of cobs, Clydies/Shires and Appaloosas, almost all mares and have never had a problem with bargy, nipping horses. They know that is not the way to get anything other than a sharp word.

 

[sandi_84]

Lol! That's unfortunate then (about her owning the field I mean :smile3: Well I don't know what you can do then. I throw carrots and suchlike into my fields too, can she not do that? Or can she not take Pippa out of the field to treat her? Or maybe send her on a boot camp course! Here! I'll help her see sense :wink3:

Ha ha! Yes please! Can I post her by UPS? Then she can come home and start telling me off for doing things wrong
I've tried to get her to treat from the ground but she's having none of that, think I'll go for getting her to take Pippa out before treating next and see how we go with that

Hmm will hold my hand up and admit that we treat.

BUT we first teach ours that in order to get a treat they have to step back, that way we never get crowded. Its was quite funny the other day to see little mare sniff OH's pocket, discover he had mints and go into a rapid reverse down the field until he let her have one.

Maybe this would be an alternative if your mum refuses to give up treating, at least she would be safer and it's very easy to teach.

Lol at the fast reversing pony
Unfortunately I just would feel more comfortable that she was safe if she took Pippa out of the field first or treat from the ground

I think you are right to react to be honest. I had a little 13hh cob who would be damn rude if fed treats/ He was only ever fed from a bucket after a few incidents. I think they all react differently, my daughters new pony has been taught to do tricks for treats by a previous owner but is never rude or aggressive (it is actually quite cute bless him !). Others of the herd are never given treats by hand

Aye and Loki is 15hh and about 400kgs odd! So he's got a lot of shove in him :/

 

[Spring Feather]

Just to make it clear we do treat by hand, we have had a number of different horses, a mixture of cobs, Clydies/Shires and Appaloosas, almost all mares and have never had a problem with bargy, nipping horses. They know that is not the way to get anything other than a sharp word.

Because you know what you are doing. The problem comes from novice people who do this and then wonder why in the world the horse knocks them over or why the horses all fight and the human gets squooshed in the middle, and that's if they're lucky! I've seen some fly! Humans I mean, not a pretty sight when they get up and you just know they've broken something and there's blood everywhere. It's just not something novice or nervous people should be doing around horses.

 

[wyrdsister]

Oh dear! Obviously the best thing to do is convince her not to treat the horses BUT, if that doesn't work, a trick I was taught is to teach the horse 'away.' To do this, you bring in, tie up and stand beside the horse with a treat in your hand, but do not allow him to have it until he stops pestering you for it and looks away from you. At that moment, say 'away' and immediately give the treat (with the arm nearest him outstretched under his neck so that he remains looking away from you). Rinse and repeat on both sides, until you can say 'away' and he moves his head away on cue. He should, with some practice, whenever a treat appears, immediately turn his head away from you and wait for you to give him the treat. It's worked like a charm on my mugger of a youngster. She used to be horrible for pushing people around (with or without food) and this has pretty much cured her. Might be worth a try?

Glad your mum is okay

 

[sandi_84]

Oh dear! Obviously the best thing to do is convince her not to treat the horses BUT, if that doesn't work, a trick I was taught is to teach the horse 'away.' To do this, you bring in, tie up and stand beside the horse with a treat in your hand, but do not allow him to have it until he stops pestering you for it and looks away from you. At that moment, say 'away' and immediately give the treat (with the arm nearest him outstretched under his neck so that he remains looking away from you). Rinse and repeat on both sides, until you can say 'away' and he moves his head away on cue. He should, with some practice, whenever a treat appears, immediately turn his head away from you and wait for you to give him the treat. It's worked like a charm on my mugger of a youngster. She used to be horrible for pushing people around (with or without food) and this has pretty much cured her. Might be worth a try?

Glad your mum is okay

Sounds like a good trick to try, I'd give it a shot if it were just me and Loki but tbh (arg going to sound really horrible here!) I wouldn't trust her to "train" him properly or give it a go when I wasn't there It would have to be done right with correct timing etc

I feel like a right horrible person sometimes because I just feel like every time we are at the horses together I'm having to tell her not to do something dangerous etc and it's not like she's stupid or incapable or anything she just doesn't think about stuff

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Show her the pic of my leg and tell her that could easily happen if she gets knocked again when she has horses coming at her for treats. Pretty sobering, I'd say! I wasn't giving treats but just goes to show that accidents happen.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Because you know what you are doing. The problem comes from novice people who do this and then wonder why in the world the horse knocks them over or why the horses all fight and the human gets squooshed in the middle, and that's if they're lucky! I've seen some fly! Humans I mean, not a pretty sight when they get up and you just know they've broken something and there's blood everywhere. It's just not something novice or nervous people should be doing around horses.

Oh yes, horses soon realise who they can push the boundaries with and who they can't.
We were novices once though but had very good teachers who would not allow us to do anything even vaguely dangerous on the ground. In fact we still (over 40 yrs on) quote 'Mrs B' when talking about the daft things that some people just don't seem to realise are dangerous.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Cant understand the obsession some people have feeding horses treats in the field, its just crazy you need to stop her what if one of your horses kicked the other really badly how would she feel then.

 

[sandi_84]

Show her the pic of my leg and tell her that could easily happen if she gets knocked again when she has horses coming at her for treats. Pretty sobering, I'd say! I wasn't giving treats but just goes to show that accidents happen.

I couldn't even look at that first pic! good idea though, shock tactics!
How are you getting on by the way? Hope your leg is feeling better!

Cant understand the obsession some people have feeding horses treats in the field, its just crazy you need to stop her what if one of your horses kicked the other really badly how would she feel then.

I wonder sometimes if she makes the corrolation between what she's doing and the reaction that it induces :/

 

[Foxford]

If she won't stop for her own sake, tell her to stop for the horses.

My friends horse did 5 months box rest with a broken leg thanks to another horse who wanted a treat and kicked out to make sure he was 1st to the gate.

 

[eahotson]

She is an adult and as such must make her own decisions and take the responsibility for them.You could try explaining calmly the almost certain results of her actions which are serious injury or even death.She has had a warning.! From the horse actually.You could ask her to consider the impact of her injury/death on her family, friends and her horses.After that the decision is hers.You can not take responsibility for her actions. I may sound hard but thats the way it is.We had an older (old actually!) man in our yard who bought a wildly unsuitable horse to ride.We all tried to warn/advise/counsel as we could see the probable consequences of all this.He ignored us, as was his right actually.He was an adult, in his right mind, it was his money and his horse.He has three seripous falls, the last one very serious indeed.He was wearing a well fitting hat and a body protector and it was in the school as even he wasn't stupid enough to ride the horse out.The hat and body protector saved his life I am sure.The horse has now been sold and he has learned from his mistakes albeit the hard way.His choice, his responsibility.

 

[nix123]

Having expericing being told to look for a finger(little finger with beautifully manicured nail btw) in a bed which had been bitten clean off and finding it many years ago working for horse charity where visitors were allowed to feed titbits (though that was stopped) i have since had strict rule no treats by hand at all . always on floor or bucket

OMG. UUrrgh!! Just out of interest what colour was the nail varnish?? Did they manage to sew it back on?

Seriously though i would tell her how worried you are, but at the end of the day she'll do what she wants to do. It's a hard one to sort out.

 

[ridefast]

Gosh that's awkward. I find it very annoying when people treat randomly. Fortunately everyone that knows me knows to ask if they can treat my horse, but I have a friend who I used to share fields with, she would come into the field and throw carrots and apples around, then if the horses followed her she would be giving them pony nuts and treats etc, teaching them to follow her and push her! I didn't realise at first but she kept complaining that my horses were being pushy when she tried to poo pick. They never did it with me and it wasn't until I turned up at the same time as she that I realised what was going on. Silly thing is this woman is in her 50s and had horses her whole life, but didn't seem to realise what she was doing! I only treat my one cob if she's learning something new, as she's very food motivated and laid back about everything else it's the only way to get her to realise something is fun, once she's got the positive reinforcement in her head about the new task I stop treating again and she continues to enjoy it. I don't treat the others as they don't need them. I think it's a very human thing to want to treat horses, it makes us feel good about ourselves. I'm not sure what you can do about your mum, if getting knocked over didn't stop her I can't see what will...

 

[WandaMare]

I can't understand why anyone would put themselves and the horses at risk of serious injury giving treats to loose horses.

I think you are being too nice, you need to be tougher with your mum and not feel guilty. Ask her why she does it and make her think properly about it. You could save her or someone else from a serious accident.

 

[Archangel]

You need to get your mother under control. I am sure there is some Parelli game that you can use to sort her out - something like getting a carrot stick and whacking her with it every time she goes for the treat bag. Make her back up (this is your mother still by the way) when you say and keep backing her up until she is out of the field.

Joking apart, she just needs to stop. Did she give you treats every time you cried when you were a kid? Bet she didn't!

 

[AmyMay]

Perhaps she'd be better off in a petting zoo. Silly woman.